Russia threatens U.S. missile sites in Europe

[olp1fan]

This is only 1/3 of the article, but you tell them Russia ...Russia clearly does not deserve to have missiles pointed at them by NATO

or are we still in cold war mode?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/11/23/russia-us-missile-sites.html

If Washington continues to ignore Russia's demands about a proposed U.S. missile shield in Europe, Russia will deploy new missiles aimed at it and put arms control on hold, President Dmitry Medvedev said Wednesday.

The tough statement reflected a growing strain in U.S.-Russian ties, despite President Barack Obama's campaign to "reset" American relations with the Kremlin, which were strained by years of tensions over U.S. foreign policy and the 2008 Russian-Georgian war.

Medvedev said he still hopes for a deal on the U.S. missile shield, but he strongly accused the U.S. and its NATO allies of ignoring Russia's worries.

The U.S. has repeatedly assured Russia that its proposed missile defence system wouldn't be directed against Russia's nuclear forces, but Moscow has demanded legally binding assurances, and Medvedev did that again on Wednesday.

He warned that Russia will station missiles in its westernmost Kaliningrad region and other areas, if the U.S. continues its plans without giving Russia firm legal guarantees that the shield isn't directed at its nuclear forces.

The U.S. missile defence dispute has long tarnished ties between Moscow and Washington. The Obama administration says the shield is needed to fend off a potential threat from Iran, but Russia fears that it could erode the deterrent potential of its nuclear forces.

"If our partners tackle the issue of taking our legitimate security interests into account in an honest and responsible way, I'm sure we will be able to come to an agreement," Medvedev said. "But if they offer us to 'co-operate,' or, to say it honestly, work against our own interests, we won't be able to reach common ground."

[Post To The Left]

I don't get the legal contract demand. I mean so they get a legal contract that says the US won't attack them with a nuclear strike then when America A-Bombs Russia back to the stone age what the surviving 100 or so Russians are going to go the International court and press charges?? Seems ridiculous.

And its not just the Russian even the whole premise of the missile shield is flawed. So if Iran develops nuclear weapons, and that's a big IF, why would they attack America when they knew the States have the capability to totally destroy their nation? I don't care if you're a dictator or some jihad loving mullah it just doesn't make sense launch an attack on a country when you know it will not only destroy you but would involve erasing your entire nation off the map.

Now if Iran develops nuclear weapons, big IF again, then you might have an argument that the nuclear weapons could fall into terrorist hands but then what use is a missile shield against a bomb smuggled into America or a friendly country?

[olp1fan]

Now if Iran develops nuclear weapons, big IF again, then you might have an argument that the nuclear weapons could fall into terrorist hands but then what use is a missile shield against a bomb smuggled into America or a friendly country?

It was never about Iran, the missile shield is really being built to keep the Russian and Chinese influence down

[Guest Derek L]

It was never about Iran, the missile shield is really being built to keep the Russian and Chinese influence down

I have several friends/former colleagues ,that at varying times, have worked (through both Boeing & Raytheon) on the THAAD and SM-3 & SM-6 projects, and neither of which was intended to counter a Russian or Chinese nuclear first strike……….but hey, don’t listen to me………count the projected number of ICBM/SLBM and MIRVs deployed by the Russians and Chinese and contrast that with the number of interceptors both deployed and on order.

[bush_cheney2004]

This is just Act III....the Rooskies pissed their pants when Reagan deployed Pershing 2's and ALCMs, then lost it again when SDI ("Star Wars") technology was in development (e.g. Brilliant Pebbles).

Isn't applied physics fun!!

[Guest Derek L]

This is just Act III....the Rooskies pissed their pants when Reagan deployed Pershing 2's and ALCMs, then lost it again when SDI ("Star Wars") technology was in development (e.g. Brilliant Pebbles).

Isn't applied physics fun!!

Indeed, and this time, we’re even telling them it’s not deployed against them………..Even paranoids have enemies

A Gathering of Eagles was on tv the other night, I have to admit some feelings of nostalgia.........

[olp1fan]

I have several friends/former colleagues ,that at varying times, have worked (through both Boeing & Raytheon) on the THAAD and SM-3 & SM-6 projects, and neither of which was intended to counter a Russian or Chinese nuclear first strike……….but hey, don’t listen to me………count the projected number of ICBM/SLBM and MIRVs deployed by the Russians and Chinese and contrast that with the number of interceptors both deployed and on order.

yeah totally am going by what your friends and colleagues say

you couldn't possibly be making anything up to make a point

[olp1fan]

This is just Act III....the Rooskies pissed their pants when Reagan deployed Pershing 2's and ALCMs, then lost it again when SDI ("Star Wars") technology was in development (e.g. Brilliant Pebbles).

Isn't applied physics fun!!

Its the west who should be pissing their pants now

Putin ain't no bitch like Obama

Edited November 24, 2011 by olp1fan

[Guest Derek L]

yeah totally am going by what your friends and colleagues say

you couldn't possibly be making anything up to make a point

but hey, don’t listen to me………count the projected number of ICBM/SLBM and MIRVs deployed by the Russians and Chinese and contrast that with the number of interceptors both deployed and on order.

Grade 3 math.....

[Bonam]

Grade 3 math.....

Too many people fail at it, along with grade 3 reading. When they try to apply it in college or on the job. That's why there's so much unemployment, no one wants to hire a bunch of idiots that can't add two and two.

[Guest Derek L]

Too many people fail at it, along with grade 3 reading. When they try to apply it in college or on the job. That's why there's so much unemployment, no one wants to hire a bunch of idiots that can't add two and two.

In addition, I think common sense and elementary reasoning are also lacking……Both by the Russian government and olp1fan.

[Wild Bill]

And its not just the Russian even the whole premise of the missile shield is flawed. So if Iran develops nuclear weapons, and that's a big IF, why would they attack America when they knew the States have the capability to totally destroy their nation? I don't care if you're a dictator or some jihad loving mullah it just doesn't make sense launch an attack on a country when you know it will not only destroy you but would involve erasing your entire nation off the map.

It's just not that simple, I'm afraid. First off, Iran would not likely attack America. They would nuke Israel! One missile with a fair sized nuke and Israel is GONE! No retaliatory strike, no nuthin'! True, it would also decimate the Palestinians but since when has Iran or any other Arab country done anything significant for them anyway, except give them weapons to attack Israel.

Then what? Who is going to retaliate and nuke Iran? Not Russia or China! They have too much money invested in that country. That leaves France, Britain and the USA. Would they want to take the responsibility for killing perhaps millions of Iranian citizens who had no part in the decision of their rulers? After all, it's not as if Iran holds free elections.

No, retaliatory nukes are not very likely. It is more probable that another UN military coalition would invade Iran to force a regime change and throw the ayatollahs out, as they did with Saddam in Iraq. To the ayatollahs, this would be a cheap price! They take the long view. In 20 or 40 years politics can change greatly and so would the world's political priorities. They might well regain power!

So to wipe Israel from the face of the earth the ayatollahs ruling Iran would have to trade significant damage and possible but not necessarily permanent ouster. Some of their own spokespeople have already floated this idea as well worth it!

Second, in that area of the world it would be very easy to stage a fake coup and have a phony group seize control of the nukes. They fire a few missiles at Israel and accomplish their long desired goal. Afterwards, the Iranian government denounces them as madmen and denies any complicity.

What would America and perhaps other western countries do in that scenario?

There are lots of other possibilities but I'm sure you get the idea. Most of all, however, we haven't even touched on perhaps the most important factor - who would be the American president in office during such a crisis?

We already saw the differences between Clinton and both Bushes in handling terrorist attacks on the USA.

Obama is quite different than George W. If you were one of those Ayatollahs, which president would you want to face in such a situation?

[bush_cheney2004]

...So to wipe Israel from the face of the earth the ayatollahs ruling Iran would have to trade significant damage and possible but not necessarily permanent ouster. Some of their own spokespeople have already floated this idea as well worth it!

Agreed...the very foundation of the ruling clerics in Iran is based on opposition to Israel/Western interests. They have to have such extreme and absurd positions just to keep some domestic support. Iran's present government has no future without the Israeli/American bogeymen.

[olp1fan]

Iran will not nuke anybody

And I am the dumb one here?!!

Edited November 24, 2011 by olp1fan

[olp1fan]

Grade 3 math.....

How am I supposed to know your numbers are accurate?

guess what? my colleagues says your colleagues are full of shit

this is the net, how do i know you arent some chubby star trekkie posing as a vet?

the math would matter only if the variables are substantiated

[Guest Derek L]

Agreed...the very foundation of the ruling clerics in Iran is based on opposition to Israel/Western interests. They have to have such extreme and absurd positions just to keep some domestic support. Iran's present government has no future without the Israeli/American bogeymen.

Much like the Soviet Union having the capitalist boogeyman………eventually those waiting in lines for bread and toilet paper will wonder if their’s is truly the right path…

[olp1fan]

Much like the Soviet Union having the capitalist boogeyman………eventually those waiting in lines for bread and toilet paper will wonder if their’s is truly the right path…

Much like how Soviet/ Russia has been the boogymen of North america since the end of ww2

Edited November 24, 2011 by olp1fan

[Guest Derek L]

How am I supposed to know your numbers are accurate?

guess what? my colleagues says your colleagues are full of shit

this is the net, how do i know you arent some chubby star trekkie posing as a vet?

the math would matter only if the variables are substantiated

I always preferred Battlestar Galactica...........

[Guest Derek L]

Much like how Soviet/ Russia has been the boogymen of North america since the end of ww2

Pssst...Communism failed and the West won the arms race

[bush_cheney2004]

Much like how Soviet/ Russia has been the boogymen of North america since the end of ww2

Yea...so scary they had to build a wall to keep people there, while the Americans have to build walls to keep people out.

[olp1fan]

Yea...so scary they had to build a wall to keep people there, while the Americans have to build walls to keep people out.

Meh, its just poor Mexicans that are sneaking past your borders

No other country really would want them

Edited November 24, 2011 by olp1fan

[dre]

Obama is quite different than George W. If you were one of those Ayatollahs, which president would you want to face in such a situation?

No question. Bush! Mr Bush removed Saddam Hussein... Irans most bitter enemy and a guy that waged brutal wars against Iran over realestate and butchered many thousands of Iranians. He removed the biggest historical check on Iranian influence in the region and replaced the bathists with a Shia majority democray based on Islamic law.

[olp1fan]

Pssst...Communism failed and the West won the arms race

And 2 decades later capitalism is taking a hit worldwide

[Guest Derek L]

Yea...so scary they had to build a wall to keep people there, while the Americans have to build walls to keep people out.

And no thread about Communism and Star Wars would be complete with Ronnie Ray-guns

[Wild Bill]

Iran will not nuke anybody

And I am the dumb one here?!!

Well, when you make a blanket declaration with nothing to back it up, after others have presented a lot of evidence, what should we think?