Long-gun registry to be shot down Thursday

[Topaz]

So the Tories are getting rid of the registry which cost millions and millions to create and they want to destroy it so the next seating government can't bring it back. Now that's a waste of money. I do think the provinces are going to create one of their own and right now all the police have to do is call up the guns stores and ask if a certain person has ever bought a gun. Owners still have to have a license to buy one but, what about the owners that had one before that law came into being. I, also, wonder if any police have downloaded the registry list that they have used?

[Guest Derek L]

So the Tories are getting rid of the registry which cost millions and millions to create and they want to destroy it so the next seating government can't bring it back. Now that's a waste of money. I do think the provinces are going to create one of their own and right now all the police have to do is call up the guns stores and ask if a certain person has ever bought a gun. Owners still have to have a license to buy one but, what about the owners that had one before that law came into being. I, also, wonder if any police have downloaded the registry list that they have used?

The day it comes into law, any prior registry will be useless, since hundreds of thousands of guns (if not millions) that were not registered will now be “legal”………also, expect the sales of pre-owned, formerly unregistered firearms, to skyrocket……….many, many, many guns will be changing hands shortly…….The already useless gun registry, if kept, will be even more useless.

[Dithers]

I agree with scrapping the registry. Colossal waste of money.

Now let's get serious and ban firearms altogether.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Dithers

[Battletoads]

The day it comes into law, any prior registry will be useless, since hundreds of thousands of guns (if not millions) that were not registered will now be “legal”………also, expect the sales of pre-owned, formerly unregistered firearms, to skyrocket……….many, many, many guns will be changing hands shortly…….The already useless gun registry, if kept, will be even more useless.

That's to bad for gun nuts, seeing as the next government will have to make the new registry even more invasive in order to ensure its effectiveness.

[Guest Derek L]

That's to bad for gun nuts, seeing as the next government will have to make the new registry even more invasive in order to ensure its effectiveness.

And the “next registry” will be even more ineffective than the current one for the reasons I‘ve outlined….So you advocate the government wasting more money?

[ToadBrother]

How is that defined? Administrative.

Take the lowered drinking and driving limits in BC. Now actual legal limits for blood-alcohol are defined by the Criminal Code, and purely within the purview of the Federal Government. However, BC, like all the provinces, is responsible for issuing drivers licenses, and can thus effectively lower the legal limit by modifying the regulatory framework that defines how one can possess a drivers license, or have it removed or suspended.

I can see one route by which a province might create the regulatory framework for long gun control. For instance, it might set up a set of regulations surrounding hunting licenses that require that any firearm used for hunting on Crown Land being registered. Hypothetically, at least, this could be extended even to farmers for predator control. It would certainly be of more limited scope than Federal rules, because the Feds have the power to amend the Criminal Code and similar legislation for direct gun control rules, whereas the provinces have to frame it strictly within the powers that they constitutionally possess.

Edited October 26, 2011 by ToadBrother

[Guest Derek L]

Take the lowered drinking and driving limits in BC. Now actual legal limits for blood-alcohol are defined by the Criminal Code, and purely within the purview of the Federal Government. However, BC, like all the provinces, is responsible for issuing drivers licenses, and can thus effectively lower the legal limit by modifying the regulatory framework that defines how one can possess a drivers license, or have it removed or suspended.

I can see one route by which a province might create the regulatory framework for long gun control. For instance, it might set up a set of regulations surrounding hunting licenses that require that any firearm used for hunting on Crown Land being registered. Hypothetically, at least, this could be extended even to farmers for predator control. It would certainly be of more limited scope than Federal rules, because the Feds have the power to amend the Criminal Code and similar legislation for direct gun control rules, whereas the provinces have to frame it strictly within the powers that they constitutionally possess.

That would be even less effective than the past registry………..Ok, I’ll register my 42 year old hunting rifle, and my double barrelled duck gun to cover myself for hunting……but my various other rifles, tactical shotguns and Ruger mini 14 & 30 will be unregistered…..

[ToadBrother]

That would be even less effective than the past registry………..Ok, I’ll register my 42 year old hunting rifle, and my double barrelled duck gun to cover myself for hunting……but my various other rifles, tactical shotguns and Ruger mini 14 & 30 will be unregistered…..

Oh, I didn't say it would be all that effective, but some provinces certainly could get some political mileage out harassing hunters and farmers, in the name of "gun crime control". But, of course, the Government is about to screw over those plans to some degree because it's going to wipe out the existing database. Those provinces had hoped that their own gun registries could start with what the Feds had collected, and now it looks like they're on their own, with only a limited regulatory framework in which to try to rebuild the registry.

[Battletoads]

And the “next registry” will be even more ineffective than the current one for the reasons I‘ve outlined….So you advocate the government wasting more money?

Oh I'd say though the use of permanent gun bans and mandatory minimum sentences on people who failed to register their weapons that the next registry could be made effective.

[Guest Derek L]

Oh, I didn't say it would be all that effective, but some provinces certainly could get some political mileage out harassing hunters and farmers, in the name of "gun crime control". But, of course, the Government is about to screw over those plans to some degree because it's going to wipe out the existing database. Those provinces had hoped that their own gun registries could start with what the Feds had collected, and now it looks like they're on their own, with only a limited regulatory framework in which to try to rebuild the registry.

I don’t know, even at the provincial level, a potential backlash against a political party could still sting in terms of seats/votes……..unlike many political hot potatoes, this isn’t really an East vs. West, City vs. rural, rich vs. poor or even a Conservative vs. NDP vs. Liberal issue……Guns owners are a wide swath…..As I’m sure it’s been said before, the “government” already knows whom owns legal guns with the PAL/RPAL database (Some are calling for that to be next), and they also already know who owns handguns/Semi- auto, “tacticool” guns with the already existing registry………..Kind of safe to assume, that a person has a PAL/RPAL, and registered handguns etc, there’s likely a rifle or shotgun in the house…….

[Guest Derek L]

Oh I'd say though the use of permanent gun bans and mandatory minimum sentences on people who failed to register their weapons that the next registry could be made effective.

You mean like Prohibition in the states and/or our current drug laws? That sounds like a perfect model to emulate

[Battletoads]

You mean like Prohibition in the states and/or our current drug laws? That sounds like a perfect model to emulate

Speaking of drugs, you must be on some good ones because I can't seem to locate any mention of banning guns in my post...

Nope, seem I was just talking about cracking down on people who own illegal weapons. By your response it would seem that you think that to be a bad idea.

[Guest Derek L]

Speaking of drugs, you must be on some good ones because I can't seem to locate any mention of banning guns in my post...

Nope, seem I was just talking about cracking down on people who own illegal weapons. By your response it would seem that you think that to be a bad idea.

Oh I'd say though the use of permanent gun bans and mandatory minimum sentences on people who failed to register their weapons that the next registry could be made effective.

[Battletoads]

Permanent gun bans for criminals = prohibition?

What are you smoking and where can I buy some?

[Guest Derek L]

Permanent gun bans for criminals = prohibition?

What are you smoking and where can I buy some?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/prohibition

pro·hi·bi·tion (pr-bshn)

n.

1. The act of prohibiting or the condition of being prohibited.

2. A law, order, or decree that forbids something.

[Guest Derek L]

Permanent gun bans for criminals = prohibition?

What are you smoking and where can I buy some?

Just to clarify, are you stating that a permanent ban on owning firearms and jail currently deters gun crime with the registry in place?

[Battletoads]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/prohibition

So you are saying that banning criminals from owning guns is akin to prohibition?

Edited October 27, 2011 by Battletoads

[Guest Derek L]

So your are saying that banning criminals from owning guns is akin to prohibition?

Yup……….criminals rely on illegally attained firearms………..The registry doesn’t prevent this.

So what makes you think your registry will work? We currently have lifetime/10 year bans on legal ownership, fines and prison sentences for violent crime…….Has the current registry prevented gun crime with illegal guns via their illegal owners?

Did the laws against the distribution of alcohol stop Al Capone?

[Battletoads]

Just to clarify, are you stating that a permanent ban on owning firearms and jail currently deters gun crime with the registry in place?

I advise you to re-read my posts, because I've said nothing about current penalties.

[Guest Derek L]

I advise you to re-read my posts, because I've said nothing about current penalties.

That's to bad for gun nuts, seeing as the next government will have to make the new registry even more invasive in order to ensure its effectiveness.

[Battletoads]

Yup……….criminals rely on illegally attained firearms………..The registry doesn’t prevent this.

So what makes you think your registry will work? We currently have lifetime/10 year bans on legal ownership, fines and prison sentences for violent crime…….Has the current registry prevented gun crime with illegal guns via their illegal owners?

Did the laws against the distribution of alcohol stop Al Capone?

Illegal guns come from somewhere, obviously any law that registers firearms would have to come in conjunction with another law that cracks down on the sources of illegal weapons. In other words, this current registry was only a half measure that didn't go far enough.

Did the laws against the distribution of alcohol stop Al Capone?

I'd say the time he spent in Alcatraz was at least a minor distraction

[Battletoads]

"That's to bad for gun nuts, seeing as the next government will have to make the new registry even more invasive in order to ensure its effectiveness."

Still don't see any reference to penalties...

Do you actually have an argument or are you just going to highlight parts of my posts and claim I said something I didn't?

[Guest Derek L]

Illegal guns come from somewhere, obviously any law that registers firearms would have to come in conjunction with another law that cracks down on the sources of illegal weapons. In other words, this current registry was only a half measure that didn't go far enough.

Do you have evidence suggesting that illegal guns, used in Canada, where once legal? If so, what would the gun registry do to prevent the theft of legal firearms?

I'd say the time he spent in Alcatraz was at least a minor distraction

Did the government catch all bootleggers? Did prohibition (of alcohol) reduce crime in the States? Do our current drug laws, prevent drug related crimes?

Again, how does the current (or your future) long gun registry prevent crime?

Still don't see any reference to penalties...

Do you actually have an argument or are you just going to highlight parts of my posts and claim I said something I didn't?

You alluded to your future registry being “even more invasive”……….More invasive than what?

[Battletoads]

Do you have evidence suggesting that illegal guns, used in Canada, where once legal? If so, what would the gun registry do to prevent the theft of legal firearms?

I didn't say anything about what the source was. Again do you have a real argument or are you just going keep spouting this BS?

Did the government catch all bootleggers?

So unless something can be 100% prevented it shouldn't be illegal?

Did prohibition (of alcohol) reduce crime in the States?

When you can brew guns in your bathtub the comparison between 1920's America alcohol laws and 2011 Canadian gun laws may have a sliver of validity.

Do our current drug laws, prevent drug related crimes?

So you're for the legalization of drugs?

Again, how does the current (or your future) long gun registry prevent crime?

How would making it easier to trace a weapons reduce crime? Maybe gun owners would stop selling their guns illegally if they knew they'd be easily traced back to them?

You alluded to your future registry being “even more invasive”……….More invasive than what?

The current registry. Do you really need me to spell something that simple out for you?

[Guest Derek L]

I didn't say anything about what the source was. Again do you have a real argument or are you just going keep spouting this BS?

Ok, that makes it simple then……..how does the gun registry prevent gun related crime?

So unless something can be 100% prevented it shouldn't be illegal?

What percentage of gun crime did the current registry prevent?

When you can brew guns in your bathtub the comparison between 1920's America alcohol laws and 2011 Canadian gun laws may have a sliver of validity.

Well it is an apples and oranges comparison, since I amongst many other owners, have firearms that are decades, and in some cases, over a century old (Winchester ‘94)……..A gun will last longer than bathtub gin……….So how is the gun registry preventing gun crime with antique firearms?

So you're for the legalization of drugs?

Yup

How would making it easier to trace a weapons reduce crime? Maybe gun owners would stop selling their guns illegally if they knew they'd be easily traced back to them?

Do you have proof that there is some trend of legal gun owners selling their guns illegally to criminals?

The current registry. Do you really need me to spell something that simple out for you?

So you admit the current registry is invasive?