Long-gun registry to be shot down Thursday

[Guest Derek L]

Actually both those things used to be commonplace, especially here in Ontario

You had to register to buy booze and records were kept of what was bought, they could deny you next time you came in saying you have too much, you regd to get a drivers licence which would allow you to put booze in the trunk. Anywhere else and you were in violation of the law.

When was that? During Prohibition in the States?

[Guest Derek L]

You don't want to register your guns because you don't want the police and government to know what you have. Cars, boats, babies, marriages, pets, they're all fine. But hands off the guns. Call it what it is.

Since you didn’t address me in your post, I won’t respond to the entire thing…….I don’t have to register my Car, pet or boat if I‘m not using them on public land…..By that standard, I shouldn’t be required to register any of my firearms if they are stored at home and I only use them at private clubs and hunt on private land…..Babies? Has the government ever prevented someone from having a child? Marriage? In BC, you’re good to go if you’re an adult and not already married….Of course, there are no prerequisites for living common-law….

As for not wanting the police/government to know what I own? You’re god-damned right! It’s no more the government’s business knowing what firearms I own legally after obtaining a licence, then it is them knowing if my wife and I enjoy having drinks/smoking dope or having wild swingers sex parties in the privacy of our own home…..If we’re adults, not disturbing anyone, no children are in danger and we don’t require public subsidy for our hobby/habit/addiction, it’s nobodies business, especially the Government.

Government role is to serve the people, not the inverse!

[Guest Derek L]

Firebombs left ‘no choice,’ homeowner tells gun trial

Ian Thomson was jolted awake at 6:37 a.m. by the sound of explosions; outside his secluded farmhouse, three masked men were hurling fire bombs at his house while one bellowed: “Are you ready to die?”

Mr. Thomson was not.

A former firearms instructor, he instead called out a warning, took one of his several pistols, marched outside in his underwear and fired one shot into the ground and two into the trees in the direction of the men, who scurried away.

He then called 911 and waited more than 10 minutes for police while using a garden hose to douse flames lapping up his front veranda, his .38-calibre snub-nose stuffed into his sagging underwear.

The officers did not bring him salvation, however. Mr. Thomson was soon arrested and charged with four gun offenses.

On Monday, after becoming the focus of a national debate over the right of Canadians to defend themselves and the government’s attitude toward gun ownership, Mr. Thomson finally had his date in court.

Why didn’t the registry prevent this? Where were the police? What could have happened if Mr. Thomson wasn’t armed? Would his house have burnt down?

Now that the LGR “debate” is nearly over, I suggest the anti-gun crowd braces themselves for the next “debates”……Concealed Carry, doing away with the restricted and prohibited firearm’s registry and the Castle defence implemented into the Criminal Code.

[jbg]

Firebombs left ‘no choice,’ homeowner tells gun trial

Why didn’t the registry prevent this? Where were the police? What could have happened if Mr. Thomson wasn’t armed? Would his house have burnt down?

I think you're siding with the capitalist running dog pigs, the 1% against the 99%. Those people Thomson wanted to kill were the footsoldiers of the revolutionary working class.

[Guest Derek L]

I think you're siding with the capitalist running dog pigs, the 1% against the 99%. Those people Thomson wanted to kill were the footsoldiers of the revolutionary working class.

Indeed…….He might be buggered on the storage laws though…….38 seconds to be woken up, run to and open his safe, then load a .38 (I’m assuming a wheel gun) would be pretty impressive…………If he feared predatory animals in his area, he could have legally kept a rifle or shotgun at the ready……….

[eyeball]

The attack appears linked to a dispute with a neighbour that had been simmering for several years. When the neighbour’s chickens started coming onto his property, he warned his neighbours and then shot and killed a rooster, court heard.

What is it about chickens anyway? They sure seem to be linked to a lot of shootings these days.

[eyeball]

As for not wanting the police/government to know what I own? You’re god-damned right! It’s no more the government’s business knowing what firearms I own legally after obtaining a licence, then it is them knowing if my wife and I enjoy having drinks/smoking dope or having wild swingers sex parties in the privacy of our own home…..If we’re adults, not disturbing anyone, no children are in danger and we don’t require public subsidy for our hobby/habit/addiction, it’s nobodies business, especially the Government.

Now that the LGR “debate” is nearly over, I suggest the anti-gun crowd braces themselves for the next “debates”……Concealed Carry, doing away with the restricted and prohibited firearm’s registry and the Castle defence implemented into the Criminal Code.

Now that freedom reigns supreme don't forget to debate the need to own guns to deter the "god-damned" police/government from crawling all over the people's backs - you know, for doing the other things you like indulging in. Other than joining the arms race, to keep up with the Jones', the best reason I can think of for wanting to acquire a gun in the brave new world of Harperland is to keep Harper off my god-damned back.

Let me guess, the irony escapes you.

Edited February 1, 2012 by eyeball

[Guest Derek L]

What is it about chickens anyway? They sure seem to be linked to a lot of shootings these days.

Christ only knows………In our previous home, one of the neighbour’s use to walk his dog early in the mornings and let it shit all over our front lawn…….I never felt compelled to shoot the dog or it’s owner , but I did start cleaning it up and storing it in a Safeway bag…….After a week or so, and topping it up with some of my two dog’s crap, stuffed the bag in their mail box……..No more dog crap on my front lawn…….

[Guest Derek L]

Now that freedom reigns supreme don't forget to debate the need to own guns to deter the "god-damned" police/government from crawling all over the people's backs - you know, for doing the other things you like indulging in. Other than joining the arms race, to keep up with the Jones', the best reason I can think of for wanting to acquire a gun in the brave new world of Harperland is to keep Harper off my god-damned back.

Let me guess, the irony escapes you.

I’m a member, donator and vote for the party, but, I’m not so partisan that I blindly agree with their entire platform/polices/manifesto etc………I’ve felt a sense of relief over the last couple years, as the social conservative wing has slowly lost influence, and is gradually being gagged and caged.

[Wild Bill]

Well, gee.. thanks "huh". I have nothing to say about this. Probably because you can't hear anything besides the fingers you've wedged firmly in your ears. If you really cared why the RCMP finds the registry effective, you would read their arguments. That you don't care what the police themselves have to say about the program just goes to show that you're not actually concerned with hearing all sides. They're kind of an important party to this issue. Like I said, people can argue that we're not getting value for our tax dollars in the registry, but what I take issue with are people that contradict the RCMP and Police Chiefs' about the usefulness and effectiveness of the program. Just because something is useful and effective, doesn't mean we can or should fund it. I'm sure having all of the best and most modern military hardware would be useful and effective too. In any case, the information they provided indicates that the registry was an important part of their operations and served an important function. Suck it up and just say you don't give a crap how useful it is. You don't want to register your guns because you don't want the police and government to know what you have. Cars, boats, babies, marriages, pets, they're all fine. But hands off the guns. Call it what it is.

I think you may have missed the point, CC. It's not that so many of us refuse to hear the arguments of the RCMP and many police chiefs. It's that we have heard this one note many times and we simply don't believe them!

There have been so many scandals with the RCMP and politics, going back to the petit gar from Shawinigan, that a large number of people don't believe there isn't politics behind the RCMP stand.

Also and perhaps even more pertinent, many of us "deniers" have a view of the typical police mindset that says a policeman will often want to both obtain and hang on to ANY tool, no matter how ineffective or inefficient it might be. Why not? They don't have to care about that part of the equation! If it works once in a million times and costs a billion or two, it's still a plus for them.

Moreover, there's always that belief that the problem is not with a bad law or one that was written clumsily. Just give a cop a bigger club! If it still doesn't work, give him an even bigger one! For a case in point at the futility of such thinking, I cite the incredible lack of success with the war on drugs, going on for almost a hundred years!

Finally, has anyone ever heard the RCMP spokespeople defend the details of their stand? In debates like those right here on MLW people have easily torn their stand to shreds. Surely there must be some official rebuttal? Once again, I'm a techie. If something can't be shown to actually WORK then it's just BS!

Frankly, to most of us who don't see the value of the Liberal gun registry, listening to someone defend it, particularly with quotes from the RCMP, is like listening to someone use the Bible in an evolution argument. So while I'll admit sometimes you are answered with rudeness you should understand the frustration of those being rude!

[guyser]

When was that? During Prohibition in the States?

Ontario into the 1960's

[guyser]

Since you didn’t address me in your post, I won’t respond to the entire thing…….I don’t have to register my Car, pet or boat if I‘m not using them on public land…..

Aside from your pet, the other two are already registered.

Not sure why folks keep making this mistake.

[eyeball]

In the meantime, it's good to see there are experts in the UK trying to address the issue that prompted the need for better gun control here in Canada; guns in the hands of people stricken with mental illness.

Doctors have agreed to breach their duty of medical confidentiality to patients who own guns if they fear they have become so seriously mentally ill they may use their weapons on themselves or the public, the Guardian has learned.

Derrick Bird’s shooting spree (that) killed 12 people and injured 11 others reinforced calls for patient confidentiality to be waived in some cases.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/14/gps-mental-health-gun-owners

A big problem here in Canada of course is even getting people to seek medical help if they become mentally ill. Mental illness was already badly under-discussed in our society because of the stigma, shame, fear and ignorance associated with it - very much like what lepers once faced in fact. Now that gun advocates and owners have so firmly associated this disease with criminality they'll probably be even less inclined to seek help if they need it.

Our politicians should be deeply ashamed of themselves for having allowed and encouraged this issue to develop the way it has.

Edited February 1, 2012 by eyeball

[Guest Derek L]

Aside from your pet, the other two are already registered.

Not sure why folks keep making this mistake.

I’ve got a 14ft aluminium boat that I bought at a garage sale several years ago……..I never filled out any form of registration for it…….And if my wife allowed me to purchase a new Polaris quad, in BC, I’m not required to insure/register it if I’m not using it on forestry roads……..

Edited February 1, 2012 by Derek L

[Guest Derek L]

In the meantime, it's good to see there are experts in the UK trying to address the issue that prompted the need for better gun control here in Canada; guns in the hands of people stricken with mental illness.

A big problem here in Canada of course is even getting people to seek medical help if they become mentally ill. Mental illness was already badly under-discussed in our society because of the stigma, shame, fear and ignorance associated with it - very much like what lepers once faced in fact. Now that gun advocates and owners have so firmly associated this disease with criminality they'll probably be even less inclined to seek help if they need it.

Our politicians should be deeply ashamed of themselves for having allowed and encouraged this issue to develop the way it has.

I have no problem with that………A doctor can report a patient that shouldn’t be driving……..If the patient continues driving, their licence and/or insurance can be revoked………If a gun owner develops mental illness, revoke their PAL/RPAL. That’s fair.

[guyser]

Ive got a 14ft aluminium boat that I bought at a garage sale several years ago……..I never filled out any form of registration for it…….

Thats fine, it was registered before and still remains as registered to the former owner, or former owner before that.

Best hope someone doesnt come and claim it, since you cannot prove ownership.

And if my wife allowed me to purchase a new Polaris quad, in BC, Im not required to insure/register it if Im not using it on forestry roads……..

YEs you are, implemented sometime in 2010.

From the press release...

All ORVs will require registration and licensing at time of sale and re-sale

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2009-2013/2009TCA0012-000602.htm

Plus only licenced drivers can operate one as per ICBC rules,Class 5 or 7

Edited February 2, 2012 by guyser

[guyser]

I have no problem with that………A doctor can report a patient that shouldn’t be driving……..If the patient continues driving, their licence and/or insurance can be revoked………If a gun owner develops mental illness, revoke their PAL/RPAL. That’s fair.

A report to the Ministry of Transport by a Doctor results in the immediate suspension of licence but has absolutely no effect on insurance.

Once the ins co finds the suspension, then and only then can it take some action but generally they just delete or have that driver sign off.

[Guest Derek L]

Thats fine, it was registered before and still remains as registered to the former owner, or former owner before that.

Best hope someone doesnt come and claim it, since you cannot prove ownership.

YEs you are, implemented sometime in 2010.

From the press release...

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2009-2013/2009TCA0012-000602.htm

Plus only licenced drivers can operate one as per ICBC rules,Class 5 or 7

You didn't read your link:

http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2009-2013/2009TCA0012-000602.htm

The proposed framework is the result of extensive consultations over a number of years with a wide variety of interested organizations. The regulations define ORVs as including dirt bikes, all-terrain vehicles and snowmobiles, and will not apply to private lands.

I sure hope nobody tries and claims my BBQ or patio furniture………They might be introduced to my unregistered rottweiler and boxer.......

[Guest Derek L]

A report to the Ministry of Transport by a Doctor results in the immediate suspension of licence but has absolutely no effect on insurance.

Once the ins co finds the suspension, then and only then can it take some action but generally they just delete or have that driver sign off.

So if your doctor thinks you shouldn’t be driving, via a report to the government, your licence can be suspended right? Without a driver’s licence, one can’t legally drive on public roads right?

Without a PAL/RPAL, one can’t legally own firearms in Canada…………See where I’m going with this?

[eyeball]

I have no problem with that………A doctor can report a patient that shouldn’t be driving……..If the patient continues driving, their licence and/or insurance can be revoked………If a gun owner develops mental illness, revoke their PAL/RPAL. That’s fair.

What about gun owners who become sick but don't seek help either because they don't recognize it or they're afraid of doing so?

[Guest Derek L]

What about gun owners who become sick but don't seek help either because they don't recognize it or they're afraid of doing so?

What about drivers? What about drinkers and drug users? What about “regular people” with access to sleeping pills, rope, garage/car/hose or knives?

[cybercoma]

When someone puts a gun to their head and pulls the trigger, it's several times more likely to be lethal than people who try to swallow a bottle of pills, slit their wrists, or hang themselves. It's also much more threatening to have an angry spouse with access to a gun than a knife, since they're considerably more lethal.

Edited February 2, 2012 by cybercoma

[guyser]

You didn't read your link:

I did , b ut the trump was the details below , 'all must be regd' althopugh some may be grnadfathered. Any new or re-sale must be

I am not sure where you are going with this.

[eyeball]

What about drivers? What about drinkers and drug users? What about “regular people” with access to sleeping pills, rope, garage/car/hose or knives?

Take the easy way out and do what gun advocates did - pretend all these people as just regular criminals like gun owners that go on shooting rampages.

I'm pretty sure the government would rather spend money punishing them instead of treating them. The latter costs more and economics trumps virtue so... This approach would also dovetail nicely with plans to cut health care and crack down and get tough and all that. Because Canadian attitudes towards mental illness are so poor already this is a really easy flow to go with.

Can you imagine Harper trying to garner votes from his base of support by doing anything else? You'd all figure he'd gone soft and mushy if he did.

Edited February 2, 2012 by eyeball

[Guest Derek L]

When someone puts a gun to their head and pulls the trigger, it's several times more likely to be lethal than people who try to swallow a bottle of pills, slit their wrists, or hang themselves. It's also much more threatening to have an angry spouse with access to a gun than a knife, since they're considerably more lethal.

How many suicides and murders are there a year in Canada? How many firearms related deaths are there a year in Canada?

If you want to get into “likelihoods” and a numbers game, over 30k Canadians die a year from smoking related causes contrast that with ~1000 Canadians that die a year from firearms (Accidents/murder/Suicide)

What about drunk driving?

Recreational drugs?

Work related accidents or illnesses?

I have no problem repeating these numbers ad-nauseum, and the point still stands, there are many other causes of death Canada, that a occur at drastically greater numbers, than firearm’s related deaths……

Your’s is a emotional response, since statistically the “problem” is minuet compared to other causes of death in Canada. As is the case with my above listed counter examples, (Smoking/Speeding/Drunk Driving etc) there is already “campaigns” to improve safety and awareness to the potential of death or serious injury when partaking in these activities. Yet, deaths still occur and at greater numbers then what is the case with firearms.

We have in place for firearms, licensing and safe storage/procedure laws, that have been proven to reduce firearms related accidents and allowing criminals and the mentally ill easy access to firearms……Do incidents still occur? Sure they do, but as was mentioned to a drastically lesser extent than with my other examples………Also, when looking at our national average (~1000 deaths a year), most of those deaths occur by criminals with illegally obtained firearms, of which, restricting the public’s access will not help reduce.

The serious question that should be answered, is why do you and other’s FEAR a tool with components made of steel, wood/polymer, brass and lead? Have you ever handled and/or used a firearm?