Military defies orders to increase size of militia.

[Smallc]

Fine forget that we have one of the highest budgets in the world, and focus on the fact that it has been increased more than 50% accounting for inflation.

[Guest Derek L]

quality of the ship is only as good as the crew on it....

my bro-in-law a career sailor of 25 years an expert in anti submarine warfare related to me how one our "antiquated" Oberon class subs in naval exercise penetrated the defenses of an american super carrier fleet, tagged the carrier and escaped undetected...

I've no doubt our newer subs can do just as well, the only problem seems to be keeping them operating...

The Oberon class where a good series of diesel boats, and for the record, many other navies subs have penetrated a US carrier battle groups numerous layers in exercises……..It’s not just a reflection on the sub crews, but on the continued downward spiral of USN ASW capabilities……..Since the Spruance’s and Vikings have been retired nearly ten years ago, these capabilities have further eroded.

That being said, the parameters of the exercise would have to be judged (Was it close inshore? Was there USN SSN present? What type and how many escorts did the carrier have?), there is a difference between how the all navies operate during exercise and war…….Much like a sports team during a scrimmage and a playoff game…..

Again though, the O-boats where fully operational when they retired…….The Victoria’s are not.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Derek L

[Guest Derek L]

No, given that Spain spends hardly any more, but yet has far more. They've been spending the same amount for a very long time. I don't think it's unreasonable given that we're supposed to have a relatively constant budget (plus inflation) that we'll be able to increase capabilities.

Oh, and we're the smallest country in the G8. We're actually something like the 12th largest economy. I don't think it's unreasonable that we're spending somewhere between the 13th and 16th most, depending on what you look at. I'm not saying I'm an expert, but you won't find much in the way of negativity on the budget or the current capabilities of the forces outside of a couple of internet forums. There are soldiers that will argue that the forces are doing really well, and those that argue they aren't. Some of them are higher up the ladder than others. I mean really, in 2001 we were spending $9.6B, and in 2007, $14.8B...this year, we're spending $21.8B, next year a bit less, and then more every year until 2030. How can you not get an increase in capability over the 90s when you double your military budget, and increase it by 60% when accounting for inflation?

The Spanish, until about ten years ago, relied on mandatory service……not to mention, their military benefits greatly from a heavily subsidized ship building, aerospace and arms manufacturing industry.

Again, no one is calling for an increase in budget, the opposition is to adding further constraints on the military without increasing the budget……Or without defining what capabilities should be cut…….What would you cut?

[Smallc]

would you cut?

I don't know. I don't know absolutely everything that DND does. It seems though, that DND isn't as efficient as it should be, and so that's where I'd start.

[Guest Derek L]

I don't know. I don't know absolutely everything that DND does. It seems though, that DND isn't as efficient as it should be, and so that's where I'd start.

As per Lieutenant General Leslie’s report, he called on cutting ~7000 civil service, regular force and contractor jobs from headquarters in Ottawa…….Who gets the pink slips? What, if anything, will suffer with such a sweeping cut?

His report is also rumoured to call for further streamlining of the procurement process…..I would conclude this means gutting the current project offices, and instead of current practices of having numerous open competitions from all suppliers, allow the Forces to pick what they want…….and sign further sole source contracts for future equipment….

It’s also been rumoured to call for base closures……….Which bases get cut? The closure of any (or all) of the following CFB Gander, Goose Bay, North Bay, Moose Jaw, Winnipeg, and Shilo would see huge savings……

I agree that there is waste within DND, but someone brave is going to have to swing the axe…..

[Smallc]

As per Lieutenant General Leslie’s report, he called on cutting ~7000 civil service, regular force and contractor jobs from headquarters in Ottawa…….Who gets the pink slips? What, if anything, will suffer with such a sweeping cut?

Maybe nothing. Businesses make cuts with little consequence all of the time.

His report is also rumoured to call for further streamlining of the procurement process…..I would conclude this means gutting the current project offices, and instead of current practices of having numerous open competitions from all suppliers, allow the Forces to pick what they want…….and sign further sole source contracts for future equipment….

I'm not sure if that's all it would mean. There are other options that we may not be aware of.

It’s also been rumoured to call for base closures……….Which bases get cut? The closure of any (or all) of the following CFB Gander, Goose Bay, North Bay, Moose Jaw, Winnipeg, and Shilo would see huge savings……

If a base isn't necessary, close it...although I don't see Winnipeg and Gander being closed.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Smallc

[Guest Derek L]

Maybe nothing. Businesses make cuts with little consequence all of the time.

What is usually the largest expense for a business? If they did cut ~7000 jobs from NDHQ, and using a conservative average salary of 60k (not including benefits/pension) that’s approx ~400 million a year in savings……………What else could DND cut to find annual savings? Fuel/weapons expenditures? What about maintenance, both to equipment and infrastructure?

400-500 million is half way to the stated 1 billion in required savings………Now cut a base or two and you’ll start seeing real savings.

I'm not sure if that's all it would mean. There are other options that we may not be aware of.

The proverbial forest for the trees………..There’s been people in NDHQ working on, for example, the Sea King replacement/AOR/280s for decades……….That in of itself is wasteful……..Figure on a (guesstimate) of a staff of 50, each making 50K a year for twenty years…..that’s 50 million dollars…..Figure how many replacement projects are ongoing, and how large their staffs are……….Think of the money saved, if the EH-101 had of been purchased near twenty years ago……….

If a base isn't necessary, close it...although I don't see Winnipeg and Gander being closed.

Sure, but why is Winnipeg and/or Gander needed? Their functions could be amalgamated into other bases…..The training schools in Winnipeg go to Cool Pool or Moose Jaw and the Hercs to Trenton ……then the Cormorants go from Gander to Greenwood…..There is nothing preventing forward basing a handful of SAR birds to the civilian airports in Manitoba and Newfoundland……