What is Fair User-Based Internet Billing?

[shelphs]

The CRTC has permitted user-based billing (UBB) charges and has set standards for pricing. Canadian companies charge Canadians UBB fees whenever users exceed the allotted monthly download cap, which differs from plan to plan.

What are Canadians being charged and what are companies' operational fees? The difference is exorbitant. Canadians are being charged 1 to 2 dollars per gigabyte over the limit and it only costs companies approximately 3 cents per gigabyte used by its customers.

Read More:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/gadgets-and-gear/hugh-thompson/what-is-a-fair-price-for-internet-service/article1890596/

[TimG]

What are Canadians being charged and what are companies' operational fees? The difference is exorbitant. Canadians are being charged 1 to 2 dollars per gigabyte over the limit and it only costs companies approximately 3 cents per gigabyte used by its customers.

If you pay $25/month for internet service and you get a 25Gbytes cap then you are paying $1/GB.

So paying $1/GB for overages is exactly what you are paying for your basic service.

Why should the overage free be any less?

Applying the $0.03/GB logic to your basic rate and we get a monthly rate of $0.75.

Does anyone really believe that ISP could make money if they charged customers $0.75/month?

Their costs are obviously much higher.

[Bonam]

If you pay $25/month for internet service and you get a 25Gbytes cap then you are paying $1/GB.

Those aren't real numbers, though. I pay $37/mo and have a 250 GB/mo limit. That's $0.15/GB.

Also I'd say that probably the vast vast majority of the cost of providing service is in employee labor and infrastructure (90%+ if not 99%+), and your share of this cost is paid for by your monthly subscription fee. The incremental cost of transmitting an extra GB of data over existing infrastructure is certainly not a dollar, not a cent, and I would be surprised if it cost as much as a one hundredth of a cent (in fact the whole cost of that is probably the electricity cost of supplying a few mA of current to a 5V fiber transmitter for a few milliseconds).

Edited September 9, 2011 by Bonam

[fellowtraveller]

What is fair or not fair is irrelevant since we will never see fair as long as companies are protected from competition. All this crap about bandwidth is just fluff, a cover for the real issue which is Rogers etc protecting themselves from the threat of companies like Netflix. And they have the active connivance of the CRTC on their side, how very convenient.

[shelphs]

If you pay $25/month for internet service and you get a 25Gbytes cap then you are paying $1/GB.

So paying $1/GB for overages is exactly what you are paying for your basic service.

Why should the overage free be any less?

Applying the $0.03/GB logic to your basic rate and we get a monthly rate of $0.75.

Does anyone really believe that ISP could make money if they charged customers $0.75/month?

Their costs are obviously much higher.

Yes, those are certainly not real numbers. The point being made was in regards to overage usage and fees. The base rate is for more than simply bandwidth usage, as pointed out by Bonam. The UBB fees are currently ridiculously over-priced.

[TimG]

The UBB fees are currently ridiculously over-priced.

Why? Last time I checked a reasonable price is whatever people are willing to pay.

The problem with UBB is not the prices but the fact that people have no easy way to monitor their usage and therefore make a choice on whether they want to pay. Instead of limits on what they charge, I would rather see operators be required to provide customers with real time data on the usage and the ability to set up email alerts that tell them they are approach their limits. This would allow the willing seller/willing buyer paradigm to function properly.

Edited September 10, 2011 by TimG

[fellowtraveller]

Why? Last time I checked a reasonable price is whatever people are willing to pay.

The problem with UBB is not the prices but the fact that people have no easy way to monitor their usage and therefore make a choice on whether they want to pay. Instead of limits on what they charge, I would rather see operators be required to provide customers with real time data on the usage and the ability to set up email alerts that tell them they are approach their limits. This would allow the willing seller/willing buyer paradigm to function properly.

Why? Because last time I checked a reasonable price is what people are prepared to pay in an open and fair marketplace.

Until then, putting a meter on your monitor will play right into the hands of the few ISPs in Canada and their pals at the CRTC that together ensure Canadians that pay far too much for Internet service, just as we pay far too much for cable TV, land lines and cellphone service.

[TimG]

Why? Because last time I checked a reasonable price is what people are prepared to pay in an open and fair marketplace.

A phoney argument. There is competition in ISPs. There is competition in cellular service. You can't say the market is not "open and fair" just because the market does not deliver the prices you think you should pay.

[dre]

A phoney argument. There is competition in ISPs. There is competition in cellular service. You can't say the market is not "open and fair" just because the market does not deliver the prices you think you should pay.

Maybe but some the overage rates are so high its bordering on price gouging. Plus as you say they dont offer much transparency.

[TimG]

Maybe but some the overage rates are so high its bordering on price gouging. Plus as you say they dont offer much transparency.

I think one is connected to the other. If they offered transparency then very few people would go over and they would need to lower their rates to generate the revenue. The problem is they get to trick people in buying something they did not realize they were buying. I think the government should require transparency and see what happens. Edited September 11, 2011 by TimG

[Wilber]

Maybe but some the overage rates are so high its bordering on price gouging. Plus as you say they dont offer much transparency.

Why is it you can download a free ap for an android phone that monitors data usage between billing dates and you can't do the same for home internet service?

[TimG]

Why is it you can download a free ap for an android phone that monitors data usage between billing dates and you can't do the same for home internet service?

Because most people route traffic from many different computers/devices through a router. Keeping track of them all is difficult - if not impossible since devices like XBoxes and WIIs don't allow you to install those kinds of apps. The ISPs are the only ones that can provide that information. Edited September 12, 2011 by TimG

[Wilber]

Because most people route traffic from many different computers/devices through a router. Keeping track of them all is difficult - if not impossible since devices like XBoxes and WIIs don't allow you to install those kinds of apps. The ISPs are the only ones that can provide that information.

Sounds like a business opportunity for some budding electronics company. Build a router that keeps track.

[TimG]

Sounds like a business opportunity for some budding electronics company. Build a router that keeps track.

Why? ISPs track the info in real time. They just need to provide it to customers in real time. Edited September 12, 2011 by TimG

[fellowtraveller]

A phoney argument. There is competition in ISPs. There is competition in cellular service. You can't say the market is not "open and fair" just because the market does not deliver the prices you think you should pay.

Right, tell Wind and other startups that there is fair competition in the marketplace. They are obliged to fight for everything in front of the CRTC, while their 'competitors ' enjoy their domination of consumers.

If we have an open market, why are our cell and Internet rates some of the highest in the world?

[Smallc]

Why is it you can download a free ap for an android phone that monitors data usage between billing dates and you can't do the same for home internet service?

You can..at least for a Mac you can.

[dre]

Why is it you can download a free ap for an android phone that monitors data usage between billing dates and you can't do the same for home internet service?

Oh you certainly can. Most people just dont bother.

[Bob]

The CRTC has permitted user-based billing (UBB) charges and has set standards for pricing. Canadian companies charge Canadians UBB fees whenever users exceed the allotted monthly download cap, which differs from plan to plan.

What are Canadians being charged and what are companies' operational fees? The difference is exorbitant. Canadians are being charged 1 to 2 dollars per gigabyte over the limit and it only costs companies approximately 3 cents per gigabyte used by its customers.

Read More:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/gadgets-and-gear/hugh-thompson/what-is-a-fair-price-for-internet-service/article1890596/

Have a problem with high prices for telecommunications in Canada? Abolish the CRTC and you'll be fine. They protect the vested corporate interests, primarily by keeping out foreign competition. If large companies like AT+T/Cingular, Verizon, or Orange were permitted to establish and operate networks in Canada, we'd see a drastically cheaper market as a result of increased competition.

That's why we have these stupid 60 gig limits in Canada. Such bandwidth limits are unheard of in the USA or Israel, for the sake of providing two examples.

[Bob]

Those aren't real numbers, though. I pay $37/mo and have a 250 GB/mo limit. That's $0.15/GB.

Also I'd say that probably the vast vast majority of the cost of providing service is in employee labor and infrastructure (90%+ if not 99%+), and your share of this cost is paid for by your monthly subscription fee. The incremental cost of transmitting an extra GB of data over existing infrastructure is certainly not a dollar, not a cent, and I would be surprised if it cost as much as a one hundredth of a cent (in fact the whole cost of that is probably the electricity cost of supplying a few mA of current to a 5V fiber transmitter for a few milliseconds).

Who's your ISP?

[Bonam]

Who's your ISP?

Right now its Comcast. When I lived in Vancouver, it was Shaw. They offer very comparable rates/GB.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Bonam

[Bob]

Right now its Comcast. When I lived in Vancouver, it was Shaw. They offer very comparable rates/GB.

I was under the impression that bandwidth limits were almost completely done away with in the USA for cable internet service.

[Bonam]

I was under the impression that bandwidth limits were almost completely done away with in the USA for cable internet service.

In practice, the bandwidth limit is not enforced and you don't get charged extra for going over, but they do officially state that you have a bandwidth limit, and that they could potentially do something if you go over it.

[GostHacked]

Because most people route traffic from many different computers/devices through a router. Keeping track of them all is difficult - if not impossible since devices like XBoxes and WIIs don't allow you to install those kinds of apps. The ISPs are the only ones that can provide that information.

Wrong, there are routers that have the ability to calculate traffic from different devices. My D-Link router does that. I can restrict bandwidth to each PC/wifi device. I can also log the amount of traffic going to each computer. I can use one computer that has a program that talks to the router to get that information as well. It really is quite easy to accomplish.

[dre]

Wrong, there are routers that have the ability to calculate traffic from different devices. My D-Link router does that. I can restrict bandwidth to each PC/wifi device. I can also log the amount of traffic going to each computer. I can use one computer that has a program that talks to the router to get that information as well. It really is quite easy to accomplish.

Forgive Tim, hes not the most tech savvy dude.

[GostHacked]

Forgive Tim, hes not the most tech savvy dude.

It's what I do for a living.