bush_cheney2004 Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Nope Doctors that head to the US aren't doing it because of the isolation. No amount of doctors in Winnipeg are going to help people in Churchhill. Only Doctors in Churchhill can help people there. If a Doctor is taking off for the US then there is really no way you could have got them to head to Churchhill sorry. He/she would if you paid for it. The price is too high for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) It is a reality not an excuse we have a smaller population with a larger land mass. Our biggest problem isn't doctors it is access from very small communities who live in places that hard to get out of. Yet we had a Canadian here giving an example of people from Windsor being sent to Detroit because Windsor, with a population of 200,000, didn't have the facilities/care available. FYI, when my grandson was born in a small city needing emergency neonatal care, he was helicoptered in 20 minutes to a hospital where he could receive the care. Population of the city he was sent to? 51,000. Edited August 28, 2011 by American Woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) We have been gaining doctors in a steady stream from 2005. Guess you are wrong. In fact we have more Physicians per 1000 people than you do. It isn't 2000 any more our problem is getting the people to them. So you admit that there was a steady brain drain from Canada to the USA. Now why would that be if Canada's system is so great? Edited August 28, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 So you admit that there was a steady brain drain from Canada to the USA. Now why would that be if Canada's system is so great? Nope again we have very close to the same amount of doctors for our population as you do. Your argument is an out dated one. Again we are dealing with a problem the US system could not fix because it is a problem you guys don't have. There are very few places in the US where you are 3 hours away from an airport let alone can only be accessed at certain times of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) Nope again we have very close to the same amount of doctors for our population as you do. Your argument is an out dated one. Again we are dealing with a problem the US system could not fix because it is a problem you guys don't have. There are very few places in the US where you are 3 hours away from an airport let alone can only be accessed at certain times of the year. So there never was a brain drain? I made that all up, eh? As for three hours away, nonsense, and you are obviously not an American if you don't know that. Edited August 28, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Yet we had a Canadian here giving an example of people from Windsor being sent to Detroit because Windsor, with a population of 200,000, didn't have the facilities/care available. FYI, when my grandson was born in a small city needing emergency neonatal care, he was helicoptered in 20 minutes to a hospital where he could receive the care. Population of the city he was sent to? 51,000. Fail to see your point? There are plenty of cities in the US which are healthcare cities. They have one speciality which is healthcare so they end up being smaller but we don't have those in Canada because do not have the population density to support such a model. Again your system would kill us up here, it is too big for such a small country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Fail to see your point? There are plenty of cities in the US which are healthcare cities. They have one speciality which is healthcare so they end up being smaller but we don't have those in Canada because do not have the population density to support such a model. Again your system would kill us up here, it is too big for such a small country. Make up your mind....is Canada a small country or a large country? The USA doesn't mind being your crutch when the need arises, it just bugs us when you crap on the very same system you have come to rely on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) So there never was a brain drain? I made that all up, eh? As for three hours away, nonsense, and you are obviously not an American if you don't know that. Sure there was a brain drain 11 or more years ago. I don't live in 11 years ago I live right now were Canada and the US have the same number of doctors per capita. Yah sure I know one thing about America there is an air strip, and helicopters everywhere. Edited August 28, 2011 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) Make up your mind....is Canada a small country or a large country? The USA doesn't mind being your crutch when the need arises, it just bugs us when you crap on the very same system you have come to rely on. Again close it down, we will be just fine. Big country with a small and spread out population. If we split healthcare and transportation costs I think you would be quite surprised. Yet we can still make Billions and Billions dollars worth of drugs Americans love to buy. Edited August 28, 2011 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Sure there was a brain drain 11 years ago. I don't live in 11 years ago I live right now were Canada and the US have the same number of doctors per capita. Then why do Canadians wait so long? Why are facilities lacking? Why do provinces have web sites to keep wait time score? (US states do not have wait time web sites, but you knew this right, being an American and all?) Yah sure I know one thing about America there is an air strip, and helicopters everywhere. Sure there are....America is like The Jetsons! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Again close it down, we will be just fine. I think not....people vote with their feet. Big country with a small and spread out population. If we split healthcare and transportation costs I think you would be quite surprised. Not surprised at all....most Canadians live close to the US border (not boarder). Yet we can still make Billions and Billions dollars worth of drugs Americans love to buy. They are American off-patent drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 That's not a lie. Canada doesn't have to abide by FDA guidelines. Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP) are the part of quality assurance that ensures that drugs are consistently produced and controlled in such a way to meet the quality standards appropriate to their intended use, as required by the marketing authorization. Part of the Health Products and Food Branch Inspectorate (Inspectorate) program is to conduct inspections of establishments that are involved in activities covered by the Establishment Licensing framework. These inspections are conducted to verify the compliance with GMP (Part C, Division 2 of the Food and Drugs Regulations) which is a requirement for the issuance of an establishment licence. http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/compli-conform/gmp-bpf/index-eng.php The World Health Organization (WHO) version of GMP is used by pharmaceutical regulators and the pharmaceutical industry in over one hundred countries worldwide, primarily in the developing world. The European Union's GMP (EU-GMP) enforces similar requirements to WHO GMP, as does the Food and Drug Administration's version in the US. Similar GMPs are used in other countries, with Australia, Canada, Japan, Singapore and others having highly developed/sophisticated GMP requirements. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_manufacturing_practice#Enforcement Sounds like it's not a matter of concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 I think not....people vote with their feet. Not surprised at all....most Canadians live close to the US border (not boarder). They are American off-patent drugs. yah none of what you have said is a rebutting to what I have said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Again close it down, we will be just fine. Big country with a small and spread out population. If we split healthcare and transportation costs I think you would be quite surprised. Yet we can still make Billions and Billions dollars worth of drugs Americans love to buy. Close it down? We’ll be fine? If that’s the case, why do we send patients there? Is there a shortage of Tim Horton’s & McDonalds tables to treat them on? As for prescription drugs that we sell, who developed them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 yah none of what you have said is a rebutting to what I have said. What you have said is nonsense....closing the border is not going to happen for lots of reasons beyond access to "American Style" healthcare. Canada has lots of "American Style" stuff, but few like to admit to it. That's just part of the Canadian identity...NOT American. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Close it down? We’ll be fine? If that’s the case, why do we send patients there? Is there a shortage of Tim Horton’s & McDonalds tables to treat them on? As for prescription drugs that we sell, who developed them? Because no one wants to go to NS for care from BC when they can go to the US and be close to their family and loved ones. Again we are a big country. Who developed the drugs? Canadian companies develop them and sell them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Because no one wants to go to NS for care from BC when they can go to the US and be close to their family and loved ones. Again we are a big country. British Columbia has a population of about 4.6 million...why does it lack such facilities? Do you think Americans fly from New York to San Francisco for a preemie bed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Because no one wants to go to NS for care from BC when they can go to the US and be close to their family and loved ones. Again we are a big country. Who developed the drugs? Canadian companies develop them and sell them. Why do people from BC have to go to NS in the first place? Why not treat British Columbians in, well, BC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) Fail to see your point? There are plenty of cities in the US which are healthcare cities. They have one speciality which is healthcare so they end up being smaller but we don't have those in Canada because do not have the population density to support such a model. Again your system would kill us up here, it is too big for such a small country. Ummmmm. I'm not referring to a "health care city" by any means. Health care is by no means its "specialty." In fact, I have to wonder which cities are on that list of "plenty of cities" that are "health care cities." And fyi - the city I'm referring to is 35 miles from Detroit. But yeah, our system would kill you - it would cost you big bucks - that's the point being made. But do rely on our spending the bucks that provides Canada with a "safety net" to your health care system - as many canadians brag about Canadian health care and cut ours down. Easy to spend less when you rely on someone else to take care of your shortfalls. And whether you realize it or not, it is a reflection on your health care system. Edited August 28, 2011 by American Woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Realizing how much this thread has been derailed, I apologize to Peeves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Realizing how much this thread has been derailed, I apologize to Peeves. Alas, it was necessary and directly related to why certain politicos would be falsely "lionized". The good news is that several members expressed a far more balanced perspective on the "threat of American style" healthcare, recognizing the dead end that such constant bashing has yielded in the way of improving provincial health care systems. That won't fly any more in the political space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Bandelot Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 That won't fly any more in the political space. Sure it will... such rhetoric is innate to the Canadian psyche and will never be defeated. What do you think you are, some kinda Hercules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Sure it will... such rhetoric is innate to the Canadian psyche and will never be defeated. What do you think you are, some kinda Hercules? Hercules just died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 No but from where we are you can't say the Conservatives don't want to move us closer to a US style. Maybe that talking point has been taken to the extreme but I hear the same thing out of Conservatives all the time "Canada is like Cuba, or North Korea with their medical system." We are nothing like those countries. Again the left has done nothing the right doesn't do, it is just a political fact in Canada and around the world. All I care about is what works best. If I thought we could do a single payer system without any additional money - like Cuba and North Korea - then I'd say sure. But there is likely a reason why none of the social democratic countries of Europe have adopted that system. I doubt it's because they're all in the pockets of big insurance companies or health care syndicates. And bringing up Cuba and North Korea isn't politicising it unless you suggest the advocates of a single payer system are communists or something. The only reason I would bring it up is to point out that there are three systems in the world. The U.S. system, which no one else has adopted, our system, which is also used by Cuba and North Korea, and the system used by every other nation on the planet. To me, that would seem to indicate most of the world's governments don't see our system as the most viable. The only two that do are brutal dictatorships who can force everyone to accept whatever they decide to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 "Poor countries have only public healthcare, thus if Canada has only public Healthcare its healthcare must be on the same level as poor countries." Thank you for making my point clear. That is not the point of the example. The point of the example is that the only two other nations which use it are brutal dictators who don't have to worry about, for example, doctors or nurses leaving for better paying jobs elsewhere, or refusing to provide services. They don't have to worry about protests from anyone involved in the system over any decision they make. In a democratic country, with guaranteed freedoms, the dictatorial approach doesn't work so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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