Should Canada legislate more vacation time?

[Thorn]

Then perhaps Canadians should ask for more vacation time. That's what our staff have done and that's why the get the time.

My wife went through a similar thing at one time. I told her to just ask for more paid time off in lieu of a pay raise and she got it (basically, her employer at that time wasn't willing to pay her any more in absolute dollars but recognized that she did need some kind of raise).

I think the problem is more so with employees than with employers.

Given the power ratio between employers and employees, particularly in more difficult economic times, that's very unlikely to lead to a happy conclusion for the employee. In larger organizations, the amount of vacation is set, and can't be changed on the whim of a manager or employee. In firms where there is rapid turnover, again, the value placed on employees is generally minimal, and employers will get away with paying the least salary and benefits they can.

The question I have is whether we as a society should consider this to be in our overall interests, or, if not, whether we ought to work to change it in the way the Europeans have.

[Saipan]

The government, with minimum wage laws. I know you like the theory of each being willing to work for whatever the market will pay, but in practice this inevitably leads to a downward spiral of wages until most people, those not in jobs which have a scarcity of workers, are working for next to nothing.

Isn't that the best incentive ever to start business?

What else would you want to dictate, prices too?

[CANADIEN]

Why would I? I work for a private company and my company would go out of business if they overcompensated their employees. Furthermore, a private company's creditors are far less likely to be foreign governments. Finally, I'm not even talking about a voluntary reduction in salary, so your point is irrelevant.

On the contrary. Don't you your Reagonimcs. Everyone knows that lower salaries in the public and private sector means higher salaries for CEOs, who then generously let it trickle down, which is good for everyone. Plus that means they buy more, which raises tax revenues, which in turns means less reliance on government borrowing. Where is your compassion for Chinese workers?

I will certainly continue to vote for any party which addresses this hypocrisy and is in favour of involuntarily decreasing benefits to those public servants who sustain their luxurious lifestyles through the oppression of foreign workers. You are free to vote for your 4th reich society, 40% of Canadians and I will continue to ensure that the parties who support your unbounded greed and hypocrisy remain powerless.

4th Reich society. :lol:

Keep on with terms like that. You'll be a good source of entertainment and won't be taken seriously.

Edited August 21, 2011 by CANADIEN

[CPCFTW]

What else would you want to dictate, prices too?

Do you have to ask? Everyone knows Canadian socialists are in favour of rent controls, regulating oil prices, and anything else that discourages saving and investing. Everyone (in Canada) should live the good life of taking 10 weeks vacation with guaranteed pensions without any investment risk, it can just be paid for by the benevolent chinese government.

[CANADIEN]

What wages do YOU pay?

What wages would ipay? At a minimum, enough that someone working a full week doesn't have to go to the food bank,and has a living space that actually fitfor a human being to live in.

Now, you will probably come up with some assine statement like "you don't understand economy, you'd think differently if you owned a business, yada, yadda, yada". Actually, I do not think I would. Because real freedom cannot exist for a person who doesn't have the bare minimum needed to live.

Now, your turn. How little would you pay if you could get away with it? I am tempted to believe that you would have no problem with handing a loaf of stale bread and a glass of water a day and give a pillow and a sheet to sleep on the floor, but feel free to prove me wrong.

Edited August 21, 2011 by CANADIEN

[Saipan]

What wages would ipay?

I didn't ask what "would" you pay. I asked what DO you pay?

[CANADIEN]

Isn't that the best incentive ever to start business?

¨

And I thought it was to make money. Thanks for showing that it is to screw workers as much as possible.l

[CANADIEN]

I didn't ask what "would" you pay. I asked what DO you pay?

Nice play on semantics. Whether I employ people or not does not change the necessity of decent salaries and working conditions.

The question remains. How little would you pay if you could get away with it?

[CANADIEN]

Did you ask "anyone" if they buy yours.

I'll be hapy to ask when I start writing some

[Saipan]

¨

And I thought it was to make money.

That is ALWAYS the reason. Isn't money you were moaning about?

Of course there will always be those unable to make any, and try to 'distribute" other people's money.

[CANADIEN]

Do you have to ask? Everyone knows Canadian socialists are in favour of rent controls

If the idea that rents should be at a level that a person on a minimum wage can afford to live in an appartment fit for a human being is being a socialist, then I'll sign on it. And I thought that was simple common sense and decency.

Everyone (in Canada) should live the good life of taking 10 weeks vacation

Let me know when somebody actually advocates that, will you?

[Saipan]

If the idea that rents should be at a level that a person on a minimum wage can afford to live in an appartment fit for a human being is being a socialist, then I'll sign on it.

Are you a landlord? Do YOU rent to someone on minimum wage or welfare?

[CANADIEN]

Are you a landlord? Do YOU rent to someone on minimum wage or welfare?

No, so what?

Is that your contention that only those who pay a salary or rent an apartment should be allowed to speak on the issue? If that's the case, that says a lot about your idea of freedom.

[bush_cheney2004]

If the idea that rents should be at a level that a person on a minimum wage can afford to live in an appartment fit for a human being is being a socialist, then I'll sign on it. And I thought that was simple common sense and decency.

No...common sense is to get a roommate to make such ends meet.

[CPCFTW]

On the contrary. Don't you your Reagonimcs. Everyone knows that lower salaries in the public and private sector means higher salaries for CEOs, who then generously let it trickle down, which is good for everyone. Plus that means they buy more, which raises tax revenues, which in turns means less reliance on government borrowing. Where is your compassion for Chinese workers?

4th Reich society. :lol:

Keep on with terms like that. You'll be a good source of entertainment and won't be taken seriously.

What does the left's latest boogeyman, CEOs, have to do with the scenario I outlined above whereby Western governments borrow from a tyrranical and oppressive Chinese government (which generates revenues through oppression of far less privileged workers) to pay for the inflated benefits of public servants?

[Thorn]

The issue is the combination of all those benefits and declaring them inalienable rights for lower class workers. No one would care if mailmen and bus drivers got 4 weeks vacation. The problem is that the unions insist they get that (or more) plus an unsustainable defined benefit pension plan, plus bankable sick days, plus ridiculous wages.

If its unsustainable how come other countries have more generous benefits and seem to be able to sustain them quite nicely?

[Thorn]

Question for the self proclaimed "progressives" in here: who pays for these "progressive" benefits? Well the government does of course! But how does the government pay for our "progress"? By borrowing money of course!

Norway has more generous benefits than Canada does, and it has a budget surplus. So perhaps there is more to this borrowing than what benefits and vacations and pensions people get?

[Thorn]

Why would I? I work for a private company and my company would go out of business if they overcompensated their employees.

How do you suppose businesses continue to operate in Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Austria, Germany, etc?

[Thorn]

Isn't that the best incentive ever to start business?

What else would you want to dictate, prices too?

It's completely unrealistic to presume everyone can start a business. The vast majority have neither the inclination nor the resources nor the contacts to start a business. Would you have everyone else working eighteen hour days and living in tin shacks?

[Guest American Woman]

The income tax rate in some of those countries is outrageous. link People seem to forget that sometimes when referring to 'how much more' of this or that people get in other countries.

[bush_cheney2004]

The income tax rate in some of those countries is outrageous. link People seem to forget that sometimes when referring to 'how much more' of this or that people get in other countries.

Indeed....they also live in smaller spaces and have less "stuff", including labor saving appliances.

[CPCFTW]

Norway has more generous benefits than Canada does, and it has a budget surplus. So perhaps there is more to this borrowing than what benefits and vacations and pensions people get?

Norway is a tiny Nordirc country sitting on huge oil reserves. Don't be so covetous. Not all countries were created equal. Norway can afford those types of benefits without borrowing from oppressed workers. Clearly we can't for now.

Maybe if we freed the innovators and entrepreuners to invest and generate jobs and wealth for our society we could one day provide similar generous benefits without relying on foreign slave labour.

[CPCFTW]

How do you suppose businesses continue to operate in Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Austria, Germany, etc?

What does that have to do with the marginal business that can only stay in business at current labour costs?

[CANADIEN]

What does the left's latest boogeyman, CEOs, have to do with the scenario I outlined above whereby Western governments borrow from a tyrranical and oppressive Chinese government (which generates revenues through oppression of far less privileged workers) to pay for the inflated benefits of public servants?

Did I blame CEO's? On the contrary, I have clearly demonstrated that private sector employees can do their part by helping CEO's make more money through reduced salaries in benefits, which in turn lead to more money being spent, more tax revenue, and less government relience on foreign loans. Don't you want to help Chinese workers?

And I am sure that you will agree with me that Chinese workers should get decent wages and livng and working conditions.

[Thorn]

The income tax rate in some of those countries is outrageous. link People seem to forget that sometimes when referring to 'how much more' of this or that people get in other countries.

How do you define 'outrageous'? Their societies work better than yours. Their governments provide far and away more social services to their people, who lead generally better lifestyles than yours do. There is far less poverty, far less crime, and people have far more time off work to be with their families than your people do.

Are you counting the cost you guys pay for health care as taxes, btw? You ought to. It's a cost people in other nations don't have.