Gun registry

[Cartman]

With both the Liberals and NDP (I think the Bloc as well?) being in favour of the gun registry, I suspect that it will remain in place if modified. If cars must be registered, should guns be as well? Should Canadians be forced to register their weapons? Is this just the first step towards making them illegal? Should the police have to deal with an armed populace?

[falling leaf]

Cartman

Its not the registered guns I think we need to worry about its the unregistered ones . The ones used to commit crimes, such as murder, I am sure someone who is going to commit murder is not going to go register that gun.

I do believe that money would be better spent going after the people who commit crimes.

Has anyone seen any data on registered guns used for criminal activity?

Also there is another thing I would like to say about weapons.

I don't think the star wars defence system will do anything to stop the terrorists which is the biggest threat to the USA and Canada today . We don't have enough troops to protect ourselves , it will be the Americans who will protect Canada ,their sons that are lost at that time, so I would like to see a little more respect given to the USA.

Anyone who thinks different is a fool

We should be thinking beyond our own borders.

There are 200 nukes ( suitcase size ) from Russia which went missing 2 years ago. Where are they and whoses hands are they in?

Also bio and chemical weapons are easly made and used.

Bio (smallpox) we do not at this time have enough vaccine to protect our population.

Chemicals can do a lot of damage , and could be used anywhere.

It doen't take more than 6 nukes to do major damage to our planet. ( there is no such place as a nuke free zone) .

I have had people say to me in the past that the Americans are always to blame, then in return I have said who do you think is going to save your sorry ass, if the terrorists attack Canada. ?

The answer of course is the Americans

Canada and The United States of America have the best this world has to offer, lets prove it . We should be asking our goverments from both Canada and the USA to do their best to see that we are a fine example to the rest of this planet.

There is another thing we as a nation have forgot !

Only on Nov 11 at the 11th hour do we go out of our way to respect Canada's dead. In France and Belgium they have a lot more respect for our Canadian dead . I have been to France and Belgium and at the 11th hour every day 365 days a year they have a service in Belgium .

The only time since world war 1 they did not have this service was during world war 2 ( german occupation)

Sometimes peace is worth fighting for.

We would not have the country we have today if it was not for the young Canadians who died in world war 2

they are not buried at home but in the fields of France and Belgium.

So what do we do about the weapon problems? It is not just guns that are weapons either as I have said above we need to think beyond guns and our borders , If a full study is done and we find that the ( gun registry) is not working ! What will be the next step?

Is this the first step to making guns illegal?

I don't think its just gun control the whole legal system needs to be changed.

[Boydfish]

There are 200 nukes ( suitcase size ) from Russia which went missing 2 years ago. Where are they and whoses hands are they in?

This is an out-of-date internet myth. The Russians didn't lose 200 tactical nukes. They had some accounting problems in the early 90's, but the accepted stance by all nuclear powers is that the accounting was flawed based on items that were supposed to have been manufactured, but never were.

Even if the above is incorrect, the simple fact is that nukes are extremely delicate and complex feats of engineering. They go "stale" very quick, often in less than a year after assembly. This is very true for tactical devices.

Even assuming that all of this is wrong, these are tactical devices meant to be deployed via SF troops by hand or via conventional artillery. The NMD/ABM system is meant to shoot down sea-launched and inter-continental ballistic missles.

It doen't take more than 6 nukes to do major damage to our planet. ( there is no such place as a nuke free zone)

Wrong. Totally wrong. A full, 6,000 device exchange between the US and Russia might do signifigant damage, but life would still go on, albeit, with a great deal less infrastructure.

<snip>

The gun registry should be scrapped and we should support NMD as a matter of course in support of the NORAD treaty. Both are common sense, but since Ontario and Quebec didn't feel that the Liberals had stolen enough money, they will screw this up too.

[caesar]

Falling Leaf;Q, it will be the Americans who will protect Canada ,their sons that are lost at that time, so I would like to see a little more respect given to the USA.

Anyone who thinks different is a fool.

It is the American government with it unwise action in invading a disarming country (Iraq) instead of staying the course on the REAL terrorist group in Afghanistan and Pakistan (Their good friend whose scientists sold nuclear technologies and parts to rogue nations). It is the American governments torturing prisoners and holding other illegally; ignoring Geneva Conventions that have added fuel to the fire in the terrorist movement. It is the American governments consistent protection of Israel when that country ignores international law that help terrorism to grow. I am not respectful nor grateful for that governments very unwise actions. It has made all of North America a target for these terrorist groups.

Favoritism for Israel instead of fair play to both sides.

[iamcanadian]

The gun registery has been nothing but a huge waste of taxpayers money. I personaly don't think it should have been done in the first place. However, it was, and scrapping the whole thing at this point would just compound that waste even more.

[caesar]

Of course, it should have been done. I suspect the cost overruns may have been caused by those who protest the registry. Sometimes protestors can be a pain in the butt and slow down and complicate issues; costing us money. Why the problem with registering guns; we register our cars. Anyone who has a legitimate reason to own a gun has nothing to worry about. This will allow the quick seizure and signal a background check if an unregistered gun is found.

[playfullfellow]

Caesar, it is not the legitimate gun owner that is the problem when it comes to gun deaths. The majority of all gun crimes involve guns that are already illegal, handguns, assult type weapons, automatic weapons and modified weapons. These weapons are not allowed or severely restricted already.

I don't get how you come to the conclusion that people who oppose gun registry are causing the cost over run? The cost over run is caused by idiocy and lies. The Liberals deliberately projected a much lower cost so the damn thing would get passed. Do you really think that it would have passed if they knew it was going to cost 2 billion dollars? There has already been plenty of previous threads in other posts relating to how many police officers that 2 billion would pay for.

Canada didn't and doesn't have a gun problem. And the people who use guns to commit crimes would not register their weapons anyways so what is the point of throwing away billions on it? All it does is make thousands of normal everyday Canadians (probably a few of your neighbours) into criminals.

This law will just fall into obscurity over the next few years. Impossible to implement completely and even more impossible to enforce. Even now we have provinces that will not pay for enforcement of the law. It will go the way of "tho shalt not spit on the sidewalk" of the past.

[caesar]

Oh but we are having a gun problem in the lower mainland. We are having many shootings and drive by shooting. Most guns are probably coming in illegally from the USA. Having legal guns registered would make it easier to identify and confiscate illegal guns.

Since our Premier, in his wisdom, decided it was a good idea to have some bars allowed to stay open until 4 am; there seems to be a shooting every week.

We don't want to wait until it IS a bigger problem.

People would think twice before buying a gun for dubious reasons if they knew it must be registered.

Of course, protestors increase the cost; tieing up legislation and implementation. We do not want to grow into a country were there are common cases of someone going into a place of employment and shooting up the place. Nor do we want distraught teens to be able to get their hands on guns. Nor do we want incidences of young children picking these guns up and accidently killing someone.

Why the resistance to register ypour gun if you have nothing to hide.

[falling leaf]

Boydfish

This is an out-of-date internet myth. The Russians didn't lose 200 tactical nukes. They had some accounting problems in the early 90's, but the accepted stance by all nuclear powers is that the accounting was flawed based on items that were supposed to have been manufactured, but never were.

That is no myth. It could be more than 200! Even the Canadian forces have missing weapons at times. every time they go out on the range they have to count all they have used and what is left.

The nukes I am talking about went missing , why do you think they are guarding our ports they way they are today?

Even if the above is incorrect, the simple fact is that nukes are extremely delicate and complex feats of engineering. They go "stale" very quick, often in less than a year after assembly. This is very true for tactical devices.

Yes they are extremely delicate but safer to store than conventional weapons.

Have you ever heard of broken arrow?

Stale is not a word I would use.

NMD/ABM system is meant to shoot down sea-launched and inter-continental ballistic missles.

This is old stuff , at least 20 years old or more, do you think our goverments tell us everything!

[playfullfellow]

Having legal guns registered would make it easier to identify and confiscate illegal guns.

HUH? This statement makes absolutely no sense at all. How would registering legal guns weed out illegal guns?

Oh but we are having a gun problem in the lower mainland. We are having many shootings and drive by shooting. Most guns are probably coming in illegally from the USA.

Are any of these guns registered? Are they what we term as "legal" guns? Caesar, these idiots are not going to register their guns. Criminals can get a gun any given day of the week on the street. Mandatory registration of guns does NOT solve this problem. These criminals are already breaking the law, what the heck do they care if they break one more.

People would think twice before buying a gun for dubious reasons if they knew it must be registered.

Do you know what it takes to be able to buy a gun legally anyways, before registration laws? You have to take a course, you have to fill out a multi page questionaire that asks personal questions such as if you have recently been divorced, bankrupt etc. This has absolutely nothing to do with registration. I have no problems with people having permission to own a weapon. Criminals can not get permission to buy a weapon legally so they buy them on the street so what makes you think they will register these already illegal weapons. It won't happen hence 2 billion wasted. A larger police presence in the lower mainland would go further to help the violence there.

Nor do we want incidences of young children picking these guns up and accidently killing someone.

This is absolutely the last thing that any gun owner wants to happen. Hence there was a sharp decline of such incidences long before gun registration. There were plenty of laws regulating gun storage before registration laws came into affect.

Why the resistance to register ypour gun if you have nothing to hide

No resistance actually. I just feel that it is a waste of time and money. It won't work. It hasn't worked in any other country that has tried it so far so how are we going to be different. If it was going to do as promised, not a problem as far as I am concerned. And I have nothing to hide, I just think we had adequate laws before and tougher enforcement would do more to alleviate the criminal problem. Think of it this way, if the criminal knew that every house on the street had a gun and people would start to shoot back, don't you think they would think twice about taking their battles into residential neighbourhoods?

[Boydfish]

That is no myth.

Yes, it is a myth.

It could be more than 200! Even the Canadian forces have missing weapons at times. every time they go out on the range they have to count all they have used and what is left.

I'm not saying that the Soviets never lost a single bullet, but the simple fact is that the effective strength of the Sovet Armed Forces was somewhat questionable in terms of operational equipment. It never occurs to those of us who live in non-totalitarian states, but a factory manager, especially one in a defence industry, in the old USSR ain't going to put on paper "Failed to meet quota, will report to gulag presently".

What happened was that the Politburo ordered things built and manufactured, but instead of reporting back that delays had happened, factory managers and generals would report positive results.

The nukes I am talking about went missing , why do you think they are guarding our ports they way they are today?

Um, Canada doesn't guard it's ports. The problem of illegal Chinese migrants seems to indicate that quite strongly.

Yes they are extremely delicate but safer to store than conventional weapons.

Their safety isn't the problem, it's that no matter how well you pad or isolate them, you're dealing with a device with microscopic tolerances that deal with conventional explosives that decay at a regular and constant rate.

Have you ever heard of broken arrow?

Stale is not a word I would use.

I'd say that you've learned everything you know about nuclear weapons from watching bad movies about the subject.

This is old stuff , at least 20 years old or more, do you think our goverments tell us everything!

OK, the devices that were the subject of these rumors were tactical devices meant to be delivered short range to circumvent NATO air defences.

On the other hand, the NMD/ABM concept is involved with shooting down ballistic missiles(Hence, A-B-M standing for "anti-ballistic missile").

Claiming that old Soviet tactical devices are the reason that ABM is needed is non-sensical.