Canada pulls out of NATO AEWC

[Smallc]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5huj5z9qf3r88RmVqhBGTkiubqeUg?docId=CNG.223be64a73000c30efae7e233c87ad40.171

I'm kind of taken aback by this. They say it's to cut cost, but I can't help but wonder if they're planning to follow Australia's example and buy their own AEWC aircraft. Of course, this is a department that can't even spend all of the the money that they're currently allocated ($1.5B had to be given back to treasury this year).

[Guest Derek L]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5huj5z9qf3r88RmVqhBGTkiubqeUg?docId=CNG.223be64a73000c30efae7e233c87ad40.171

I'm kind of taken aback by this. They say it's to cut cost, but I can't help but wonder if they're planning to follow Australia's example and buy their own AEWC aircraft. Of course, this is a department that can't even spend all of the the money that they're currently allocated ($1.5B had to be given back to treasury this year).

Not a chance, it’s questionable if the entire CP-140 fleet will be replaced, expansion of our ISTAR capability's is not in the cards.

[Smallc]

Not a chance, it’s questionable if the entire CP-140 fleet will be replaced,

That's not questionable, it's a known fact. There will be fewer manned aircraft, and more satellites, sensors, and UAVs. That doesn't discount AEWC. There are some things not in the CFDS. AEWC and AAR aircraft are two of the major things. I expect to get the second and not the first though, it's just an idea I've thought of for a while. There is a great deal of money in the budget. If Australia can afford it with an almost identical budget (although to be fair, they have fewer troops to pay for), then I don't see why we can't.

These are the major, yet unannounced projects contained in the CFDS:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/pri/first-premier/defstra/rebuild-rebatir-eng.asp

Edited June 10, 2011 by Smallc

[Guest Derek L]

That's not questionable, it's a known fact. There will be fewer manned aircraft, and more satellites, sensors, and UAVs. That doesn't discount AEWC. There are some things not in the CFDS. AEWC and AAR aircraft are two of the major things. I expect to get the second and not the first though, it's just an idea I've thought of for a while. There is a great deal of money in the budget. If Australia can afford it with an almost identical budget (although to be fair, they have fewer troops to pay for), then I don't see why we can't.

These are the major, yet unannounced projects contained in the CFDS:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/pri/first-premier/defstra/rebuild-rebatir-eng.asp

There is a difference between nice to have and need……We need Hornet replacements, the JSF will do that, but has since been scaled down to 65 from 80…….Only half the CP-140 fleet upgrade will happen……AWACS won’t happen……We’ll be lucky to replace everything we currently have, amongst all services, without facing a drastic cut.

If the can't fund ~100 personnal for NATO, they won't spends billions on AWACS......We'll be lucky to get FWSAR in the next few years..

[Smallc]

If the can't fund ~100 personnal for NATO, they won't spends billions on AWACS......We'll be lucky to get FWSAR in the next few years..

No, we'll get that. I was wrong. That's at the top of the list, in front of the F-35. There is now a minister in charge of military procurement. There is enough money in the budget, we just haven't been able to spend it. The minister should do what needs to be done, especially considering who it is.

Also, we don't really know why they cut the AEWC positions. Well, actually, we do. DND is not facing cuts, but will have 3 years of slower growth. In order to fund purchases, operations have to be cut back. That means that the procurement budget will go ahead as planned, and there is extra money uncommitted in the budget to the tune of nearly $1B per year. Why would we need drastic cuts with one of the largest budgets ever, and the 13th largest budget in the world?

Edited June 10, 2011 by Smallc

[Guest Derek L]

No, we'll get that. I was wrong. That's at the top of the list, in front of the F-35. There is now a minister in charge of military procurement. There is enough money in the budget, we just haven't been able to spend it. The minister should do what needs to be done, especially considering who it is.

Also, we don't really know why they cut the AEWC positions. Well, actually, we do. DND is not facing cuts, but will have 3 years of slower growth. In order to fund purchases, operations have to be cut back. That means that the procurement budget will go ahead as planned, and there is extra money uncommitted in the budget to the tune of nearly $1B per year. Why would we need drastic cuts with one of the largest budgets ever, and the 13th largest budget in the world?

Go read this:

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/05/03/world/canada-considers-10-nuclear-subs-to-patrol-arctic.html?src=pm

The Canadian Government has concluded that it needs as many as 10 nuclear-powered submarines to enforce its claim to sovereignty in Arctic waters.

How'd that play out?

Hows the old saying go, those that don't learn from history....

[Smallc]

Hows the old saying go, those that don't learn from history....

The history of different government don't apply. FWSAR is at the top of the priority list. For the first time since it's been on the board, we have a majority government. It will happen.

[Guest Derek L]

The history of different government don't apply. FWSAR is at the top of the priority list. For the first time since it's been on the board, we have a majority government. It will happen.

I'm sure FWSAR will happen eventually. Excuse me if I sound jaded and don’t get overly excited about AWACS, but I’ve got in a box somewhere the navy and air force annuals that said the nukes and EH-101 where going to happen too. (Under a Majority government)…….

[Smallc]

I'm sure FWSAR will happen eventually. Excuse me if I sound jaded and don’t get overly excited about AWACS, but I’ve got in a box somewhere the navy and air force annuals that said the nukes and EH-101 where going to happen too. (Under a Majority government)…….

I don't blame you for being jaded, but those were very different times. Canada is on it's way out of deficit now. Back then, it was on it's way to the worst deficit ever.

[Guest Derek L]

I don't blame you for being jaded, but those were very different times. Canada is on it's way out of deficit now. Back then, it was on it's way to the worst deficit ever.

But we also had a direct threat that required these items, priorities change in government like you and I change socks……With Canadian defense procurement, one is best advised to believe it when they see it, then fear it will be retired early without replacement

I have no axe to grind with the Tories (I’m a card carrying member) but defense has always been a very small constituent for any party.

[kitt]

So now all Harper has to do is get rid of the Governor General and he will be the Commander in Chief of his own war mongering military. Whoo Hoo

[Topaz]

Some of our allies aren't happy about this since they have been relying on the AEWC for Libya. Who knows what going on in the minds of the Tories since Harper tries to keep things a secret. Perhaps Harper's finding out its not easy to cut 4 billion a year but also heard they will have the deficit gone in 2014 unless the economy halts. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/06/09/pol-nato-awacs-canada-mackay.html

[Guest Derek L]

Some of our allies aren't happy about this since they have been relying on the AEWC for Libya. Who knows what going on in the minds of the Tories since Harper tries to keep things a secret. Perhaps Harper's finding out its not easy to cut 4 billion a year but also heard they will have the deficit gone in 2014 unless the economy halts. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/06/09/pol-nato-awacs-canada-mackay.html

If the storey is true, it shows the Tories are trying to find savings in government…..Again, if true, it’s purely a cost cutting measure that won’t affect us greatly……So we don’t contribute to the defense of Europe through NATO, no big deal…..This article I’ll add, says nothing about the Canadian contingent to NORAD.....

[mttreg12]

Intresting topic, thanx.

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