Military at the next G8/G20 summit?

[dre]

A suggestion by someone else a long time ago. A large US aircraft carrier. You could fly the delegates out to the ocean. Safe, easily defended. Problem solved. Better than a battleship, where you would still have to dock to load it and defend the dock against the asshole protesters.

I am still trying to figure out what protesters at a G8/G20 meeting expect to accomplish.

The vast majority of these protesters were peacefull, and nobody would have even noticed them if the idiotic police hadnt moved in with riot police. We played right into their hands.

Ask your average Canadian what they remembered most about the summit... they wont tell you about the new trade partnerships that were forged there, or the new economic alliances... theyll remember the astronomical costs, the riot police, and the mass arrests.

[punked]

There is a reason they didn't use the Military and we can trace it back to 2006.

Edited June 1, 2011 by punked

[dre]

A suggestion by someone else a long time ago. A large US aircraft carrier. You could fly the delegates out to the ocean. Safe, easily defended. Problem solved. Better than a battleship, where you would still have to dock to load it and defend the dock against the asshole protesters.

I am still trying to figure out what protesters at a G8/G20 meeting expect to accomplish.

Safe, easily defended. Problem solved.

You would need thousands of planes just to fly out the prostitutes... never mind the delegates. Youd save on security costs but those saving would be offset by logistical costs.

Im thinking we put em in an old freighter off the coast of somalia

[CPCFTW]

The vast majority of these protesters were peacefull, and nobody would have even noticed them if the idiotic police hadnt moved in with riot police. We played right into their hands.

Only if you consider smashing windows and looting as peaceful protest.

Ask your average Canadian what they remembered most about the summit... they wont tell you about the new trade partnerships that were forged there, or the new economic alliances... theyll remember the astronomical costs, the riot police, and the mass arrests.

That's true, you can blame the protesters for that. That was essentially their goal anyway.

[RNG]

Only if you consider smashing windows and looting as peaceful protest.

That's true, you can blame the protesters for that. That was essentially their goal anyway.

And that's why I think they should be dealt with harshly, like three year sentences. The only thing they accomplish is destruction and problems. What positive effect do they have?

[punked]

And that's why I think they should be dealt with harshly, like three year sentences. The only thing they accomplish is destruction and problems. What positive effect do they have?

And what about the abuse of power by police how should that be dealt with?

[Guest American Woman]

I dont know about this.

In the US, the Army et al cannot be used as a civilian police force. The Nat'l Guard can be called in by the State but thats different. See POsse Comitatus Act (sp?)

As for Canada , I looked but could not find, something tells me we cant either.

U.S. military troops were used during the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta - to deter terrorism - but they were fulfilling a role that normally would be filled by the police.

[Guest Derek L]

To add to the idea of hosting the G8 on a “Battleship”, during the initial stages of planning for what would become the Kananaskis summit, one option that was seriously looked at was leasing a P&O ocean liner for the summit to be held on. With the major benefits being the large accommodations, theaters and the ability within its design to install a helipad large enough for Chinook size helicopters.

[Guest Derek L]

U.S. military troops were used during the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta - to deter terrorism - but they were fulfilling a role that normally would be filled by the police.

Wasn't it the Georgia National Guard?

[Guest American Woman]

Wasn't it the Georgia National Guard?

Atlanta was the home of a major Army command, US Forces Command or FORSCOM, the headquarters for the Third US Army. Eventually, FORSCOM decided to deploy approximately 11,000 troops during the Olympics.” (6-7)

Thus, “the process of securing the 1996 Summer Olympics in Atlanta conflated multiple types and levels of organizations, ranging from civilian volunteer groups and the Atlanta Police Department to the U.S. Army, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard.” (7) link

[dre]

And that's why I think they should be dealt with harshly, like three year sentences. The only thing they accomplish is destruction and problems. What positive effect do they have?

Absolutely! Violent protestors and people that destroy property should be subject to whatever the laws are at the time.

And history will be the judge of whether resisting corporate globalism was a good thing or a bad thing and whether the folks doing it were freedom fighters, or terrorists. Not you or me.

[dre]

Only if you consider smashing windows and looting as peaceful protest.

That's true, you can blame the protesters for that. That was essentially their goal anyway.

That was precisely my point.

[punked]

Absolutely! Violent protestors and people that destroy property should be subject to whatever the laws are at the time.

And history will be the judge of whether resisting corporate globalism was a good thing or a bad thing and whether the folks doing it were freedom fighters, or terrorists. Not you or me.

And what about police officers who bust heads of protesters who are doing nothing? What should happen to them?

[CPCFTW]

Absolutely! Violent protestors and people that destroy property should be subject to whatever the laws are at the time.

And history will be the judge of whether resisting corporate globalism was a good thing or a bad thing and whether the folks doing it were freedom fighters, or terrorists. Not you or me.

lol freedom fighters

[dre]

And what about police officers who bust heads of protesters who are doing nothing? What should happen to them?

Same thing. Frog march their asses to court.

[dre]

lol freedom fighters

Laugh all you want but at the time they existed virtually every protest movement was viewed the same way you view this one... folks that wanted womens sufferage... folks that wanted to end slavery. All of these were unpopular fringe groups to start with that people saw as shit disturbers that did nothing positive. Im not making any judgement either way, Im just saying all you can do is take a wild guess.

[punked]

Same thing. Frog march their asses to court.

Sounds awesome but it seems what we got was protesters in Jail and a wall of silence from police. So really it only works one way and the protesters have every right to be upset because the police weren't treated the same way.

[CPCFTW]

Laugh all you want but at the time they existed virtually every protest movement was viewed the same way you view this one... folks that wanted womens sufferage... folks that wanted to end slavery. All of these were unpopular fringe groups to start with that people saw as shit disturbers that did nothing positive. Im not making any judgement either way, Im just saying all you can do is take a wild guess.

No they weren't. There was a civil war over slavery, not a bunch of hippies smashing windows and looting. There has always been crazies with conspiracy theories and they've always been crazy.

[dre]

No they weren't. There was a civil war over slavery, not a bunch of hippies smashing windows and looting. There has always been crazies with conspiracy theories and they've always been crazy.

There was a civil war over slavery at some point, but ending slavery had very little popular support up until that time and civil rights activists, and their protests and marches were viewed very much the same way you view these protesters, and there was violence around them and police crackdowns as well.

And you dont need to be a conspiracy theorist to have concerns about corporate globalism.

[GostHacked]

I dont know about this.

In the US, the Army et al cannot be used as a civilian police force. The Nat'l Guard can be called in by the State but thats different. See POsse Comitatus Act (sp?)

As for Canada , I looked but could not find, something tells me we cant either.

I am not 100% sure about Canada either, I don't really know if we have a law preventing military used at home in a civilian policing capacity.

But for the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

On September 26, 2006, President Bush urged Congress to consider revising federal laws so that U.S. armed forces could restore public order and enforce laws in the aftermath of a natural disaster, in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

These changes were included in the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007 (H.R. 5122), which was signed into law on October 17, 2006.[6]

Section 1076 is titled "Use of the Armed Forces in major public emergencies." It provided that:

The President may employ the armed forces... to... restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition... the President determines that... domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order... or [to] suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such... a condition... so hinders the execution of the laws... that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law... or opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.[7]

In 2008, these changes were repealed in their entirety, reverting to the previous wording of the Insurrection Act.[8]

I guess they consider the Coast Guard part of the military. And that operates within the US, but was never subject to Posse Comitatus.

On October 1, 2008, the US Army announced that the 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team (BCT) will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command (NORTHCOM), as an on-call federal response force for natural or man-made emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks.

This marks the first time an active U.S. Army unit will be given a dedicated assignment to NORTHCOM, where it is stated they may be "called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios such as massive poisoning and chaos in response to a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-yield explosive (CBRNE) attack." These soldiers will also learn how to use non-lethal weapons designed to "subdue unruly or dangerous individuals" without killing them, and also includes equipment to stand up a hasty road block; spike strips for slowing, stopping or controlling traffic; shields and batons; and beanbag bullets.[11] However, the "non-lethal crowd control package [...] is intended for use on deployments to the war zone, not in the U.S. [...]".[11]

The US military will have around 20,000 uniformed personnel in this role in the United States by 2011, specifically trained and equipped to assist state and local government, respond to major disasters, terrorist attack, other major public emergencies.[12] This shift in strategy is a result of recommendations by Congress and outside experts.[12] This response capability is not new, but now accompanies a permanent assignment of forces to NORTHCOM.

Yikes.

[guyser]

.

I have better things to do with my time

Try reading as something "to do with" your time.

Because you sure are parading your ignorance on this issue for all to see.

[guyser]

U.S. military troops were used during the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta - to deter terrorism - but they were fulfilling a role that normally would be filled by the police.

Any idea how they got around the PC Act ?

[fellowtraveller]

In the US, the Army et al cannot be used as a civilian police force. The Nat'l Guard can be called in by the State but thats different.

How is it different?

The National Guard is more or less a reserve Army/Air Force system with all the same weapons and training as the regular Armed Forces.

They were routinely called out and deployed to quell civilian disturbances in America in the 1960s. Kent State, anybody?

I just don't see what the problem is with deploying our military to provide security for huge events like G8/G20. It is a cost effective use of trained government staff. What is the problem?

[guyser]

How is it different?

Ask the Americans, I dont know.

I just don't see what the problem is with deploying our military to provide security for huge events like G8/G20. It is a cost effective use of trained government staff. What is the problem?

It could be law, it could be optics.

Edited June 1, 2011 by guyser

[GostHacked]

How is it different?

The National Guard is more or less a reserve Army/Air Force system with all the same weapons and training as the regular Armed Forces.

They were routinely called out and deployed to quell civilian disturbances in America in the 1960s. Kent State, anybody?

I just don't see what the problem is with deploying our military to provide security for huge events like G8/G20. It is a cost effective use of trained government staff. What is the problem?

You would not have a problem with it, but you do point out the problems using Kent State as an example of why it should not be done? What am I missing here?

And the problem with deplying our military in our streets for civilian policing, I think, is accountablility. Notice how riot cops have no other identification other than the uniform saying POLICE.