NDP Constitution - An exercise in Marxism

[Guest Derek L]

Can someone link me to the NDP Constitution itself? I'd rather judge this one for myself.

They don't have one as of yet, and their old one no longer reflects the parties beliefs on socialism.

[punked]

http://nrcan.gc.ca/eneene/sources/pripri/regreg-eng.php

Again doesn't change the fact you are wrong. Regulation does not make prices higher what it does is stabilize prices so rural gas stations don't get burned and closed down. The reason PEI, NB, and NS regulated was because rural stations were closing left right and center.

So does the NDP want to nationalize the oil & gas industry?

I have no idea where you get that from. Do the Conservatives want to kill babies? Why did I ask that? Well I pulled it out of my ass just like you did.

The Government of Canada doesn't regulate interest rates, the Bank of Canada does.....Does the NDP want to nationalize the banking industry?

The Bank of Canada is a government arms length organization. Again the Government regulates interest rates. Again I have no idea where you are getting nationalization from. Oh it is scary the NDP never said anything about it and you pulled it out your ass. I am not going to get into arguments about nationalization with you because no party wants to do that. That is all in your head.

How has it changed, aside from becoming the official opposition?

Are you kidding? How about the adopting a policy where we say small business should have a 0% tax rate? How about moving toward the center? There are so many new policies the NDP has come out with in the last 10 years it is pretty hard to list them. They have around 100-150 private member bills hit the floor every 1-2 years. So you can go back and read them.

The biggest change actually came from the Liberals though. Once they made union donations illegal the party became more about grassroots and that is a good thing.

Didn't you just criticize the Liberals for wanting to change their constitution? Isn't that hypocritical?

So the NDP isn't for transparency? Shouldn't the voters in Canada be able to look on the side of the box at the list of ingredients?

As long as your party votes for it you can change your constitution all you want. It is your party I could care less.

The NDP is a grassroots organization it is for what the membership says it is for. You will have to get it through your Conservative head that the members decide. It is bottom up not top down. Don't like having a voice? Than join the Conservatives, want a say then come on over.

The voters of Canada can look at the platform the NDP has always been a party to set what they will do during an election. Do as much as they said they would do, then call another election to tell the people what to do. You don't have to worry about hidden agendas because again they have a platform. Look all you want. Again the Constitution much like the Conservative constitution tells very little about how the party will govern because most of it is just a set of rules to follow when passing resolutions, making nominations, having meetings and so on.

[punked]

Can someone link me to the NDP Constitution itself? I'd rather judge this one for myself.

You will have to wait a month because there will be a debate about it at convention. No one knows what it will look like after that.

[cybercoma]

So the NDP is moving to the "center"?

I would say so, yes.

[punked]

No, I do not. Let the market set them. There are enough credit card companies that the competition should do it. Now, there is a need for some regulation, or at least the firm application of existing laws. This is based on an internet search for my son who asked a question about a company that offered a credit card at a very low rate. I googled it and found a bitch site where all kinds of people were dumping on that particular company. I guess their favorite trick was to advertise a very low rate, but if you were late paying, the rate skyrocketed. So they would mail you your bill one day before it was due. Well, neither Canada Post nor the US postal service are that good. A total rip-off. That kind of thing needs to be addressed harshly.

Do you think the government has a right to regulate any interest rate is my question?

[cybercoma]

punked, get that name change pushed through already. Drop the new and call it something like Progressive Democrats or something. Keep social out of the title, so people that can't understand mixed-system policies won't crap themselves in fear that the Bolsheviks are taking over.

[RNG]

Do you think the government has a right to regulate any interest rate is my question?

If you accept the fact that the BOC isn't government, then no.

[punked]

punked, get that name change pushed through already. Drop the new and call it something like Progressive Democrats or something. Keep social out of the title, so people that can't understand mixed-system policies won't crap themselves in fear that the Bolsheviks are taking over.

Wont happen the reason we didn't get to the Constitution last convention is because of that stupid name change. A bunch of idiots grabbed the Mike and ran the time out on the name change they seriously talked for an hour and half about it. No one would let the pro name change people near a mike to call the question. Never again.

[punked]

If you accept the fact that the BOC isn't government, then no.

The Bank act clearly states:

"In case of a profound disagreement between the government and the Bank, the Minister of Finance can issue written instructions for the Bank to change its policies."

Sounds like the government runs the show. Sorry dude maybe actually read the bank act before you tell me what is what.

[RNG]

The Bank act clearly states:

"In case of a profound disagreement between the government and the Bank, the Minister of Finance can issue written instructions for the Bank to change its policies."

Sounds like the government runs the show. Sorry dude maybe actually read the bank act before you tell me what is what.

Just like the Queen can do all kinds of stuff here, only ages of precedent say it won't happen. I'm only 64 yo, and don't ever remember the government overruling the BOC. Can you remember a time?

[punked]

Just like the Queen can do all kinds of stuff here, only ages of precedent say it won't happen. I'm only 64 yo, and don't ever remember the government overruling the BOC. Can you remember a time?

Just like no one would ever use Section 26 (the Deadlock Clause) of the Constitution. Well that was until Mulroney did it to appoint 8 Senators and pound through the GST.

Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it never will. Again the Bank of Canada as per the Bank Act is an independent GOVERNMENT body which can be told what to do by the federal government.

[jbg]

They don't have one as of yet, and their old one no longer reflects the parties beliefs on socialism.

I'd still like to read the allegedly "old" one.

[jbg]

A bunch of idiots grabbed the Mike and ran the time out on the name change they seriously talked for an hour and half about it.

Sounds like the collegians that are in the just-elected NDP caucus.

[RNG]

Just like no one would ever use Section 26 (the Deadlock Clause) of the Constitution. Well that was until Mulroney did it to appoint 8 Senators and pound through the GST.

Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it never will. Again the Bank of Canada as per the Bank Act is an independent GOVERNMENT body which can be told what to do by the federal government.

When it happens, I guess I'll get out my pitchfork and lantern and visit the sitting PM at the time. Till then I'll just chill out and not worry about theoretical problems when I have the prospect of the NDP actually gaining some power to worry about. A real worry.

[Guest Derek L]

Again doesn't change the fact you are wrong. Regulation does not make prices higher what it does is stabilize prices so rural gas stations don't get burned and closed down. The reason PEI, NB, and NS regulated was because rural stations were closing left right and center.

Whats the upper limit for gas prices in those provinces? Whats the price of gas in those provinces?

I have no idea where you get that from. Do the Conservatives want to kill babies? Why did I ask that? Well I pulled it out of my ass just like you did.

Unlike killing babies, the NDP has talked about regulating fuel prices, which would require changing the constitution and scraping the Competion Act........Both tools that increased investment in western Canada's oil and gas industry.

The Bank of Canada is a government arms length organization. Again the Government regulates interest rates. Again I have no idea where you are getting nationalization from. Oh it is scary the NDP never said anything about it and you pulled it out your ass. I am not going to get into arguments about nationalization with you because no party wants to do that. That is all in your head.

As I provided in the link from the Bank of Canada site, it's a crown corp.......it sets interest rates, not the finance minister......The Liberals, Progressive Conservatives and Conservatives have traditionally followed this convention.

So would or wouldn't Layton weigh into setting Canadian monetary policy?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/stephen-gordon/layton-should-stay-clear-of-monetary-policy/article2003825/

The voters of Canada can look at the platform the NDP has always been a party to set what they will do during an election. Do as much as they said they would do, then call another election to tell the people what to do. You don't have to worry about hidden agendas because again they have a platform. Look all you want. Again the Constitution much like the Conservative constitution tells very little about how the party will govern because most of it is just a set of rules to follow when passing resolutions, making nominations, having meetings and so on.

So if the Constitution isn't a big deal, why didn't they leave the old one up until the "grassroots" came up with a new one after the election?

As a member of the CPC, I've no problem with how we set policy, some things I don't agree with (the more social issues raised during the Reform days), but I've no problem with members voicing their opinions. Is the NDP afraid of their history, since they don't have a governing record? Why does it appear the NDP is hiding their socialist past?

[punked]

When it happens, I guess I'll get out my pitchfork and lantern and visit the sitting PM at the time. Till then I'll just chill out and not worry about theoretical problems when I have the prospect of the NDP actually gaining some power to worry about. A real worry.

Again that very section of the Bank act shows that the Bank of Canada is ruled by the Canadian government. That was the argument we were having. You were calling me dumb for saying the Bank of Canada is a government organization and I was pointing out to you how much about Canada and how it works I know in comparison to you. It will be a long 4 years but I am sure if they are all like this Canadians will turn to the NDP at least we understand the system.

[RNG]

Again that very section of the Bank act shows that the Bank of Canada is ruled by the Canadian government. That was the argument we were having. You were calling me dumb for saying the Bank of Canada is a government organization and I was pointing out to you how much about Canada and how it works I know in comparison to you. It will be a long 4 years but I am sure if they are all like this Canadians will turn to the NDP at least we understand the system.

First, I didn't call you dumb. And secondly, I really don't understand this post. And I don't know this part of constitutional law, but Derek L. seems to feel you are factually incorrect. Will you address his post?

[Guest Derek L]

Again that very section of the Bank act shows that the Bank of Canada is ruled by the Canadian government. That was the argument we were having. You were calling me dumb for saying the Bank of Canada is a government organization and I was pointing out to you how much about Canada and how it works I know in comparison to you. It will be a long 4 years but I am sure if they are all like this Canadians will turn to the NDP at least we understand the system.

So the NDP is in favor of setting Canadian monetary policy?

[punked]

Whats the upper limit for gas prices in those provinces? Whats the price of gas in those provinces?

The price of gas in those provinces has always been higher then the rest of Canada. Attributing it to regulation makes you look like you don't understand that. Again the regulation does not make the price higher it makes it stable so rural stations can not go out of business. I know you hate rural gas stations but that is the price we pay to have them with subsidizing them. I repeat regulation DOES NOT make the price higher. That is dumb argument.

Unlike killing babies, the NDP has talked about regulating fuel prices, which would require changing the constitution and scraping the Competion Act........Both tools that increased investment in western Canada's oil and gas industry.

Considering 5 of 10 provinces already regulate their fuel prices it is only a matter of time before they all do or don't. I don't think the NDP is looking to really open that can of worms.

As I provided in the link from the Bank of Canada site, it's a crown corp.......it sets interest rates, not the finance minister......The Liberals, Progressive Conservatives and Conservatives have traditionally followed this convention.

As the bank act reads the Finance Minister can over rule the Bank of Canada anytime they want by writing a letter. Read the bank act then we can debate about it. Before you do that it is like I am arguing with someone who knows nothing about he system. Yes they are independent as long as they are doing what the government thinks is right.

So would or wouldn't Layton weigh into setting Canadian monetary policy?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/stephen-gordon/layton-should-stay-clear-of-monetary-policy/article2003825/

I assume he would steer clear however to act like the PM should not talk about monetary policy is silly. Of course he would talk about it but the NDP believes in a Mixed Market as long as the market is in the best interest of Canadians. They have do believe the government has the right to regulate markets which are not in the best interest. What is so radical about that?

So if the Constitution isn't a big deal, why didn't they leave the old one up until the "grassroots" came up with a new one after the election?

Because we got bogged down in a name change two years ago when we should have changed it.

As a member of the CPC, I've no problem with how we set policy, some things I don't agree with (the more social issues raised during the Reform days), but I've no problem with members voicing their opinions. Is the NDP afraid of their history, since they don't have a governing record? Why does it appear the NDP is hiding their socialist past?

We aren't afraid of our history their are countless books and writings on it. I encourage you to read up you will find some really great things. There is no real socialist past in the NDP only someone who knows nothing about the History would claim such a thing that is the problem. People like yourself who know nothing but pretend they speak for the party make statements that are lies. So you get what you get. If you want actually talk about our history we can however for you to make claims you can not actually substantiate makes you look dumb and makes me not want to talk to you.

[punked]

So the NDP is in favor of setting Canadian monetary policy?

Not sure if you can't read or you are trying to get me to say what you believe. Under the Bank act the government gets the last word. That is the law, sorry if you hate Canadian law.

Now if you want to know if the NDP will over ride the Bank of Canada I think they have the same position as all other parties. Which is and I quote

"In case of a profound disagreement between the government and the Bank, the Minister of Finance can issue written instructions for the Bank to change its policies."

[Evening Star]

I'd still like to read the allegedly "old" one.

I linked it in post #36.

[Evening Star]

Unlike killing babies, the NDP has talked about regulating fuel prices, which would require changing the constitution and scraping the Competion Act........Both tools that increased investment in western Canada's oil and gas industry.

Why does this require changing the constitution? The federal government intervened in the oil industry to a greater extent than that in the 70s and 80s, right?

[RNG]

Why does this require changing the constitution? The federal government intervened in the oil industry to a greater extent than that in the 70s and 80s, right?

Right as rain. And way more harmful!

[punked]

Why does this require changing the constitution? The federal government intervened in the oil industry to a greater extent than that in the 70s and 80s, right?

Who cares half the Canadian provinces are already regulated and the sky hasn't fallen this guy just doesn't understand what regulation is he thinks it was meant to bring down prices. Which it wasn't although that doesn't stop him from claiming it a failure because it didn't bring down prices.

[Guest Derek L]

Not sure if you can't read or you are trying to get me to say what you believe. Under the Bank act the government gets the last word. That is the law, sorry if you hate Canadian law.

Now if you want to know if the NDP will over ride the Bank of Canada I think they have the same position as all other parties. Which is and I quote

"In case of a profound disagreement between the government and the Bank, the Minister of Finance can issue written instructions for the Bank to change its policies."

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/B-2/page-2.html#h-3

5. (1) The Bank shall be under the management of a Board of Directors composed of a Governor, a Deputy Governor and twelve directors appointed in accordance with this Act.

Disqualifications

(4) No person is eligible to be appointed or to continue as Governor or Deputy Governor who

(a) is not a Canadian citizen;

(is a member of the Senate or House of Commons or a member of a provincial legislature;

© is employed in any capacity in the federal public administration or the public service of a province or holds any office or position for which any salary or other remuneration is payable out of public moneys

What you're trying to quote is this:

Consultations

14. (1) The Minister and the Governor shall consult regularly on monetary policy and on its relation to general economic policy.

Minister’s directive

(2) If, notwithstanding the consultations provided for in subsection (1), there should emerge a difference of opinion between the Minister and the Bank concerning the monetary policy to be followed, the Minister may, after consultation with the Governor and with the approval of the Governor in Council, give to the Governor a written directive concerning monetary policy, in specific terms and applicable for a specified period, and the Bank shall comply with that directive.

Publication and report

(3) A directive given under this section shall be published forthwith in the Canada Gazette and shall be laid before Parliament within fifteen days after the giving thereof, or, if Parliament is not then sitting, on any of the first fifteen days next thereafter that either House of Parliament is sitting.

As RNG pointed out, like powers given to the Queen, convention states they're never used.

So again, is the NDP in favour of setting Canadian monetary policy?