We all have heard about chretien/martin paying down the debt

[fellowtraveller]

So where should the money to balance the budget have came from? The tooth fairy?

I nominate the usual source: Alberta. Those redneck fascists deserve to pay.

[Smallc]

I nominate the usual source: Alberta. Those redneck fascists deserve to pay.

I was looking for a serious alternative to what the Liberals did - that is, to cut spending and transfers.

[msj]

I was looking for a serious alternative to what the Liberals did - that is, to cut spending and transfers.

You're unlikely to get a serious alternative from anyone because what JC/PM did was pretty damn good.

Mulroney raised taxes and cut spending as much as he could.

The Liberals took over and did what was necessary (and what any conservative was too cowardly to do).

Keep in mind that JC/PM did benefit from raising taxes:

1) Mulroney started the de-indexation of the income tax brackets and tax credit amounts and the benefits from this increased each year until JC/PM ended this practice in 2001. Thank you inflation!

2) They got rid of the lifetime capital gains exemption in 1994.

3) Cutting transfers to the provinces forced provinces to raise taxes.

When you need the hard decisions to be made you elect a Liberal majority government.

Now we will get to see if the CPC will have the balls to get rid of a relatively smaller deficit problem.

[Evening Star]

The only other alternative I could suggest is what the NDP were running on in the early 90s: an extra personal income tax bracket, a wealth tax, luxury tax, inheritance tax... Who knows if it would have worked? A carbon tax as well perhaps?

[Smallc]

Mulroney raised taxes and cut spending as much as he could.

And I give him credit for that, definitely. He laid the groundwork, and JC/PM finished the job.

[Evening Star]

For the sake of argument, what do you think the consequences would have been if they had been slightly less ruthless about deficit reduction and left a little more money for health and education? Even if it meant a longer wait before we reached a budget surplus? Or even if we still had a slight deficit?

[msj]

And I give him credit for that, definitely. He laid the groundwork, and JC/PM finished the job.

Exactly.

Let's hope SH/JF may do as well with their majority government.

[Smallc]

Exactly.

Let's hope SH/JF may do as well with their majority government.

They may very well. I think a big indication will come when we see whether or not Harper shrinks cabinet. One thing I don't expect though, is that this government will cut security spending. In fact, I expect they will increase it quite significantly.

[Smallc]

For the sake of argument, what do you think the consequences would have been if they had been slightly less ruthless about deficit reduction and left a little more money for health and education? Even if it meant a longer wait before we reached a budget surplus? Or even if we still had a slight deficit?

I'm not really sure. The problem is, the larger your debt, the larger your debt service. Slaying a deficit quickly allows for more fiscal room down the road.....unless of course you do like the Conservatives and (stupidly) promise to give all debt service savings back in the form of tax breaks.

[Hydraboss]

Killing the deficit is the easiest thing in the world.

Killing the debt is the second easiest thing in the world.

Klein did it in the 90's.

Now the tough part...what are people willing to give up to do it? More to the point, are there politicians willing to give up any hope of re-election to get it done?

Essential Services

Decimate the funds for the armed forces.

Vastly reduce covered services under the public health system.

Reduce the pay of all civil servants by...what...50%?

Non-essential Services

Completely cut all arts funding.

Completely cut all costs associated with bilingualism.

Completely cut all foreign aid funding.

Taxation

Triple the taxes on Kwebek's electrical generation industry.

Triple the taxes on Alberta's oil and gas sector.

Triple the taxes on what's left of the forestry industry.

Triple the GST and apply it to absolutely everything (food, essentials, children's clothes, etc).

Double income taxes and apply it beginning at dollar one (no exemption limit).

So, how important to you is it to reduce and "slay" government debt and deficit?

[Smallc]

So, how important to you is it to reduce and "slay" government debt and deficit?

The deficit is far easier to eliminate than you suggest.

[fellowtraveller]

I was looking for a serious alternative to what the Liberals did - that is, to cut spending and transfers.

Oh, you are taking about the past again, sorry.

The actual answer in todays economy is BC,AB and SK for all the gravy in the foreseeable future. The Maritimes have structural economic issues, Quebec wouldn't contribute a farthing if they had one, Manitoba is a chronic welfare case and Ontario is still counting on an industrial base that will continue to evaporate.

So, our choices are the tooth fairy or the West to pay the bills for everybody.

[Sir Bandelot]

All pension funds work that way, if there is a surplus it doesn't belong to the pension holders. All they get is the maximum of what's promised. Any extra money beyond that usually goes to the investment companies. That how they make money

[Hydraboss]

The deficit is far easier to eliminate than you suggest.

It's called hyberbole.

I was looking for a serious alternative to what the Liberals did - that is, to cut spending and transfers.

There are only two parts to the equation. Money in and money out. If you personally don't want to change/curb spending, then the only thing left is to raise revenue.

Taxes.

So, what level of taxation are you comfortable with? Should we only add increased tax load to the "rich" (you know, those of us who make more than $50k a year)??? I have a better idea. Get rid of the base tax exemption. I'll pay the additional tax on the first 15 or 20 grand, as long as every other person in Canada does. Enough with the freeloading. Make $28000 a year? Guess what? You now pay tax on the full amount. I don't even care what the bracket percentage is...as long as they start contributing.

[Smallc]

I'm fine with the level of taxation we have now. Apparently, some here think that the Liberals should have raised taxes, since they don't think that they did the right thing by cutting spending.

[Evening Star]

I'm not really sure. The problem is, the larger your debt, the larger your debt service. Slaying a deficit quickly allows for more fiscal room down the road.....unless of course you do like the Conservatives and (stupidly) promise to give all debt service savings back in the form of tax breaks.

Good point and, yes, that is among my major reservations with the CPC. Flaherty's stint in ON does not really inspire confidence in me either.

[Evening Star]

I'm fine with the level of taxation we have now. Apparently, some here think that the Liberals should have raised taxes, since they don't think that they did the right thing by cutting spending.

I'm probably in the minority but I do think a balance of some modest and progressive tax raises combined with spending cuts that were a little less harsh might have worked... I really can't say much for sure though. (I'm still working my way through Abel's macroeconomics textbook. )

[Hydraboss]

That's my point.

Everyone seems to bitch that "the deficit" and "the debt" are "out of control". It's like they're two monsters from a Japanese movie in 1965. They are so vocal about two things: taxes are too high and spending is too high. If the government doesn't spend enough on an individual's pet project, the screaming starts that the government needs to increase spending. If the government spends money on a project that an individual doesn't agree with, the screaming starts that the government is "out of control" and there must be cronyism involved.

I say this: if the debt and deficit is too high, cut spending. Taxes in this country are way too high in my opinion, so the only thing left to do is reduce spending on the unnecessary. Arts. The french language. The CBC. Immigrant services. Foreign aid. The Olympics. Welfare. EI. Pot laws. Multiple appeals for criminals. Shawinigan fountains. Etc, etc, etc.

Why are people allowed a tax-free level? Do they not use public services? Hospitals? Roads? Why do they get a free ride? Need some more revenue? Finally make everyone pay their fair share. Invoice the bums and if they don't pay, throw them in collections.

[Oleg Bach]

Paying down the debt? Often I wonder who we pay all this money too? How much interest is there? Plus - who are these people we owe all this cash too - can't we just send in Obamas special opps and off them? lol!

[Smallc]

The french language.

That and the Olympics are about the only cuts I don't see as realistic, and it isn't because they are things that impact me. They're important to the country as a whole. A country, after all, is about more than budgeting.