Layton/NDP open to reopening constitution with Quebec

[nittanylionstorm07]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/04/26/cv-election-constitution-042611.html

Very interesting. He's smart in saying that waiting until conditions are right are good... I would hope that this would include restarting the Quebec provincial NDP and shoring up support there prior to the next Quebec election. Quebec wants Charest gone, but Marois is their only other real choice...and a terrible one at that. Having her head Quebec and reopening the Constitution would be a disaster.

See edit reply later in thread.

Edited April 26, 2011 by nittanylionstorm07

[cybercoma]

Just when we began to think the impossible was possible. Nobody wants to revisit the nightmare of Meech Lake. At least it's not an office of religious freedom.

Edited April 26, 2011 by cybercoma

[nittanylionstorm07]

Just when we began to think the impossible was possible. Nobody wants to revisit the nightmare of Meech Lake. At least it's not an office of religious freedom.

He's right, though, when he says the current situation can't last forever.

At least the Liberals would be out of the picture?

[cybercoma]

The current situation has lasted nearly 30 years and Quebec does not need to put its signature on the Constitution for it to be binding. Opening it up is a can of worms for native rights, abortion rights, gay marriage, and a bunch of other nightmarish political gordian-knots. Not a great idea.

No one is going to pay attention to the parts where he says, this is secondary to all the other things we want to do and we don't intend on opening up unless there's a reasonable chance of success. All of that will be ignored for the nightmare scenarios that reporters can cook up.

[Evening Star]

Yeah, whenever Layton or prominent members of the NDP talk about things like this, I start considering whether I should have voted Liberal.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Evening Star

[eyeball]

Layton would reopen Constitution with Quebec

No he didn't say this, he responded to a question from a reporter.

Get a grip.

Edited April 26, 2011 by eyeball

[ToadBrother]

He's right, though, when he says the current situation can't last forever.

Maybe not, but I say we should enjoy it while it lasts. I think some people weren't around or were too young to remember the nightmarish five years of constitutional wrangling around Meech Lake and Charlottetown.

If we are to do it, I think we need to get rid of the idea of packages of reform. Identify what should be reformed, prioritize it, and then one thing at a time. Even Senate reform can be broken down into pieces. Maybe work on Harper's idea of shorter term limits for Senators, or maybe a new selection model, but let's leave the much more divisive issue of how to divide senate seats up. Frankly, I think trying to create a package of reforms will just doom us to another Meech Lake and worse, to another 1995 referendum.

BTW, anybody seen the rumors running rampant in the UK that there are major changes coming to the House of Lords, the potential for most Lords to be elected by PR, for the Lords Spiritual to be expanded to Catholics, Muslims, Jews and other faiths? It obviously has its critics, who rightfully suggest that an elected Lords would be much less likely to be complacent to the will of the Commons, but I'd be interested to see what reforms may come out of it.

[TimG]

Yeah, whenever the NDP talks about things like this, I start considering whether I should have voted Liberal.

NDP is not prepared to take government. They would screw up the country if they got it - Bob Rae's Ontario Government on steroids.

[nittanylionstorm07]

NDP is not prepared to take government. They would screw up the country if they got it - Bob Rae's Ontario Government on steroids.

Bob Rae is a Liberal.

[TimG]

Bob Rae is a Liberal.

Irrevelant. The scenario playing out now is very similar to what played out when the NDP won in Ontario. If Layton gets a minority the disaster will be many times larger.

[cybercoma]

NDP is not prepared to take government. They would screw up the country if they got it - Bob Rae's Ontario Government on steroids.

Would you shut up about Bob Rae already. Not only is he a Liberal, but he was a provincial New Democrat when he was in power 20 years ago. He was also a Liberal before he became a New Democrat back in the 70s. The NDP of today has absolutely nothing to do with Bob Rae.

[ToadBrother]

Irrevelant. The scenario playing out now is very similar to what played out when the NDP won in Ontario. If Layton gets a minority the disaster will be many times larger.

You are aware that there have been other NDP governments in Canada that have not been carbon copies of the Rae government.

This is the equivalent of bringing up scary social conservatism every time Harper says something.

All the party platforms are nonsense. The odds of any majority government are very low, so all those promises are not worth a damn, and anybody voting based on platform is, to say the least, a rube.

Edited April 26, 2011 by ToadBrother

[eyeball]

Irrevelant. The scenario playing out now is very similar to what played out when the NDP won in Ontario. If Layton gets a minority the disaster will be many times larger.

Oh well you Conservatives and Liberals can always form a coalition of...I think losers is how it's usually described.

[nittanylionstorm07]

Leave it up to CBC to twist the headlines for this story...although it's entertaining to see all the Tories and Liberals screaming like they just had their pants set on fire.

[g_bambino]

Quebec does not need to put its signature on the Constitution for it to be binding.

It does if the province is not to be a colony of Canada. But, the point is moot; Quebec did put "its signature" on the constitution, in 1867, and never erased it since. This irrational myth that Quebec didn't agree to the constitution stems out of the other myth about Canada getting a new constitution in 1982 and is further fuelled and then used by Quebec separatists and sovereigntists for their own benefit. Canadians' general familiarity with their own history is appaling and that, at times, has political consequences.

[fellowtraveller]

If we are to do it, I think we need to get rid of the idea of packages of reform. Identify what should be reformed, prioritize it, and then one thing at a time. Even Senate reform can be broken down into pieces. Maybe work on Harper's idea of shorter term limits for Senators, or maybe a new selection model, but let's leave the much more divisive issue of how to divide senate seats up. Frankly, I think trying to create a package of reforms will just doom us to another Meech Lake and worse, to another 1995 referendum.

Not a bad start, but I'd suggest Jack start not with reform, but simply ensuring that every Canadian has a vote that counts. By that I mean adding the missing Commons seats that BC, Alberta and Ontario should be getting so that they are represented with the same number of seats - relative to population- enjoyed by the other provinces. As an alternative, He could also take away Commons seats, particularly from Quebec and the Maritimes, in his efforts to right basic electoral injustice in our country.

Should be a simple thing for a man with Laytons advanced sense of social justice and fairness.

[The_Squid]

Layton/NDP open to reopening constitution with Quebec

Great!! To have meaningful reforms, the Constitution needs to be amended.

Someone with the cajones to actually do their job in Ottawa??? God forbid that someone would attempt such a thing!! Talking to the Provinces to improve Canada??? Better to bury one's head in the sand?? Good for Jack!

[cybercoma]

Let's get one thing straight here.

1) Jack is not going to even going to begin looking at getting Quebec into the Constitution until he addresses more pressing concerns first (doctors and GIS)

2) When the Constitution is opened, he already remarked that it would not be so until he's relatively certain that it will be successful in getting Quebec's signature

[Evening Star]

As g_bambino noted so well, the Constitution has Quebec's signature.

[mikedavid00]

Yeah, whenever Layton or prominent members of the NDP talk about things like this, I start considering whether I should have voted Liberal.

Laton says yes to everybody and promises everything. That's just what he does. He has so many promises I can't imagine him prioritizing everything.

And everyone has been part of the NDP knows that all policy in the NDP is from Jack himself. You have to tote the party line in the NDP or you're kicked out. The NDP is a marxist party with marxist roots.

[nittanylionstorm07]

Laton says yes to everybody and promises everything. That's just what he does. He has so many promises I can't imagine him prioritizing everything.

That is one problem with conservative people.. their mindset is so much based on fear/reaction that they have a hard time understanding how rational people deal with issues.

And everyone has been part of the NDP knows that all policy in the NDP is from Jack himself. You have to tote the party line in the NDP or you're kicked out. The NDP is a marxist party with marxist roots.

Yeah. Damn that communist Saskatchewan.

[mikedavid00]

That is one problem with conservative people.. their mindset is so much based on fear/reaction that they have a hard time understanding how rational people deal with issues.

No.

Emotional reactions are a left wing trait. Conservatives are logical and sensible. When a single man runs a party, and has hundreds.. or even thousands of promises he's been cooking up over the years, he simply cannot prioritize all of them when he has to be an acting Prime Minister. Expect him to be out of country most of the time and leaving his duties to his wife while his pot head NDP MP's run rampant and ruin the country.

This isn't fear, it's logic. Something the left don't have.

[nittanylionstorm07]

No.

Emotional reactions are a left wing trait. Conservatives are logical and sensible. When a single man runs a party, and has hundreds.. or even thousands of promises he's been cooking up over the years, he simply cannot prioritize all of them when he has to be an acting Prime Minister. Expect him to be out of country most of the time and leaving his duties to his wife while his pot head NDP MP's run rampant and ruin the country.

This isn't fear, it's logic. Something the left don't have.

Emotional reactions are a left wing trait? I'm sorry, I guess I missed all of the social conservatives who have been using "logic" and "reason" to oppose same-sex marriage... not fear that their marriages would dissolve or fear of God's wrath.

[The_Squid]

Expect him to be out of country most of the time and leaving his duties to his wife while his pot head NDP MP's run rampant and ruin the country.

This isn't fear, it's logic.

This might be the funniest post on this forum ever!!! Thanks MikeDavid00 for the laugh....

Pure comedic gold!!!

[fellowtraveller]

Emotional reactions are a left wing trait? I'm sorry, I guess I missed all of the social conservatives who have been using "logic" and "reason" to oppose same-sex marriage... not fear that their marriages would dissolve or fear of God's wrath.

Of course, the left wing NDP forced all their MPs to vote as per the party line on same sex marriage. Logic, reason, fear, God or any other reason were not considered valid to oppose the Wrath of Jack. The only one who did, Ms Desjarlais who opposed SSM for strong personal religious convictions, was expelled from the NDP caucus immediately after and not allowed to run as a candidate again. I think Jack was acting emotionally to what he perceived as a challenge. And from a woman too. God forbid.... Liberals couldn't vote their conscience on a matter of conscience either, if they were Cabinet members. Only Tories- those nasty fascist bastards- were allowed by their party to vote their conscience on an issue of conscience.

Despite all these shenanigans, the House got it right, sort of.

Edited April 26, 2011 by fellowtraveller