"The Case of the Pope"

[SF/PF]

The Case of the Pope

I'm currently reading this book and I'm finding it pretty depressing, to be honest.

I am curious to get some thoughts on a particular issue raised in the book. Should the Pope, by virtue of being the leader of a "sovereign state," be protected from prosecution in other nations for crimes committed by people under his direct command, or for his own crimes in concealing said crimes?

I'd rather the topic stay on the issue of political immunity rather than turn into a debate on the veracity of specific accusations.

[eyeball]

I am curious to get some thoughts on a particular issue raised in the book. Should the Pope, by virtue of being the leader of a "sovereign state," be protected from prosecution in other nations for crimes committed by people under his direct command, or for his own crimes in concealing said crimes?

No.

I think the position of the Pope represents all that's wrong with the notion of a head of state not to mention the Westphalian system that seemingly constrains other nations from prosecuting heads of state that step out of line.

I think the crown in our country and culture symbolizes not just some supremacy of God's law, it's actually a symbol of God's authority to govern - handed down from on high through the church into the hands of the Kings and Queens to wield. Presumably the wearer of the crown would be constrained from abusing their power and their subjects by the fear of God, the church and it's priests power to excommunicate. Today we like to tell ourselves we have human laws to do this but a quick glance at the sheer amount and extent of official corruption and venality suggests something isn't working.

There is a clear demarcation between the governed and their governments and it's obvious that the relationship between the heads of state and the structure that holds them together simply facilitates a big circle jerk of power and privilege that the powerful and privileged are loath to give up.

We might be thrown the odd Karadžić or Gadaffi to chew on and we can imagine there really is some higher plane on which our stated principles stand but I don't think it'll amount to a hill of beans until such time as humanity only has one government. All the better to put our government in one place so we can keep a better eye on it but more importantly, so it doesn't have anywhere to run or hide or stand behind when it's subjects finally get tired of being shit on when it steps out of line.

I suspects we'll still need another 10,000 years or more of social evolution before we're morally or ethically capable of governing ourselves more appropriately.

Edited March 12, 2011 by eyeball

[SF/PF]

I really do recommend this book to everyone. Even if you have no interest in the particular scandals of the Catholic chruch, there are sections of the book about political philosophy (re: statehood) and international politics that are extremely interesting in their own right.

Do not read his book if you suffer from moral nausea or ethical indignation. You will be sick for weeks, and probably for much longer.

From one of the customer reviews of the book on Amazon. Fair warning.

Edited March 14, 2011 by SF/PF

[treehugger]

I really do recommend this book to everyone. Even if you have no interest in the particular scandals of the Catholic chruch, there are sections of the book about political philosophy (re: statehood) and international politics that are extremely interesting in their own right.

From one of the customer reviews of the book on Amazon. Fair warning.

I read the book (forget the name) but it was about the pope who was best friends with hitler.Amazing how they get away with so much.

one of these books was enough, I get the gist.