jbg Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) Winter would seem to be a peak time of demand for power. Is this (link, excerpts below) what you can rely on? Northern New Brunswick wind turbines frozen solid FREDERICTON A $200-million wind farm in northern New Brunswick is frozen solid, cutting off a potential supply of renewable energy for NB Power. The 25-kilometre stretch of wind turbines, located 70 kilometres northwest of Bathurst, N.B. has been completely shutdown for several weeks due to heavy ice covering the blades. GDF SUEZ Energy, the company that owns and operates the site, is working to return the windmills to working order, a spokeswoman says. "We can't control the weather," Julie Vitek said in an interview from company headquarters in Houston, Texas. "We're looking to see if we can cope with it more effectively, through the testing of a couple of techniques." She says the conditions in northern New Brunswick have wreaked havoc on the wind farm this winter. "For us, cold and dry weather is good and that's what's typical in the region. Cold and wet weather can be a problem without any warmer days to prompt thawing, which has been the case this year. "This weather pattern has been particularly challenging." Wintery conditions also temporarily shutdown the site last winter, just months after its completion. Some or all of the turbines were offline for several days, with "particularly severe icing" blamed. The accumulated ice alters the aerodynamics of the blades, rendering them ineffective as airfoils. The added weight further immobilizes the structures. Vitek says workers are trying to find a way to prevent ice buildup from occurring again in the future. The shutdown has not had any effect on employment at the site, which provides 12 permanent jobs. ************************ Despite running into problems in consecutive winters, Morton says NB Power doesn't have concerns about the reliability of the supply from the Caribou Mountain site. Suez's website states its wind farms on average produce about 35 per cent of their capacity on an annual basis, accounting for daily and seasonal fluctuations in wind patterns. David Coon, executive director of the Conservation Council of New Brunswick, says winter tends to bring higher winds to the province, which would push wind farms to produce more power. Edited February 16, 2011 by jbg Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Keepitsimple Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 Who needs more power in the winter anyway? Quote Back to Basics
Wild Bill Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 Who needs more power in the winter anyway? A LOT of people, Keeps! Electric heat is very common in Eastern Canada, especially in Quebec. Their electricity is not nearly as expensive as it is in Ontario. Nobody has built a new home with electric heat in Ontario in about 30 years. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
waldo Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 what? ... apparently, you have nothing to say about all the world-wide successful wind farm deployments - go figure. Do you scour the interweeb for these type of nuggets, hey jbg? in any case, project/location specific... engineering solution required - no biggee... many existing northerly climate locations exist, without problems. Imagine... technology advances in the face of challenges: GE Energy’s 2.5xl Wind Turbine Now Offers Extreme Cold Weather Capabilities for Challenging Applications in North America and Europe GE 2.5xl Wind Turbine Now Prepared for Extreme Cold WeatherE Energy’s most advanced wind turbine, the 2.5xl, is now available with a Cold Weather Extreme (CWE) package. The addition of the CWE package ensures that the 2.5xl wind turbine can operate in temperatures as low as -30°C, and in survival mode without operation, at temperatures as low as -40°C. Quote
jbg Posted February 16, 2011 Author Report Posted February 16, 2011 what? ... apparently, you have nothing to say about all the world-wide successful wind farm deployments - go figure. Do you scour the interweeb for these type of nuggets, hey jbg?No, I found it on a random visit to my e-subscription to the www.canada.com family of newspapers. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Wild Bill Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) what? ... apparently, you have nothing to say about all the world-wide successful wind farm deployments - go figure. Do you scour the interweeb for these type of nuggets, hey jbg? in any case, project/location specific... engineering solution required - no biggee... many existing northerly climate locations exist, without problems. Imagine... technology advances in the face of challenges: GE Energy’s 2.5xl Wind Turbine Now Offers Extreme Cold Weather Capabilities for Challenging Applications in North America and Europe Waldo, I read the link and it says NOTHING about ice buildup! Lots of stuff about cold weather but apparently in this instance that wasn't the problem. In the Maritimes ice buildup can be incredible! The high humidity of air coming in from the ocean coupled with the cold means that ice can build up to incredible levels. I vividly remember how as I kid I saw a water tower for our village near Dartmouth ice up between the tripod legs all the way to just under the tank! Of course, most of that was from condensation from the cold water in the tank but still, it illustrates the phenomenon. Actually, it's milder temperatures that aggravate the problem! That area of the country, being warmed by the Gulf Stream, routinely has periods where the temperature is close to the freezing point of water, so that when moist air hits the cold material of a wind turbine one could see how it might condense and freeze. The very motion of the turbine at slow speeds might make things worse. I'm just throwing out ideas here but the fact remains, the link said nothing about ice. Are you aware of other companies or countries in a similar humidity/temperature situation that have coped with this problem? This still leaves the question of why no one predicted it happening in the first place. 'Course, they are politicians so we can't expect much from them in scientific or technical matters... Edited February 16, 2011 by Wild Bill Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
GWiz Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 Waldo, I read the link and it says NOTHING about ice buildup! Lots of stuff about cold weather but apparently in this instance that wasn't the problem. In the Maritimes ice buildup can be incredible! The high humidity of air coming in from the ocean coupled with the cold means that ice can build up to incredible levels. I vividly remember how as I kid I saw a water tower for our village near Dartmouth ice up between the tripod legs all the way to just under the tank! Of course, most of that was from condensation from the cold water in the tank but still, it illustrates the phenomenon. Actually, it's milder temperatures that aggravate the problem! That area of the country, being warmed by the Gulf Stream, routinely has periods where the temperature is close to the freezing point of water, so that when moist air hits the cold material of a wind turbine one could see how it might condense and freeze. The very motion of the turbine at slow speeds might make things worse. I'm just throwing out ideas here but the fact remains, the link said nothing about ice. Are you aware of other companies or countries in a similar humidity/temperature situation that have coped with this problem? This still leaves the question of why no one predicted it happening in the first place. 'Course, they are politicians so we can't expect much from them in scientific or technical matters... I have OLD friends in Moncton and Halifax and they've never seen bad weather to the extent they've had this year... Storm after storm after storm, with super "sea surges" and ocean spray... Tough year (winter) in the Maritimes... Quote There are none so blind, deaf and dumb as those that fail to recognize, understand, and promote TRUTH...- GWiz
waldo Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 Are you aware of other companies or countries in a similar humidity/temperature situation that have coped with this problem? a quick search shows at least a dozen players with solutions for either a combination of ice detection and de-icing or ice detection alone ... solutions brought to market, as much to deal with concerns over lost efficiency due to ice impacting turbine blade aerodynamics, or concerns over safety and the 'launching' of ice projectiles off the blades. Significant solutions have been deployed in Scandinavian and Russian wind farms... also read a reference to what had been a problem location in the Swiss Alps adjacent to a ski resort area (re: safety concerns over 'flying ice' off the blades). in this NB problem example, they needed to shut down for only a couple of days last year - this year, a significant shutdown that reflects the 'uniqueness' of this years Maritime weather, as Gwiz highlights... so, as I suggested, an engineering solution will be forthcoming. Quote
fellowtraveller Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 in this NB problem example, they needed to shut down for only a couple of days last year - this year, a significant shutdown that reflects the 'uniqueness' of this years Maritime weather, as Gwiz highlights... so, as I suggested, an engineering solution will be forthcoming. any engineering solutions forthcoming on the real problem, which is that they cannot relaibly produce any kind of constant or predictable output of electricity? Quote The government should do something.
Wild Bill Posted February 16, 2011 Report Posted February 16, 2011 any engineering solutions forthcoming on the real problem, which is that they cannot relaibly produce any kind of constant or predictable output of electricity? Good point! We still don't seem to have easy and cheap methods of storing the energy. I would have thought that New Brunswick would be putting the bulk of their investment into tidal power. I can't think of many sources more reliable than tides! Surely for the brief period between the directions of the tidal flows in the Bay of Fundy they could dam off a large reservoir to keep the turbines continuously spinning. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Keepitsimple Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 A LOT of people, Keeps! Electric heat is very common in Eastern Canada, especially in Quebec. Their electricity is not nearly as expensive as it is in Ontario. Nobody has built a new home with electric heat in Ontario in about 30 years. Sorry....thought you got my wry sense of humour. Should have put after it. Quote Back to Basics
waldo Posted February 17, 2011 Report Posted February 17, 2011 any engineering solutions forthcoming on the real problem, which is that they cannot relaibly produce any kind of constant or predictable output of electricity? care to qualify and extend upon your suggestions of unreliable, non-constant and unpredictable outputs related to wind generation? Quote
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