Immigration in British Columbia

[Politicians_r_clowns]

This is an election issue primarily for those residing in British Columbia, because personally, I don't think any other Province has such a high visible minority rate amongst their population.

It should also be noted that I have no political affilaition, although I do belong to a private sector union.

Despite this I won't be voting NDP as many of you might assume, in fact I don't know anyone in the union who votes NDP anymore.

1) because of the high cost of living in this Province.

2) Immigration!!!

If there is one concerning issue amongst cacausion working class males in this Province, its the drastic explosion in BC's ethnic communites over the last decade.

I've been around long enough to realize minorites within nation states aren't treated fairly, and despite people's visions of a grand mulit ethnic utopia, I have to question the wisdom of making one a minority in one's own Province.

Perhaps if I didn't plan on having children it wouldn't bother me so much, but I do, so their economic interests and opportunities will be a concern for me, and I myself have expierenced "heavy" reverse discrimination, working briefly for a punjabi run business.

Even though we tolerate each other, if one group could wave a magic wand wishing the other way, we'de promptly do so.

What irratates me the most is that B.C. appears to have become a dumping ground for specific ethnic groups in this Province, in order to bolster liberal electoral support.

(I realize people can settle where they want.)

Certain ethnic communities (I'm trying to be politically correct here) are also very effective at signing up everyone in their community to make sure they dominate the riding associations, personally the corruption sickens me.

Plus, recently the liberals have merged my community with an ethnic dominated community to ensure that B.C. gets another seat to parliment, a liberal one of course.

I don't know any working class caucasions in this Province who vote liberal. I'm not advocating for the Conservatives either, because, they love thier cheap labour, and personally, I don't think they have the guts to do anything.

I just want out of this friggen country, gone, seperate, cut the ties with Ontario, off to the U.S.

label me a bigot, a exnophobe and so forth if you like, I'm not an out here to debate the merits of multiculturalism, I'm just an average joe who's fed up with this countries politcal process.

[Alliance Fanatic]

I personally think that the immigration rate is too high, it should be set at 100,000 people. But at the same time you do have a point about ethnic groups voting in blocks, Chuck Cadman lost his seat in BC due to the fact that the person opposing him was Sikh I believe, and all the sikh candidate had to do was get thousands of people of the same ethnic group. The left can yell racism all they want, but the fact is that currently balkanization is occuring in Canada, due to leftist policies.

I think that the problem is with 100% multiculturalism, immigrants should assimilate into Canada adopt our law code, and our democracy.

[Kiraly]

A.F.

Cadman lost the nomination battle to represent the Conservatives, but he hasn't lost the seat yet. Actually, polls suggest he may be re-elected as an Independent.

[Bionic Antboy]

....The left can yell racism all they want, but the fact is that currently balkanization is occuring in Canada, due to leftist policies.

I think that the problem is with 100% multiculturalism, immigrants should assimilate into Canada adopt our law code, and our democracy.

What do you mean by "adopt our law code, and our democracy."?

Sounds like they are doing just that, getting involved with politics on a personal level and taking it seriously.

[sarcasm]How DARE they get involved with the Canadian political system! The OUTRAGE![/sarcasm]

Is it a fault that the ethnic community is more active in politics, or is it the fault of the Caucasian, for not being involved enough?

(If, indeed, there is anyone to assign fault to in the first place)

[BigGunner]

I personally think that the immigration rate is too high, it should be set at 100,000 people. But at the same time you do have a point about ethnic groups voting in blocks, Chuck Cadman lost his seat in BC due to the fact that the person opposing him was Sikh I believe, and all the sikh candidate had to do was get thousands of people of the same ethnic group. The left can yell racism all they want, but the fact is that currently balkanization is occuring in Canada, due to leftist policies.

I think that the problem is with 100% multiculturalism, immigrants should assimilate into Canada adopt our law code, and our democracy.

You will be happy to know that according to Compass polling firm, Independent Chuck Cadman is leading in Surrey North with 40% followed by the NDP at 25%. Compass even went as far as polling people to find out what their generic voting pattern would be, and if Cadman wasn't running, it would be an NDP seat (37% NDP, Cons and Libs at 25% each)

Cadman will likely keep his seat because of a local multi-partisan groundswell of support against the kind of tactic that was used to oust Cadman in the 1st place.

I wonder though, if this kind of outrage would exist if other ethnic minorities used the political process in the same way the CPC candidate used it when he corralled a lot of indo-Canadian voters? Meaning, what if it was white coloured Portuguese, or Italian, or German communities that rallied behind 'one of their own'? It just seems that because the CPC fellow is East Indian, and obviously non-white, that the whole process must be corrupt...(sarcasm)

Here is the Compass Poll that identifies 12 key ridings, including Surrey North and Chuck Cadman

[Alliance Fanatic]

Actually the problem is that some ethnic groups are thinking in terms of a mob. What the mob does, the individual does. I think that everybody should be an individual, and a large problem with the nomination battle was the only real reason that candidate won it, was due to the large numbers of members who were of a certain ethnic group to support him. Everybody should also remember that if white males believe that they will soon be aliens in their own land than racism will sky rocket, which is why the immigration rate should be lowered.

[BigGunner]

Actually the problem is that some ethnic groups are thinking in terms of a mob. What the mob does, the individual does. I think that everybody should be an individual, and a large problem with the nomination battle was the only real reason that candidate won it, was due to the large numbers of members who were of a certain ethnic group to support him. Everybody should also remember that if white males believe that they will soon be aliens in their own land than racism will sky rocket, which is why the immigration rate should be lowered.

I cannot beleive you wrote that racist crap.

As a white male, you do not speak for me, and I 100% disagree with your viewpoint.

I obey the laws, pay my taxes, and am comfortable in the company with any ethnic minority - whether they are white or not...christian, islamic, buddhist, or whatever..

What ethnic groups would you be referring to, btw?

Do you think that perhaps these non-white CITIZENS are also concerned about healthcare, education, infrastructure, taxes, and just about every other issue that is important to every other white Canadian?

What I do realise though is that many foreign born Canadian citizens cannot wait for elections...its often a right that they were denied in the old country that they came from - or that the election process was often deadly.

[Argus]

....The left can yell racism all they want, but the fact is that currently balkanization is occuring in Canada, due to leftist policies.

I think that the problem is with 100% multiculturalism, immigrants should assimilate into Canada adopt our law code, and our democracy.

What do you mean by "adopt our law code, and our democracy."?

Sounds like they are doing just that, getting involved with politics on a personal level and taking it seriously.

[sarcasm]How DARE they get involved with the Canadian political system! The OUTRAGE![/sarcasm]

Is it a fault that the ethnic community is more active in politics, or is it the fault of the Caucasian, for not being involved enough?

Do you suggest that the "white" community actively work to sign up only white members who will only vote for white candidates?

The fact is this is one of those issues the media doesn't dare talk about. But reverse racism accounts for almost all the ethnic minority MPs in parliament. A particular visible minority member will agitate among his own people, then sign up hundreds or thousands of them to swamp a local riding association. And the only reason those people will do so is to get one of "their people" elected.

There are several things which really need to be done amongst all the parties. To start with they need to ban non-citizens and those under 18 from voting. If you can't vote in the election you've no business deciding who the candidates will be. Second, they need to cut off voting rights from new members until after the next election. Ie, if you join the riding association in September, and an election is coming in December, you don't get to vote on who will be your party's representative for another year or two.

I don't know about the rest of you, but if I was an active party member for some years, doing the unsung grunt work for my party and riding association, and a month before an expected election hundreds, or even thousands of brand new members, all signed up for the express purpose of electing "their guy" as our candidate (their guy not even having been a party member himself until recently), well, I'd be mightily pissed off, regardless of whether they were ethnics or not. These are not party members, and you all know it. They're drawn in to vote for "their guy" and that's the last you'll see of them in the party until next election.

It's not health for the system at all. And when you add ethnic origins into the mix it inspires racial resentment and dislike.

[Alliance Fanatic]

I was talking against balkanization, the fact is that balkanization can become a major problem. For example if people find they have nothing in common with third or more generation Canadian's, than they may shut themselves completely off from other Canadian's. It is a problem, do you ever see mass droves of whites trying to elect only white candidates because they are simply white. It's becoming a problem, especially when politicians feel the need to pander to certain ethnic groups instead of individuals.

Unless you fully support balkanization, and people voting for a person simply because of their ethnic background.

[Alliance Fanatic]

I was talking against balkanization, the fact is that balkanization can become a major problem. For example if people find they have nothing in common with third or more generation Canadian's, than they may shut themselves completely off from other Canadian's. It is a problem, do you ever see mass droves of whites trying to elect only white candidates because they are simply white. It's becoming a problem, especially when politicians feel the need to pander to certain ethnic groups instead of individuals.

I meant that when immigrants come here they must abide by our laws, and our democracy. What that means is that no different laws for different ethnic groups. I was refering to the Sharia court being put in place, as well as the different law's some natives are judged under.

Unless you fully support balkanization, and people voting for a person simply because of their ethnic background.

[Politicians_r_clowns]

I was talking against balkanization, the fact is that balkanization can become a major problem. For example if people find they have nothing in common with third or more generation Canadian's, than they may shut themselves completely off from other Canadian's. It is a problem, do you ever see mass droves of whites trying to elect only white candidates because they are simply white. It's becoming a problem, especially when politicians feel the need to pander to certain ethnic groups instead of individuals.

Unless you fully support balkanization, and people voting for a person simply because of their ethnic background.

I don't think you have to apologize for your comments Alliance Fanatic, I don't view them as rascist, they actually reflect the feelings of many working class caucasions in B.C.

Balkanization, as you call it, is an issue out here, a major issue. Its not something that's being whipped up out of our exnophobic heads, its simply a hard reality, there is corruption and there is block voting.

Its no suprise that Uijal Dosanjh is now running for the Liberals, its been well documented by the media, as to the tactics he employed to ensure his nomination as Glen Clark's successor.

This being said, the christian right has played the same game as well, (ie Val Merdith), the only difference is that they are a substantial minority, who are not going to put me in minority status within the next 20 years.

I'm seriously starting to think that the liberal party has some hidden agenda for B.C. , it just seems too obvious, its almost laughable.

And because I don't think any other party will differ once they come to power, I think its time for B.C. to pack up, and join the U.S.

[willy]

Politicians r clowns and AF,

Please stop. This is racism.

Chuck should have worked harder to have more members, it was purely his fault he lost the nomination.

We should stop mass sign ups but it is not a race issue. In south Surrey a white candidate did the same thing.

It also happens to Liberals and NDP alike. The NDP have a good policy in regards to this, I think that you have to be a member for 9 weeks before you can vote. (Please correct me if I didn't get the exact time frame) The Liberals and Conservatives have a much shorter time frame.

As for immigration numbers, we need as many as we can get. Our population is shrinking and we are going to need a tax base to support our Baby Boom generation as they move to gerital.

Harper has one good initiative on this issue; we need to recognize immigrant professional’s credentials quicker so we can benefit from this diversity.

I live in Vancouver and let me tell you it is great eating having the world at your door.

A am really pissed that I had to agree with BigGunner. Thanks a lot and open your mind.

[BigGunner]

A am really pissed that I had to agree with BigGunner. Thanks a lot and open your mind

I don't know whether to hug you or slap you...

Seriously though, this country was built on immirgration...firstly from Europeans fleeing oppression and persecution, then by peoples of other non-european nations looking for a better life.

It was only a matter of time before non-white citizens discover that public office is a right they can persue as well, and party politics can be an effective way to achieve change.

Instead of ranting against some indo-canadians who organised themselves into helping a friend seek federal office, do something productive. Seek office yourself and launch a membership drive of your own. The party (whomever they are) would never protest new, paid up memberships, and you get a pool of supporters that would help you in a campain, doing all the crappy jobs like erecting signs or calling voters...etc

It IS racist to suggest that those of non-european cultures be forced to give up their language or customs. As long as everyone pays their share of taxes and obeys the laws, then its non of your or anyone elses business. Period

Imagine what the natives thought at the first sight of the white man, 500 years ago.

Instead of being turned off by non-whites, open your eyes and ears, and mind...you might notice that they are interested in much the same issues that everyone else is.

[willy]

Imagine what the natives thought at the first sight of the white man, 500 years ago.

Not a good example as a white man I must say we don't have a good record on aboriginal relations. The Indian Act being a great example.

But aside I still agree with the other statements.

[idealisttotheend]

I have a problem with what I see as a trend towards the balkanization of Canada, especially in BC. I have not the slightest problem with immigrants or immigrants running for office or being involved politically, I think it is great. What I do have a problem with is the trend towards one ethnic group getting together to support one of "their own" soley based on the nominee's ethnicity. If the nominee was white they'd never ever get away with it, they'd be labeled racist in no time at all. But it is apparently okay if the nominee is anything but white.

Diefenbaker's unhyphenated Canadianism may be a forgotten dream but we must deal with the dark side of Tredeau's multiculturalism. Tredeau himself had absolutely no use for people who saw things based on ethnicity and that's why he was such a strong federalist. But many of his policies had the opposite effect of that he intended in some instances. We have in this country groups of people who have nothing in common other than their racial or ethnic group. Schools catering to one ethnicity towards the trend towards soley ethnic criminal gangs. Letting people keep their "beliefs" and "customs" is well and good and I fully support it. However when people start choosing their school, the place they shop and their politician based on whether or not they have a similiar ethnicity above all else, it becomes problematic in the extreme and dangerous to the ultimate survival of our country.

The history of this country is that people of different ethnicities lived together, worked together and found ways to integrate not segregate themselves. People retained their own culture but they also became part of a larger Canadian culture. We are losing that larger culture and we can't effectively live together in the long term without it. It is the hardest thing about this country, creating that pan-Canadian culture, but it must be done. People of any given race cannot simply segregrate themselves and move, shop and vote in blocks. They must find common ground with their neighbours of different ethnicity as well.

Don't think it's important. Look at the former Yugolslavia. Look at Rwanda. Look at Indonesia. Tell me integration of different ethnicities is not essential towards our surviva as a cohesive nation.

[playfullfellow]

As a white European immigrant, I can understand the feeling of coming to Canada for a better life. We do have a better life in Canada because we have a freedom of choice here, more than a lot of other countries. We adjusted our lives to become Canadians and took up Canadian traditions. We still enjoy our European traditions at home and pass these traditions onto our kids as part of their heritage. Canada was built on a Christian foundation, but we have seen this being slowly eroded over the years, we can't even enjoy the true meaning of Christmas anymore, for the cause of multiculturism.

I see no harm in expecting immigrants to intigrate into our society and adjust to the foundations this country was built on. If all immigrants can do whatever they want to, then why did I work my ass off to learn English and Canadian values? Because I am proud to be in Canada, my home. My home is not the country I left but I still have a part of that in my home. I believe in respecting other peoples ideas and values but I also expect the same in return. I do not get that from some cultures just because I am white and of a Christian background.

People call you a bigot when you suggest limiting or stipulating the types of immigrants that may come this country but Canada also needs to look at who will benefit Canada. If we need doctors, we need to bring in doctors. If we have a surplus of computer techs, then why do we bring in more computer techs? All they do is end up at menial jobs getting paid a lot less than they would in their chosen profession. All they do is bitch then be they an immigrant or Canuck. We find that we have a large demand for labourers in this country now so why not bring in people who are skilled at building houses and using their hands? This is not discrimination but building the nation. I don't care what colour a person is, they could be purple for all I care as long they are able to add to Canada as a nation.

As for stacking votes, well everybody does is it. It is a fact of life. I think this can be curtailed a lot by minimum membership times, say 3 months, this way people who help to build a party and do all the hard work can reap the benefits from their hard work. If you feel that you were wronged by a stacked vote, get all of your friends to help you the next election. Thats why we have them every few years.

[BigGunner]

I have a problem with what I see as a trend towards the balkanization of Canada, especially in BC. I have not the slightest problem with immigrants or immigrants running for office or being involved politically, I think it is great. What I do have a problem with is the trend towards one ethnic group getting together to support one of "their own" soley based on the nominee's ethnicity. If the nominee was white they'd never ever get away with it, they'd be labeled racist in no time at all. But it is apparently okay if the nominee is anything but white.

Diefenbaker's unhyphenated Canadianism may be a forgotten dream but we must deal with the dark side of Tredeau's multiculturalism. Tredeau himself had absolutely no use for people who saw things based on ethnicity and that's why he was such a strong federalist. But many of his policies had the opposite effect of that he intended in some instances. We have in this country groups of people who have nothing in common other than their racial or ethnic group. Schools catering to one ethnicity towards the trend towards soley ethnic criminal gangs. Letting people keep their "beliefs" and "customs" is well and good and I fully support it. However when people start choosing their school, the place they shop and their politician based on whether or not they have a similiar ethnicity above all else, it becomes problematic in the extreme and dangerous to the ultimate survival of our country.

The history of this country is that people of different ethnicities lived together, worked together and found ways to integrate not segregate themselves. People retained their own culture but they also became part of a larger Canadian culture. We are losing that larger culture and we can't effectively live together in the long term without it. It is the hardest thing about this country, creating that pan-Canadian culture, but it must be done. People of any given race cannot simply segregrate themselves and move, shop and vote in blocks. They must find common ground with their neighbours of different ethnicity as well.

Don't think it's important. Look at the former Yugolslavia. Look at Rwanda. Look at Indonesia. Tell me integration of different ethnicities is not essential towards our surviva as a cohesive nation.

We need to stop with the stereotyping and generalizations...

In Richmond BC, where almost half of the entire population is of Chinese decent, all the major parties end up with Chinese-Canadians on the ballot...

In my riding, all of the contestants are white...that is the general make up of my seat...that doesnt mean that everyone is white, but that is the overwhelming reality.

The ethnic make up of the ballot is usually representative of what the community is..

Speaking of Chuck Cadman, that scenario you talk of might have done him in...but in a riding that he is so overly popular, why didn't he compete and sign up 4000 of his own supporters? His margin of victory in 2000 could have produced enough supporters for that cause.

Nonetheless, thanks to that stunt, the conservative candidate is looking at a 12% vote share according to a Compass poll done for 12 key ridings...that means that the people are not fooled and will likely support Chucky..

[willy]

Not to be picky BigGunner but last election in Richmond Joe Peskaleto (spelt his last name wrong and to lazy to look it up) won. As it turns out many in the Chinese community are conservative and they did not support Raymond Chan in the last election. Just goes to show that people will also vote with their value system.

[BigGunner]

Not to be picky BigGunner but last election in Richmond Joe Peskaleto (spelt his last name wrong and to lazy to look it up) won. As it turns out many in the Chinese community are conservative and they did not support Raymond Chan in the last election. Just goes to show that people will also vote with their value system.

There you go...a local election in which race wasnt a factor. If the majority Chinese-Canadians of Richmond can defeat "one of their own" then I guess it isn't so bad after all.

If I am not mistaken, the 2000 federal election in Van-Kingsway, three of the main parties had candidates with the last name of Wong.

Lets leave this race/politics issue alone now.

[Politicians_r_clowns]

Politicians r clowns and AF,

Please stop. This is racism.

As for immigration numbers, we need as many as we can get. Our population is shrinking and we are going to need a tax base to support our Baby Boom generation as they move to gerital.

I live in Vancouver and let me tell you it is great eating having the world at your door.

A am really pissed that I had to agree with BigGunner. Thanks a lot and open your mind.

No this is not racism, it has nothing to due with rascism, there is a general consenus in this Province that immigration is out of hand, if people start voting on racial lines, then maby that tells you something about the route were going.

Plus, if a community develops strongly negative pre-conceptions about another community, its not, lack of having an open mind, ignorance or being short sighted, there is usually some strong validity to it.

I have a wide range of eclectic friends, and they agree with me, they know what the deal is, and what's going on, they may not be caucasion but thier grounded in reality.

This is no time to be an idealist dreamer, there are people coming here with masters degrees cleaning toilets at Subway, I'm a working class white male, I recognize I've attianed my status through economic hegemony, and I'm not going to give it up by becoming a minority

Outside of the odd diehard, I don't know any workng class caucasions that vote NDP anymore, simply because they don't have anything to offer us. times have changed.

Two more things, the last consensus in Richmond showed the Chinese population at 64% not 30%, and no we don't need more immigration to support are tax base, it actually contributes a nominal effect, a tax cut works much better.

[takeanumber]

Isn't there a general rule about having one account...you can't smurf on these boards.

[Argus]

Politicians r clowns and AF,

Please stop. This is racism.

Bull.

We should stop mass sign ups but it is not a race issue. In south Surrey a white candidate did the same thing.

Mass sign ups when done by ethnics, however, tend to involve ONLY members of their ethnic group. In other words, masses of people signing up simply to vote for someone of THEIR race ONLY because he's of their race. THAT is racism. Though I notice you aren't calling them on it.

As for immigration numbers, we need as many as we can get. Our population is shrinking and we are going to need a tax base to support our Baby Boom generation as they move to gerital.

This is not true. Studies of immigration and aging show that we need far fewer immigrants to balance our aging population. Further, a large percentage of the immigrants we get are unsuccessful, which means that instead of helping to support social services they are consuming them. Further, many immigrants are also middle aged or older, meaning they will be retiring around the same time as the baby boomers. So what use will they be?

If people think that Canada and it's cultural value system and traditions are good, then why are they so eager to see them swamped by massive waves of people from other cultures who are clinging to their old ways, cultures, traditions and values? This is not a racist issue any more than Quebec wanting to hold onto its culture is a racist issue.

[Argus]

Actually the problem is that some ethnic groups are thinking in terms of a mob. What the mob does, the individual does. I think that everybody should be an individual, and a large problem with the nomination battle was the only real reason that candidate won it, was due to the large numbers of members who were of a certain ethnic group to support him. Everybody should also remember that if white males believe that they will soon be aliens in their own land than racism will sky rocket, which is why the immigration rate should be lowered.

I cannot beleive you wrote that racist crap.

Why? It's true. We've seen innumerable examples of mobs of ethnics swamping riding associations across the country in order to get one of their own nominated. Sometimes it's multiple ethnics, then you just have to count the number of Indians and the number of Chinese to figure out which one is going to win.

Do you think that perhaps these non-white CITIZENS are also concerned about healthcare, education, infrastructure, taxes, and just about every other issue that is important to every other white Canadian?

One would hope so. Unfortunately, in too many cases it seems their primary concern is that the person they vote for share their skin colouring.

[Argus]

Seriously though, this country was built on immirgration...

Where every man had a gun and knew how to use it. But I bet you'd say times have changed and that we don't want that any more.

Instead of ranting against some indo-canadians who organised themselves into helping a friend seek federal office, do something productive. Seek office yourself and launch a membership drive of your own.

And go only to Whites and tell them that you will represent the White community, and look after its interests, and that they should come down to support you because they too are White? Yeah. You'd condemn that as racist in a second, but you can't see it among non-whites.

It IS racist to suggest that those of non-european cultures be forced to give up their language or customs.

Bullshit. I'll go further. If they don't want to give up their language and customs they should never have been allowed into Canada in the first place, and should be booted out now. If they have no intention of joining with this country, of integrating into Canadian society and taking on on traditions and values I don't want them here. If they want to keep to their old customs, language and traditions let them keep to their old homes too.

Imagine what the natives thought at the first sight of the white man, 500 years ago.

And look what happened to them! Europeans swamped them and soon their language, culture, traditions and way of life were gone. Their laws were brushed aside as quaint and stupid, and the newcomers wrote their own laws and made their own rules which the natives were required to obey. You want that to happen to us?

[takeanumber]

Sad.Grim.Pathetic.