Geo Engineering

[GostHacked]

The Difference in our Skies. Contrails, Chemtrails and Geo-Engineering.

Waldo got me to some thinking. Since I don't think the CO2 is a huge threat as it is made out to be, I decided to really look into this some. But I think I got slightly sidetracked in trying to disprove Waldo and the information he posts. This is not an anti-Waldo post at all. He got me thinking about my position about the global warming, and if it is man made. Which leads to the question of what do we do about it IF it is in fact a real threat. Michael Hardner has asked this question as well in a thread he created. So this could interest him as well. Actually this will be of interest to everyone very soon.

So here is how I noticed a difference in our skies.

----------------

Born and raised in Sudbury Ontario. Did my flying lessons for a small single engine craft. Did not complete it however, because I bought a car, and ran out of money (that was not one of my brighter moments, trust me). I've always loved aircraft and have always been looking up and checking out the skies. The skies were nice and blue over Sudbury. I've watched the planes go by and the trails were always very short, taking up a few inches of the sky and quickly fading away. There was nothing there out of the ordinary that I had ever witnessed.

This all changed when I moved to Ottawa near the end of 96. I had noticed the trails in the sky now and then but never really thought anything else of them, I think I started noticing them in about 2005. My focus changed to computers and IT and went back to school for that. So I did not pay attention to the sky as much as I used to. I was an avid cyclist and was always out on the bike when I could. Hitting the streets and country roads around the Ottawa area. But a few years ago I really started to noticed the trails appearing over Ottawa and parts of Quebec. They were occuring more often which kind of was hard to ignore after a while.

I did some searching online and found others had noticed it as well. People on the net where calling them 'chemtrails'. That sounds scary. So I started searching for 'chemtrails'. I got the conspiracy sites and other crazy stuff which I am not sure if I want to believe in. I was not sure what to think of it all, but I just know that what I see is not normal. I was getting nowhere searching for 'chemtrail'. I started searching using the terms the scientists were using. That brought be to 'aerosol' and 'geo engineering'. Now things started to fall into place. Government sites, private corporations are involved with this project. I just don't know the extent and how long it has been going on.

One proposition to combat global warming is to spray aerosols into the atmosphere to reflect the sunlight back into space. This would essentially cool the planet by creating artificial cloud cover to sheild the earth from the sun. In my searches there were two names that came up often, Bill Gates (of MS fame) and this Canadian scientist David Keith at the U of Calgary.

http://people.ucalgary.ca/~keith/

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=geoengineering-how-to-cool-earth

The question usually is, what are we going to do about it. But I think the real question is what are we already doing about it, and if so, how long have we been doing it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding

http://www.nawcinc.com/wmfaq.html

Now cloud seeing is nothing new. And the method/technology to deliver the aerosol into the air has existed since the 40s. There were extensive tests over the UK in the 40s by aircraft outfitted with aerosol dispensers. This technology is about 70 years old.

Cloud seeding was even proposed in 1981 by a Canadian scientist.

http://archives.cbc.ca/environment/extreme_weather/clips/9040/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_radiation_management

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_reflectivity_enhancement

Companies that cloud seed.

http://www.weathermodification.com/

http://www.texasweathermodification.com/

I think the trails in the sky are part of a huge effort to combat global warming.

My videos

http://www.youtube.com/user/g0sth4ck3d?feature=mhsn

I'll post more links in my next post.

[wyly]

The Difference in our Skies. Contrails, Chemtrails and Geo-Engineering.

Waldo got me to some thinking. Since I don't think the CO2 is a huge threat as it is made out to be, I decided to really look into this some. But I think I got slightly sidetracked in trying to disprove Waldo and the information he posts. This is not an anti-Waldo post at all. He got me thinking about my position about the global warming, and if it is man made. Which leads to the question of what do we do about it IF it is in fact a real threat. Michael Hardner has asked this question as well in a thread he created. So this could interest him as well. Actually this will be of interest to everyone very soon.

So here is how I noticed a difference in our skies.

----------------

Born and raised in Sudbury Ontario. Did my flying lessons for a small single engine craft. Did not complete it however, because I bought a car, and ran out of money (that was not one of my brighter moments, trust me). I've always loved aircraft and have always been looking up and checking out the skies. The skies were nice and blue over Sudbury. I've watched the planes go by and the trails were always very short, taking up a few inches of the sky and quickly fading away. There was nothing there out of the ordinary that I had ever witnessed.

This all changed when I moved to Ottawa near the end of 96. I had noticed the trails in the sky now and then but never really thought anything else of them, I think I started noticing them in about 2005. My focus changed to computers and IT and went back to school for that. So I did not pay attention to the sky as much as I used to. I was an avid cyclist and was always out on the bike when I could. Hitting the streets and country roads around the Ottawa area. But a few years ago I really started to noticed the trails appearing over Ottawa and parts of Quebec. They were occuring more often which kind of was hard to ignore after a while.

I did some searching online and found others had noticed it as well. People on the net where calling them 'chemtrails'. That sounds scary. So I started searching for 'chemtrails'. I got the conspiracy sites and other crazy stuff which I am not sure if I want to believe in. I was not sure what to think of it all, but I just know that what I see is not normal. I was getting nowhere searching for 'chemtrail'. I started searching using the terms the scientists were using. That brought be to 'aerosol' and 'geo engineering'. Now things started to fall into place. Government sites, private corporations are involved with this project. I just don't know the extent and how long it has been going on.

One proposition to combat global warming is to spray aerosols into the atmosphere to reflect the sunlight back into space. This would essentially cool the planet by creating artificial cloud cover to sheild the earth from the sun. In my searches there were two names that came up often, Bill Gates (of MS fame) and this Canadian scientist David Keith at the U of Calgary.

http://people.ucalgary.ca/~keith/

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=geoengineering-how-to-cool-earth

The question usually is, what are we going to do about it. But I think the real question is what are we already doing about it, and if so, how long have we been doing it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding

http://www.nawcinc.com/wmfaq.html

Now cloud seeing is nothing new. And the method/technology to deliver the aerosol into the air has existed since the 40s. There were extensive tests over the UK in the 40s by aircraft outfitted with aerosol dispensers. This technology is about 70 years old.

Cloud seeding was even proposed in 1981 by a Canadian scientist.

http://archives.cbc.ca/environment/extreme_weather/clips/9040/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_radiation_management

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_reflectivity_enhancement

Companies that cloud seed.

http://www.weathermodification.com/

http://www.texasweathermodification.com/

I think the trails in the sky are part of a huge effort to combat global warming.

My videos

http://www.youtube.com/user/g0sth4ck3d?feature=mhsn

I'll post more links in my next post.

once geo-engineering has begun and it is not matched with a reduction in emissions we're truly cooked should the engineering stop for any reason....

[GostHacked]

once geo-engineering has begun and it is not matched with a reduction in emissions we're truly cooked should the engineering stop for any reason....

Once it has begun? I think it's been going on for a couple decades at the very least. I have pics of a family trip in Sault Ste Marie (Ontario/Michigan border) in 1977, that shows these trails.

[Shwa]

Once it has begun? I think it's been going on for a couple decades at the very least. I have pics of a family trip in Sault Ste Marie (Ontario/Michigan border) in 1977, that shows these trails.

If I recall correctly, when I was a kid in the early 70's there were always long trails from jets, sometimes the trails would be there for over 30 minutes.

[GostHacked]

If I recall correctly, when I was a kid in the early 70's there were always long trails from jets, sometimes the trails would be there for over 30 minutes.

Well as I said I never saw then in Sudbury before I moved to Ottawa and had not seen them in Ottawa until about 2005.

Also more news on mitigation/solutions.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/Space+mirrors+algae+global+warming/3901160/story.html

Mirrors in space, iron fillings in the ocean, and snow blankets. Huh? But this is more to my point that we need to reforest areas and plant trees!!!

[wyly]

Once it has begun? I think it's been going on for a couple decades at the very least. I have pics of a family trip in Sault Ste Marie (Ontario/Michigan border) in 1977, that shows these trails.

contrails aren't geo engineering...they've no more effect on weather than cirrus clouds...only serious attempts at controling weather that I'm aware of is that done by China...

[GostHacked]

contrails aren't geo engineering...they've no more effect on weather than cirrus clouds...only serious attempts at controling weather that I'm aware of is that done by China...

Do some searching online, it's more extensive than you think. I did not understand the scope until I started looking into it. Aerosol spraying is happening, and what you see in the sky that lasts for hours are I think a result of that.

[Shwa]

Well as I said I never saw then in Sudbury before I moved to Ottawa and had not seen them in Ottawa until about 2005.

Also more news on mitigation/solutions.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/Space+mirrors+algae+global+warming/3901160/story.html

Mirrors in space, iron fillings in the ocean, and snow blankets. Huh? But this is more to my point that we need to reforest areas and plant trees!!!

Interesting since I recall the long lasting jet trails even in Ottawa in the mid 70's. Are you saying they were seeding the skies from commercial jets even back then?

[GostHacked]

Interesting since I recall the long lasting jet trails even in Ottawa in the mid 70's. Are you saying they were seeding the skies from commercial jets even back then?

It is a possibility. Like I said the technology has existed since the 40s. Although tweaked for today's purposes. Sometimes you can see a couple planes at the same time. One with a long persistant trail, and one with a normal contrail, practically right beside each other. The vid I had posted from my youtube, you can see some of that in there.

[wyly]

Sometimes you can see a couple planes at the same time. One with a long persistant trail, and one with a normal contrail, practically right beside each other.

but that can be the difference between two different planes with dissimilar engines designs and fuel efficiencies or they could be flying at different altitudes and air temperatures and humidity, from the ground planes flying at 30K and 25K will look to be at the same altitude

[Bonam]

Modifying the environment using our technology is something mankind has been doing for millenia. As our technology increases, so too does the scale on which we modify the environment. Today, that scale is global, or close to it, though we also continue to shape our environment on smaller scales. Cloud seeding is but one of many techniques we have at our disposal. Anyway, modifying the Earth's environment is really just a subset of the much wider field of terraforming, that is, making environments of other bodies Earth-like, in other words, capable of sustaining human life. There has been a wide range of research conducted on this topic.

Realistically, the problem of small changes in CO2 concentration in the Earth's atmosphere and the resultant effects on temperature is a small thing, and will be trivially solved with the technology and methods that we will have at our disposal later in the current century. Additionally, I strongly suspect that we will at some point purposefully control the Earth's climate on a global scale so as to increase its carrying capacity. There are vast areas of the world that are relatively inhospitable, and by altering wind and ocean currents (and other techniques) could be made more suitable for high density habitation.

[waldo]

Realistically, the problem of small changes in CO2 concentration in the Earth's atmosphere and the resultant effects on temperature is a small thing, and will be trivially solved with the technology and methods that we will have at our disposal later in the current century.

notwithstanding your most optimistic musings... within the broader debate today, we're left with a "moral hazard", where just the concept of geo-engineering, (whether wildly & optimistically possible, or not), presents an avenue for lowered concern by suggesting/implying the most dire climate impact projections can simply be managed... ultimately harboring a weaker commitment to cutting emissions now... which, of course, plays right into denier strategies that presume to delay (any) action to reduce emissions in favour of some magic geo-engineering silver bullet.

from the TED talks series... David Keith

[GostHacked]

Wlado, I'd like to stay away from the denier bit you love to trot out. That is not what this thread is for. I want to talk about the geo-engineering and what that will mean for us and the whole planet. If these 'chemtrails' are part of it, then we are already seeing it globaly. Canada, the US, most of Europe, China and parts of Africa.

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/21stC/issue-2.1/huyghe.htm

Talks about how we have already been geo-enginnering the planet in many ways. Our way of life is a prime example of that. We live at the gross expense of the rest of the planet.

http://coto2.wordpress.com/2010/10/18/geoengineering-gambling-with-gaia/

Geoengineering is the intentional, large-scale manipulation of the Earth’s systems by artificially changing oceans, soils and the atmosphere. More than a set of technologies, however, it is a political strategy. Rather than nurturing and protecting biodiversity, geoengineering aims to create conditions that will allow us to sustain the excesses that brought on the current ecological and social crisis. It also allows the governments responsible for almost all historic greenhouse gas emissions to sidestep compensating the global South, which is not culpable in climate change but suffering its effects. In other words, geoengineering offers a technological “fix” to the same governments and industries that both created the climate crisis and failed to adopt policies that would mitigate its damage.

We can never go back to what the earth was like 100-150 years ago. We have permanently altered the earth to our needs. And C02 is but ONE of the many issues we need to find a solution for. But I think we really need to clean up the place first, getting rid of toxins and heavy pollution which will help in CO2 reduction. At this rate we are not making any progress.

I agree something needs to be done, but we have already been trying to solve the issue, from what I can see. The fact that many of us have no clue this is actually happening shows that the political entities that tell us AGW is an issue, they have not told us what they are already doing about it. And that scares me more than the Co2 problem.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/may/14/bill-gates-cloud-whitening-dangerous

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,003,186.PN.&OS=PN/5,003,186&RS=PN/5,003,186

It is stuff like this that kind of scares me. The materials that are proposed that we use to combat global warming. This is a real patent, and there are many of these kind of patents related to geo-engineering to combat/mitigate global warming. This patent was files in March of 1991.

What is claimed is:

1. A method of reducing atmospheric warming due to the greenhouse effect resulting from a layer of gases in the atmosphere which absorb strongly near infrared wavelength radiation, comprising the step of dispersing tiny particles of a material within the gases' layer, the particle material characterized by wavelength-dependent emissivity or reflectivity, in that said material has high emissivities with respect to radiation in the visible and far infrared wavelength spectra, and low emissivity in the near infrared wavelength spectrum, whereby said tiny particles provide a means for converting infrared heat energy into far infrared radiation which is radiated into space.

2. The method of claim wherein said material comprises one or more of the oxides of metals.

3. The method of claim 1 wherein said material comprises aluminum oxide.

4. The method of claim 1 wherein said material comprises thorium oxide.

5. The method of claim 1 wherein said particles are dispersed by seeding the stratosphere with a quantity of said particles at altitudes in the range of seven to thirteen kilometers above the earth's surface.

6. The method of claim 1 wherein the size of said particles is in the range of ten to one hundred microns.

7. The method of claim wherein said material comprises a refractory material.

Do we know what the effects of dumping aluminum oxides are into the atmosphere on this scale? And thorium oxide?? We know in enough quantities these metal oxides can do much damange to the human body, what about the environment on the whole?

One proposed solution to the problem of global warming involves the seeding of the atmosphere with metallic particles. One technique proposed to seed the metallic particles was to add the tiny particles to the fuel of jet airliners, so that the particles would be emitted from the jet engine exhaust while the airliner was at its cruising altitude. While this method would increase the reflection of visible light incident from space, the metallic particles would trap the long wavelength blackbody radiation released from the earth. This could result in net increase in global warming

Why would this even be proposed when the result can very well mean a net increase in temperature???

Good read here, lots of info.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/tag/geoengineering/

But look at the proposals and aerosol spraying is the most common, and the most common materials proposed are sulfur,aluminum,thorium oxides and barium nitrates. Then look at your skies and do the math. I think it is already happening, if that is the case, why don't we know more about it? And why have we not generally been informed? Most people I talk to have no idea what this is all about, they simply shrug it off and go back to whatever it is they were doing.

[waldo]

... within the broader debate today, we're left with a "moral hazard", where just the concept of geo-engineering, (whether wildly & optimistically possible, or not), presents an avenue for lowered concern by suggesting/implying the most dire climate impact projections can simply be managed... ultimately harboring a weaker commitment to cutting emissions now... which, of course, plays right into denier strategies that presume to delay (any) action to reduce emissions in favour of some magic geo-engineering silver bullet.

from the TED talks series... David Keith

Waldo, I'd like to stay away from the denier bit you love to trot out. That is not what this thread is for. I want to talk about the geo-engineering and what that will mean for us and the whole planet.

no... your MLW posting history is clear... I'll sum up your latest posts where you offer a degree of token acknowledgment to accepting AGW, as nothing more than a concern troll display - your rapid transformation was quite remarkable - hey?. Given your MLW posting history, I certainly question your motives in the latest multiple thread postings where you're now "investigating/advocating" for geo-engineering.

aside from your personal history/position, one can't preface any discussion on geo-engineering without accounting for what I alluded to earlier... the "moral hazard" (re: David Keith's talk). Anyone with any interest in actually discussing geo-engineering must recognize key/prominent deniers & denier organizations are pushing for geo-engineering in the context of delaying any moves to reduce emissions. Just recently, the long avowed denier charlatan Lomborg, suddenly recants, accepts AGW and starts to prominently advocate for geo-engineering (movie, book tour), with a main theme that we have 30-40 years before anything really needs to be done. Of course, prominent denier think tanks are hot for geo-engineering - again, in the context of doing nothing today to curb emissions (the Heartland Institute, the Cato Institute, the American Enterprise Institute, the Hoover Institution, the Reason Foundation, and the Hudson Institute, all have turned to supporting geo-engineering... while at the same time vociferously targeting the U.S. EPA in it's latest moves to regulate emissions). Delay, delay, delay... "trust in geo-engineering" - the denier order of the day!

[GostHacked]

no... your MLW posting history is clear... I'll sum up your latest posts where you offer a degree of token acknowledgment to accepting AGW, as nothing more than a concern troll display - your rapid transformation was quite remarkable - hey?. Given your MLW posting history, I certainly question your motives in the latest multiple thread postings where you're now "investigating/advocating" for geo-engineering.

I am a AWG denier, I won't deny that and I make no apologies about it. If you think I am a troll, hit that little report button on the side, no one is forcing you to participate in this thread.

aside from your personal history/position, one can't preface any discussion on geo-engineering without accounting for what I alluded to earlier... the "moral hazard" (re: David Keith's talk). Anyone with any interest in actually discussing geo-engineering must recognize key/prominent deniers & denier organizations are pushing for geo-engineering in the context of delaying any moves to reduce emissions. Just recently, the long avowed denier charlatan Lomborg, suddenly recants, accepts AGW and starts to prominently advocate for geo-engineering (movie, book tour), with a main theme that we have 30-40 years before anything really needs to be done. Of course, prominent denier think tanks are hot for geo-engineering - again, in the context of doing nothing today to curb emissions (the Heartland Institute, the Cato Institute, the American Enterprise Institute, the Hoover Institution, the Reason Foundation, and the Hudson Institute, all have turned to supporting geo-engineering... while at the same time vociferously targeting the U.S. EPA in it's latest moves to regulate emissions). Delay, delay, delay... "trust in geo-engineering" - the denier order of the day!

Geo-engineering is a proposed solution to the problem. And why all of a sudden are people going to geo-engineering anyways? That means we have fucked this planet 1000 ways to Sunday and we are beyond any natural solution to the issue. This is the part that concerns me, that we have polluted the planet to a degree that this becomes a necessar evil. I don't need the CO2 angle to show that we need to fix things, I have already stated that toxic pollutions are the issue, and if you want for your purposes you can throw CO2 in there as well, if that makes you happy.

But in the end you can just stay out of the thread.

[waldo]

I am a AWG denier, I won't deny that and I make no apologies about it.

we do not accept your sham, concern troll, geo-engineering diversion!

Geo-engineering is a proposed solution to the problem.

what problem? You've just denied the problem exists... exactly what are you "geo-engineering" for? To what end, for what purpose... your latest farcical attention to "chemtrails" ain't bout your favoured go-to, "toxic pollution".

And why all of a sudden are people going to geo-engineering anyways? That means we have fucked this planet 1000 ways to Sunday and we are beyond any natural solution to the issue. This is the part that concerns me, that we have polluted the planet to a degree that this becomes a necessar evil. I don't need the CO2 angle to show that we need to fix things, I have already stated that toxic pollutions are the issue, and if you want for your purposes you can throw CO2 in there as well, if that makes you happy.

those with legitimate concerns are looking at the concept as risk management... in the event of a worst case scenario... without precluding the need to actually begin to reduce emissions - today. As I said, deniers are advocating for it as a pacifier, as a means to delay emission reductions, today, for a presumed silver-bullet solution, tomorrow.

But in the end you can just stay out of the thread.

are you the board keeper? Do you hold the keys... no? Didn't think so...

[GostHacked]

we do not accept your sham, concern troll, geo-engineering diversion!

Uh huh.

what problem? You've just denied the problem exists... exactly what are you "geo-engineering" for? To what end, for what purpose... your latest farcical attention to "chemtrails" ain't bout your favoured go-to, "toxic pollution".

I deny the issue exists. However there are those like yourself who think there IS a problem. This is a thread about those possible solutions. I don't beleive in God but that does not stop me from participating in those threads.

those with legitimate concerns are looking at the concept as risk management... in the event of a worst case scenario... without precluding the need to actually begin to reduce emissions - today. As I said, deniers are advocating for it as a pacifier, as a means to delay emission reductions, today, for a presumed silver-bullet solution, tomorrow.

I am not advocating it at all. I am simply pointing out I think it has been already been in practice for some time.

are you the board keeper? Do you hold the keys... no? Didn't think so...

No, but this is my thread. And I set it up. If you want to stay on topic feel free to discuss, if you want to troll the 'troll' then I will ask you kindly to have a seat.

[waldo]

you deny an AGW related problem exists... while forcefully advocating for "toxic pollution" cleanup... simplistically suggesting that combating "toxic pollution" will, indirectly, "just take care of CO2" (that you don't accept as a problem - huh!). All of this done in the context of a geo-engineering impetus. You present reams of linked articles that presume to suggest, collectively, some conspiratorial angle to active/ongoing geo-engineering.

you deny an AGW related problem exists... that any problem exists (other than what you choose to label as "toxic pollution"). What's your personal purpose/intent/agenda in initiating a thread on geo-engineering... on a concept with a sole purpose intended to combat the worst case scenarios of climate change... related to projections on a problem that you state doesn't exist... that you don't accept. Suffice to say, your charade has been exposed.

But in the end you can just stay out of the thread.

are you the board keeper? Do you hold the keys... no? Didn't think so...

No, but this is my thread. And I set it up. If you want to stay on topic feel free to discuss, if you want to troll the 'troll' then I will ask you kindly to have a seat.

no - this is not your thread... this is a board thread - one that you started. You hold no position to suggest what get's discussed in this thread, or who may participate.

[Radsickle]

Some Baboons will accuse me of sporting a tin-foil tophat, and I've been skeptical about it... but I recently watched the October-released Documentary "What in the world are they spraying?!" online and... well... those clouds aren't normal.

The most convincing footage for me is the super-powered-lens, close-up video of a huge plane flying along with no contrails. Then, like someone inside flipping a switch or opening a valve, friggin' clouds start spewing out of the wings, waaaay up there.

Hope I'm not reposting something you all already have seen... Check it out:

What in the world are they spraying?!

[Bonam]

Some Baboons will accuse me of sporting a tin-foil tophat, and I've been skeptical about it... but I recently watched the October-released Documentary "What in the world are they spraying?!" online and... well... those clouds aren't normal.

The most convincing footage for me is the super-powered-lens, close-up video of a huge plane flying along with no contrails. Then, like someone inside flipping a switch or opening a valve, friggin' clouds start spewing out of the wings, waaaay up there.

Hope I'm not reposting something you all already have seen... Check it out:

What in the world are they spraying?!

Umm, when a plane transitions into a region of appropriate humidity or pressure, it can start to form condensation trails where before it was not forming any. This can happen almost instantly, as you describe, as if someone "flipped a switch". That's because water condensing from its vapor to liquid phase due to the pressure drop caused by the plane's passage is a process that either happens or does not happen, there is a precise threshold value. Either the pressure drop is sufficient, or it is not. The plane could be passing through a region of increasing humidity, for example. On one side of a given point in the air, the humidity is just a tad too low, on the other side it is a tad past the threshold. The moment it passes it, instantly, the condensation trails will start to form.

[Radsickle]

Umm, when a plane transitions into a region of appropriate humidity or pressure, it can start to form condensation trails where before it was not forming any. This can happen almost instantly, as you describe, as if someone "flipped a switch". That's because water condensing from its vapor to liquid phase due to the pressure drop caused by the plane's passage is a process that either happens or does not happen, there is a precise threshold value. Either the pressure drop is sufficient, or it is not. The plane could be passing through a region of increasing humidity, for example. On one side of a given point in the air, the humidity is just a tad too low, on the other side it is a tad past the threshold. The moment it passes it, instantly, the condensation trails will start to form.

You can wax scientific as much as you want, if it makes you feel good. But I f'ing aced physics in high school, buddy, and I'm telling you someone opened a valve. I think the footage I speak of is in the 5th or 6th part of the 7 part online doc.

Please check it out before you, umm, condescend.

[Bonam]

You can wax scientific as much as you want, if it makes you feel good. But I f'ing aced physics in high school, buddy, and I'm telling you someone opened a valve. I think the footage I speak of is in the 5th or 6th part of the 7 part online doc.

Please check it out before you, umm, condescend.

Dude if you want someone to look at a specific few seconds of footage, you can do better than say "5th or 6th part". Grats on high school physics lol.

[Radsickle]

Dude if you want someone to look at a specific few seconds of footage, you can do better than say "5th or 6th part". Grats on high school physics lol.

each part is approx. 15 minutes long. Got the time to post this much? Got the time to watch the 5th and 6th part.

8:41pm - 7:03pm = lots 'o time to watch the footage instead of attempting juvenile prodding.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Radsickle

[Bonam]

each part is approx. 15 minutes long. Got the time to post this much? Got the time to watch the 5th and 6th part.

Incorrect.

[Radsickle]

ooh, well said, Speak 'n Spell.