Public Service Bloats...

[Michael Hardner]

You "sense??!" Aren't you the guy that told people on another thread that you had enough of the anecdotes and now you are talking about your feelings? Good one!

I'm not predicting that this will happen by any means, I'm just guessing that there's enough discontent out there to start something. I would never use such an anecdote as evidence of wider problems.

Two examples: Example 1 - a manager uses his staff to run personal errands, and tells them to charge the time to an internal administrative account. Can I use this anecdote as "proof" that managers in this organization are corrupt ? No. Example 2 - same example but the time is charged as "idle". In this case, I can use the example because a single example of misuse (charged as "idle") should set off alarm bells to resource planners.

But beside that many bits and pieces of governmental services are contracted out, but of course you knew this. Right?

Many ? Many. Right.

Notwithstanding the high interest I have in your idea that "the people" will get politicians "to butt out" you might be closer to something as government services centralize. It is much easier to centralize an operations within one of two locations than it is with a hundred locations spread out across this vast nation of ours. So give it some time.

There's nothing else to give but time. I can only wait on this one - no other options.

However, I wouldn't want some private company handling my personal information - or the databases of everyone else's information, when their bottom line is profit. One of the most powerful tools the government has in redistributing the wealth is in their bureaucracy. Most politicians are very aware of this fact and sometimes a local politician might lobby a minister or two to get some services located to their municipality.

What - you mean like a bank, a pharmacy or a health clinic ? Their bottom line is profit, but that seems to work for most of these services.

As for using local political graft and influence as a reason that things can't change... The big picture, man, the big picture.

My preference is the local-regional-national/provincial model where services are delivered from 'satellite' offices with the advantage being that the local offices - with staff from that locality - are better able to deliver tailored programs to that population. It allows a more refined approach, including the reporting requirements that are 'rolled up' to the regional reporting mechanism and so on. You will find this model played out in the various 'service centre' concepts currently being rolled out by the federal and Ontario provincial government (i.e. you can go into an office and get your health card, driver's licence, fishing license, etc.)

Yes, and these models are happening along the lines of what I'm suggesting.

However, I also see that some services, like call centres, processing centres, administrative functions, etc. are being nationally and provincially centralized into some localities, some of them hard hit by unemployment or other economic factors. I suppose these centralized services could be privatized, but is a slight gain in efficiency (for the present) worth the long term inflexibility or cost of administering such contracts? I don't see any politician of any worth risking those sorts of goodies for his constituents do you?

What you lose is the political interference, and the attendant rework and bungling that comes with it.

[Shwa]

I'm not predicting that this will happen by any means, I'm just guessing that there's enough discontent out there to start something. I would never use such an anecdote as evidence of wider problems.

Two examples: Example 1 - a manager uses his staff to run personal errands, and tells them to charge the time to an internal administrative account. Can I use this anecdote as "proof" that managers in this organization are corrupt ? No. Example 2 - same example but the time is charged as "idle". In this case, I can use the example because a single example of misuse (charged as "idle") should set off alarm bells to resource planners.

I dunno. I don't think you will ever convince resource planners that some sort of lag is unnaceptable. Interpersonal politics plays a part in everything from the local eatery to the deputy ministers.

Many ? Many. Right.

Can you name some?

There's nothing else to give but time. I can only wait on this one - no other options.

Not really. You could write your local MP or MPP! LOL! Just kidding...

What - you mean like a bank, a pharmacy or a health clinic ? Their bottom line is profit, but that seems to work for most of these services.

You mean the low level staff hired on because they are cheap and end up not giving a crap. Heck, forget government services, lets talk about customer service overall!

As for using local political graft and influence as a reason that things can't change... The big picture, man, the big picture.

Things can change in my fantasy world, but most politicians don't go along with that since it would be the immediate cause of their demise. In the real world - that of a long, endless march of civilization, well, graft, man, graft! Besides, one man's graft is another man's opportunity. You don't have to be a politician for that.

Yes, and these models are happening along the lines of what I'm suggesting.

Well... there ya go then.

What you lose is the political interference, and the attendant rework and bungling that comes with it.

Oh ye of little faith, how long have you been observing the human race?

[Michael Hardner]

I dunno. I don't think you will ever convince resource planners that some sort of lag is unnaceptable. Interpersonal politics plays a part in everything from the local eatery to the deputy ministers.

At one point in the past, parties used to fire entire branches of the civil service and hire their friends.

Can you name some?

We don't build our own vehicles for example, or cook the food if employees are working late and need to eat.

Not really. You could write your local MP or MPP! LOL! Just kidding...

Why just kidding ?

You mean the low level staff hired on because they are cheap and end up not giving a crap. Heck, forget government services, lets talk about customer service overall!

I'm saying your point about private companies and private data is a non-starter. Low wage workers are more important to treat better because they have options.

Things can change in my fantasy world, but most politicians don't go along with that since it would be the immediate cause of their demise. In the real world - that of a long, endless march of civilization, well, graft, man, graft! Besides, one man's graft is another man's opportunity. You don't have to be a politician for that.

It's that thing where they *think* they want what they want. They don't realize that endless interference in service delivery doesn't help them, and hinders reform and streamlining of operations.

Well... there ya go then. Oh ye of little faith, how long have you been observing the human race?

You're the one of little to no faith. I think that we could simplify, and outsource service delivery and make the process better and cheaper. You seem to me to have worked in the system for too long, so you think it can never be changed.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Where to start though? Would it not be wise to harness the energy of some groundswell of support, hijack the effort then head it in a different direction so it could be used to force the changes you desire?

Make a big deal about the civil service at this point in time and you will be missing the big boat. The government is at least on board with the "its all about the economy, stupid" train and can take that as its starting point. The government is spinning a nice little web of crap today, a very good pre-election stance. What needs to be done is to point out that the last transfer of public funds into private ventures cost the tax payer 62 billion dollars. The so-called stimulus package benefited business, not the citizens, and those funds are now lost to us. A better use of those funds would have been to invest in some crown corporations, directly hire thousands of people to work on building and staffing production facilities. The capital investment can be recouped through an IPO with the employees at the head of the table. The north needs to be developed and this is the way to do it, while at the same time the public service can be rationalized in the name of the effort! The government must be seen giving with one hand and taking with the other, that is the true nature of government. Good government does things in balanced manners, its really about a method of political effort that we call democracy. The sheer numbers of the unwashed public are fully aware of their ability to vote and support political efforts. They are just rarely tempted to do so.

[Argus]

I'm saying your point about private companies and private data is a non-starter. Low wage workers are more important to treat better because they have options.

Now back to the real world, where low skill workers are quite easy to replace, and so are treated like crap - speaking as someone who has in the past worked a number of low skill jobs, from busboy to security guard to janitor to data entry sweatshops.

[Michael Hardner]

Now back to the real world, where low skill workers are quite easy to replace, and so are treated like crap - speaking as someone who has in the past worked a number of low skill jobs, from busboy to security guard to janitor to data entry sweatshops.

Hmm... ever tried to hire a waiter or kitchen staff ? Where I live, it's tough to find these people and keep them. If you are going to treat them like crap, they will go elsewhere - because it costs the employer exactly $0 to be nice to people.