Canadian government LOANS ONE BILLION

[Topaz]

So taxpayers are paying this loan, and interest, to the Brazilian mining giant and its being called corporate welfare. The Tories already gave away 1 bil to the US lumber industry and I'm questioning who are they standing up for, Canadian workers or foreign businesses?? http://communities.canada.com/VANCOUVERSUN/blogs/politics/archive/2010/10/04/1-billion-loan-to-brazilian-mining-giant-called-quot-corporate-welfare-quot.aspx

[capricorn]

I'm no business or market expert, but this deal seems to have a few goodies that will flow into Canada's economy. Looks like Vale is one of the biggest players in its business field.

Export Development Canada said the financing package for Vale would create "hundreds of millions" of dollars in opportunities for Canadian supply and services companies.

"EDC's relationship with Vale provides for significant potential benefits for Canada, both in Canadian mining and processing projects and in international opportunities for Canadian equipment suppliers and engineering firms," said Eric Siegel, president and CEO of the Crown corporation.

"The recent global recession has emphasized that diversification of markets will be key to growing Canada's exports in the coming years. Vale's global operations provide opportunities for Canadian companies to gain a foothold in key emerging markets like Brazil."

Siegel said Vale has nearly doubled its Canadian procurements over the past few years.

About half of the $1-billion loan will be available for future purchases of Canadian goods and services by Vale for its operations outside this country, or to support Vale exports involving signed contracts with Canadian suppliers.

An additional $250 million will be available for projects slated for development in Ontario.

Terms of the loan weren't released, but EDC said it was underwritten at market rates.

http://www.brandonsun.com/business/breaking-news/export-development-canada-to-provide-vale-with-us1-billion-in-financing-help-104278554.html?thx=y

[M.Dancer]

A loan is welfare?

From Topaz's lips to God's ears....that all welfare receipiants be required to pay back their benefits at market rates.

[dre]

A loan is welfare?

From Topaz's lips to God's ears....that all welfare receipiants be required to pay back their benefits at market rates.

That depends on the situation. Government financing can certainly be corporate welfare. Youd have to look at the terms of the loan, and compare them with the terms the company could have gotten if they got financing from the private sector, investment bank, or what-have-you.

[punked]

Valve can take and shove it. After they locked out hundreds of Canadians from their jobs in a mine that made them 1 billion dollars in profits the year before I have had with them. Shame on the government for letting them buy the mine, Shame on the government for letting them break the miners, Shame on the government for continuing their support for this company which has no interest in Canada or Canadians. A race to the bottom that is all Valve is for, and the Canadian government should have never gotten in bed with them.

[GostHacked]

I am going to say this is a result of loss profits because of the 14 month strike for the former INCO now Brazilian company. Regardless of the strike, there are more home building projects starting there than I have ever seen in my entire life. The people employed by the company were not hurting at all. Part of the reason they held out so long. When working many can make double their wage because they get a cut of the profits when nickle sells well on the market. Many can make over $100,000 easy if they do it right.

So it's 14 months of profit that this company lost. Not like I have much sympathy for this foreign entity or any corporation that loses money.

Both mines/corporations were Canadian owned. Now INCO has become Vale (Brazil), and Falconbridge has become Xtrada (Switzerland). The profits no longer stay in Canada. They should be asking their home host countries for a loan.

Companies will always break the promise of 'keeping jobs local'. That much is clear.

[M.Dancer]

That depends on the situation. Government financing can certainly be corporate welfare. Youd have to look at the terms of the loan, and compare them with the terms the company could have gotten if they got financing from the private sector, investment bank, or what-have-you.

From the link above...

Terms of the loan weren't released, but EDC said it was underwritten at market rates.

[M.Dancer]

Valve can take and shove it. After they locked out hundreds of Canadians from their jobs in a mine that made them 1 billion dollars in profits the year before I have had with them. Shame on the government for letting them buy the mine, Shame on the government for letting them break the miners, Shame on the government for continuing their support for this company which has no interest in Canada or Canadians. A race to the bottom that is all Valve is for, and the Canadian government should have never gotten in bed with them.

Companies should only have their shareholder as an interest. They should also be allowed to buy and sell their assets without socialists interfering. If you don't like it, become an activist shareholder and circulate a proxy opposing the move. If you have support of the shareholders, then you win. Otherwise whine..

[GostHacked]

Companies should only have their shareholder as an interest. They should also be allowed to buy and sell their assets without socialists interfering. If you don't like it, become an activist shareholder and circulate a proxy opposing the move. If you have support of the shareholders, then you win. Otherwise whine..

Shareholders are in it for one thing only. To make money. They care not how it is done, even if it is at the expense of peoples livelihood. They have a legit reason to 'whine'.

[M.Dancer]

Shareholders are in it for one thing only. To make money. They care not how it is done, even if it is at the expense of peoples livelihood. They have a legit reason to 'whine'.

Of course they care how it is done. They want it done efficiantly and profitably. Anything that affects shareholder value is a concern to shareholders.

People have to come to grips that companies are not social welfare organizations

[capricorn]

Valve can take and shove it. After they locked out hundreds of Canadians from their jobs in a mine that made them 1 billion dollars in profits the year before I have had with them.

Vale did not lock out the workers, they chose to go on strike and choose to remain on strike.

On Sunday, after talks led by veteran mediator Kevin Burkett broke down, Vale opted to go to union members directly to vote on a five-year pact. The company had previously rejected a proposal by union leadership to go to binding arbitration to settle the strike which has gone on since July.

The union's bargaining committee had unanimously recommended that members reject the offer.

The company says it still hopes to find a settlement that protects the business in the long term and meets employee needs.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2010/03/12/vale-inco-sudbury.html#ixzz11gYnQ5YR

[Rick]

Valve can take and shove it. After they locked out hundreds of Canadians from their jobs in a mine that made them 1 billion dollars in profits the year before I have had with them. Shame on the government for letting them buy the mine, Shame on the government for letting them break the miners, Shame on the government for continuing their support for this company which has no interest in Canada or Canadians. A race to the bottom that is all Valve is for, and the Canadian government should have never gotten in bed with them.

Precisely.

If they have a billion of OUR tax dollars to lend out, it should go directly back into CANADIAN TAXPAYERS pockets not into foreign corporate pockets.

Simply appalling but then I've come to expect this of the Harper government's lack of ethics when it comes to throwing our tax dollars around frivolously.

See: Fake Lakes and ridiculous security spending for G8/G20

[Topaz]

The opposition are also saying that the 6 Bil cuts in corporate tax means they have to borrow that money plus pay interest on it. So were do taxpayers come ahead? The economy is supposed to be in a recovery and I've heard for the US it will take 3-5 years to come out of it and since our economy is so tied to the US, then what is the Tories going to do about that. EI, will probably increase once the stimulus package is done because the private section isn't really hiring. It getting to be that whatever the Tories say, think the opposite!

[capricorn]

It getting to be that whatever the Tories say, think the opposite!

It beats apathy.

[capricorn]

If they have a billion of OUR tax dollars to lend out, it should go directly back into CANADIAN TAXPAYERS pockets not into foreign corporate pockets.

And I say, if Ignatieff has 1 billion per year, not one time but per year of our tax dollars to give away, it should go directly back to taxpayers.

[Rick]

And I say, if Ignatieff has 1 billion per year, not one time but per year of our tax dollars to give away, it should go directly back to taxpayers.

Ignatieff, Harper or whomever is holding power...

I'm with you on this.

Enough with the corporate welfare. Businesses should either sink or swim on their own money, not with the aid of our tax dollars.

Especially, foreign corporations.

[capricorn]

Ignatieff, Harper or whomever is holding power...

As things stand, whoever is in power is bound to spend money it does not have. The only way to replenish the Treasury's funds is to either raise taxes or make prudent investments that will generate jobs where workers will pay taxes in order to replenish the Treasury. Canadians are taxed to the hilt and will not stand for tax increases. Social programs such as home care for ailing Canadians are noble and in good times they should be given serious consideration. But the country is presently broke (as are most provinces) and it cannot afford to expand social safety nets. It is imperative that the economy be made healthy again so that down the road more Canadians can benefit from its bounty.

[Topaz]

As things stand, whoever is in power is bound to spend money it does not have. The only way to replenish the Treasury's funds is to either raise taxes or make prudent investments that will generate jobs where workers will pay taxes in order to replenish the Treasury. Canadians are taxed to the hilt and will not stand for tax increases. Social programs such as home care for ailing Canadians are noble and in good times they should be given serious consideration. But the country is presently broke (as are most provinces) and it cannot afford to expand social safety nets. It is imperative that the economy be made healthy again so that down the road more Canadians can benefit from its bounty.

I would say most Canadians would agree with your view BUT the Tories had 13 Bil and they spent that plus another 54 BIL and they aren't done yet spending. There are people who need help and all their lives they pay taxes to three levels of government and now there's no help for them out there.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I would say most Canadians would agree with your view BUT the Tories had 13 Bil and they spent that plus another 54 BIL and they aren't done yet spending. There are people who need help and all their lives they pay taxes to three levels of government and now there's no help for them out there.

What a shock! Tax dollars being spent by politicians in a manner not in the best interests of the people. Stop with the handouts, to both people and business. Pay off the debt, trim the civil service and get back to a balanced budget with a savings account instead of using a credit card when the debit card is out of cash. Time to start running the government the way we run our own homes. It is our home, its is not a business, and it should never be setup to run a profit. Should the government desire to get into a business there is the means to do so though crown corporations. That is another story.

[capricorn]

Should the government desire to get into a business there is the means to do so though crown corporations. That is another story.

Actually, Export Development Corporation (EDC), who negotiated the loan to Vale which is the subject of the OP, is one such crown corporation.

EDC is a Crown corporation that reports to Parliament through the Minister of International Trade. The corporation operates on commercial principles, and works in partnership with other government agencies and the private sector to increase the competitiveness and success of Canadian companies abroad.

EDC’s strength in financial services, innovative insurance and bonding products, international networks, and its in-depth analysis of global economic conditions, helps the corporation tailor solutions to the needs of Canadian exporters and investors.

EDC is financially self-sustaining. Its treasury and risk management strategies enable it to assist Canadian exporters without relying on tax dollars. EDC raises funds by charging fees for its services and interest on its loans, as well as issuing debt in capital markets. Since 2002, EDC has paid $695 million in dividends to the Government of Canada.

http://www.edc.ca/english/corporate_mandate.htm

[capricorn]

Enough with the corporate welfare. Businesses should either sink or swim on their own money, not with the aid of our tax dollars.

Especially, foreign corporations.

Rick, see my above post. No tax dollars are being used to finance the loan to Vale.

[Evening Star]

Companies should only have their shareholder as an interest. They should also be allowed to buy and sell their assets without socialists interfering.

Does a loan from a Crown Corporation count as ('socialist'?) interference?

I don't know what I think of this particular loan but I'm curious about your statement.

[M.Dancer]

Does a loan from a Crown Corporation count as ('socialist'?) interference?

I don't know what I think of this particular loan but I'm curious about your statement.

No. It would if the loan had a rider that turned ownership over to the governemnt instead of lending at market rates.

I suspect the government did this because that size of loan in the public arena would put some serious pressue on the available capital pool, forcing rates up and limiting the ability for others to lend and borrow.

But seriously, aside from preventing monopolies, why should the government interfere when Canadian stockholders wish to sell?

[Rick]

Rick, see my above post. No tax dollars are being used to finance the loan to Vale.

Is EDC not a Crown corporation?

Who funds Crown Corporations such as EDC, CBC etc...

Taxpayers do. That's who.

[Pliny]

Is EDC not a Crown corporation?

Who funds Crown Corporations such as EDC, CBC etc...

Taxpayers do. That's who.

Reading comprehension is not one of your strong points.

EDC is financially self-sustaining. Since 2002, EDC has paid $695 million in dividends to the Government of Canada.