Gov't Funded Course in Sharia Law

[Shwa]

Hitler was no tactician, although he liked to think of himself as one. He didn't know how to control the army, and that is why they lost. He should have listened to his generals and let them do the planning; that's what they're there for! This argument was not about why they lost the war, or even the fact that they lost in the first place; it was about an "unorganized government", as you put it. Many users here, including myself, have already told you that they were an extremely organized government. Give it up, you lost.

So on the one hand, the Nazis lost the war because they were outnumbered, but on the other hand they lost the war because Hitler didn't know how to control the army. And you are saying the head of the government liked to think he was something he was not.

And you are arguing FOR an "extremely" organized government?

How was their "organization" in May, 1945?

[charter.rights]

Man oh man.

I am getting this image of a pecked over french fry being fought over by a bunch of seagulls in a McDonalds parking lot. Lictor is getting a licking.

[Bonam]

So on the one hand, the Nazis lost the war because they were outnumbered, but on the other hand they lost the war because Hitler didn't know how to control the army. And you are saying the head of the government liked to think he was something he was not.

Germany lost the war for several reasons. One of those was certainly the extent to which they were outnumbered. Another was the several major strategic blunders made by Hitler (such as deciding to invade the Soviet Union when he did). It is fearful to consider what might have happened had Hitler been a bit less of a megalomaniac and held off the invasion of the USSR until he had consolidated power in Europe and put its resources fully to military use: Germany may well have won WWII and we may well be living under a worldwide Reich. Actually there are many interesting "alternate history" novels written along such themes.

And you are arguing FOR an "extremely" organized government?

How was their "organization" in May, 1945?

I really hate to try to argue on the same side as this Nazi for any reason but seriously, any objective analysis shows that Nazi Germany really was "extremely" organized. Almost the entire productive capacity of the nation was very efficiently put to the purpose of producing war material. German military logistics and planning were top notch. Germany's technology and the development thereof outpaced all the allies until the very end of the war despite the allies vast economic advantage. Germany's government maintained control and order even as much of Germany was being bombed into ruin: something that cannot be said of the governments of many other nations that were similarly damaged during the war.

Also, the question of their organization in May, 1945, is irrelevant. Obviously a government that is in the very last throes of defeat is not going to be organized.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Bonam

[charter.rights]

Also, the question of their organization in May, 1945, is irrelevant. Obviously a government that is in the very last throes of defeat is not going to be organized.

Incorrect. Just before the US got their asses handed to them on the way out of Vietnam, they were still very highly organized. In fact that organization made for a very efficient and hasty retreat.

[Kanadischer]

Incorrect. Just before the US got their asses handed to them on the way out of Vietnam, they were still very highly organized. In fact that organization made for a very efficient and hasty retreat.

That is the stupidest fucking argument I've seen yet...Germany was being attacked on a home front for fucksakes...The German government would have never collapsed if they fought the entire war in Africa...

[charter.rights]

That is the stupidest fucking argument I've seen yet...Germany was being attacked on a home front for fucksakes...The German government would have never collapsed if they fought the entire war in Africa...

They fell apart... i.e. there were not "organized" at the end. In fact there were many "disorganized" assassination attempts within Hitlers own ranks. It the Nazis were as organized as you fantasize about, then there would have been no disagreement, or assassination attempts on Hitler.

Germany lost because their order (or lack of it) and their organization couldn't save them from the inevitable. They were poorly controlled, self-addicted racists that thought they could control the world. At the end of the day, the "multicultural" allied forces were MORE organized and MORE powerful than the last of the weenie Nazis...including Hitler himself.

[Kanadischer]

They fell apart... i.e. there were not "organized" at the end. In fact there were many "disorganized" assassination attempts within Hitlers own ranks. It the Nazis were as organized as you fantasize about, then there would have been no disagreement, or assassination attempts on Hitler.

Germany lost because their order (or lack of it) and their organization couldn't save them from the inevitable. They were poorly controlled, self-addicted racists that thought they could control the world. At the end of the day, the "multicultural" allied forces were MORE organized and MORE powerful than the last of the weenie Nazis...including Hitler himself.

Any country would fall apart if they lost the war; that's the whole point of war. I'm not the only one claiming the Germans were organized, many people on here have already stated numerous times that the Germans were extremely organized. You're fighting a battle which I have already won, so give it up. Disagreement has nothing to do with Organization. Contrary to what you stated, the fact that Hitler's men were able to stop the assassination attempts just FURTHER shows their organization and abilities to avoid assassination attempts within their own ranks.

Germany didn't lose because a lack of order...It lost because of numbers. The only reason Germany lost was because Hitler thought it would be a good idea to attack Russia, in the winter, and the fact that they were against the world obviously points to much higher numbers on the allies side.

You think the Germans were racist? That's funny. You mix the term Racialist with Racist. They were proud of themselves, their culture, their traditions and their heritage, and strived to perfect and preserve it. That's exactly what I am. They don't hate people of different religious and/or ethnic backgrounds, they simply don't believe they should be in Europa. The original plan was to send Jews to Madagascar and leave them there. Seems pretty humane to me; then France declared war and forced Germany to put them all into camps for the duration of the war. The Madagascar plan is recorded in the diary of Rudolf Hess, which I can provide a link to if you'd like.

Furthermore, Jesse Owens, an African-American track runner who raced in Berlin during the Olympics stated he was treated like family in Germany. He was allowed to sit at the front of the bus, socialize with Germans, and he was treated like everyone else. He was not even congratulated for his victory in Germany by the President upon his return home. This quote can be found online somewhere. If you're too lazy to do it, I can do it for you, just to prove my point So, you have the nerve to make a claim like "the Nazi's were racist" when you don't know the half of it. Hitler had Muslim allies, African allies, South American allies, and Asian allies. The only ally he didn't have was a Jew.

Chew on that for a bit. :angry:

[charter.rights]

Any country would fall apart if they lost the war; that's the whole point of war. I'm not the only one claiming the Germans were organized, many people on here have already stated numerous times that the Germans were extremely organized. You're fighting a battle which I have already won, so give it up. Disagreement has nothing to do with Organization. Contrary to what you stated, the fact that Hitler's men were able to stop the assassination attempts just FURTHER shows their organization and abilities to avoid assassination attempts within their own ranks.

Germany didn't lose because a lack of order...It lost because of numbers. The only reason Germany lost was because Hitler thought it would be a good idea to attack Russia, in the winter, and the fact that they were against the world obviously points to much higher numbers on the allies side.

You think the Germans were racist? That's funny. You mix the term Racialist with Racist. They were proud of themselves, their culture, their traditions and their heritage, and strived to perfect and preserve it. That's exactly what I am. They don't hate people of different religious and/or ethnic backgrounds, they simply don't believe they should be in Europa. The original plan was to send Jews to Madagascar and leave them there. Seems pretty humane to me; then France declared war and forced Germany to put them all into camps for the duration of the war. The Madagascar plan is recorded in the diary of Rudolf Hess, which I can provide a link to if you'd like.

Furthermore, Jesse Owens, an African-American track runner who raced in Berlin during the Olympics stated he was treated like family in Germany. He was allowed to sit at the front of the bus, socialize with Germans, and he was treated like everyone else. He was not even congratulated for his victory in Germany by the President upon his return home. This quote can be found online somewhere. If you're too lazy to do it, I can do it for you, just to prove my point So, you have the nerve to make a claim like "the Nazi's were racist" when you don't know the half of it. Hitler had Muslim allies, African allies, South American allies, and Asian allies. The only ally he didn't have was a Jew.

Chew on that for a bit. :angry:

There is nothing to chew about because your point of view is mush.

Part of being "organized" in any war is to ensure that you have sufficient manpower and equipment at the front of the battles. Only poorly disorganized armies send troops to the the front with insufficient manpower, food or equipment. Only disorganized armies attempt to take on as many fronts as the Nazis did, pushing into regions and countries without the ability to maintain the occupations.

Once the Nazis were pushed back they made disorganized retreats, eventually all the way back to Berlins, where they could not even hold the capital of Germany and the centre of their power.

Of course your ad misericordiam argument is just another useless fallacy. Just because one to two people here support part of what you say does not give you license to own their opinions. You lose.

The Nazis were disorganized and they were racists. 65 million Jews can no longer attest to it, but certainly we can on their behalf. Quit with your foolishness. You are on the wrong path.

[Kanadischer]

There is nothing to chew about because your point of view is mush.

Part of being "organized" in any war is to ensure that you have sufficient manpower and equipment at the front of the battles. Only poorly disorganized armies send troops to the the front with insufficient manpower, food or equipment. Only disorganized armies attempt to take on as many fronts as the Nazis did, pushing into regions and countries without the ability to maintain the occupations.

Once the Nazis were pushed back they made disorganized retreats, eventually all the way back to Berlins, where they could not even hold the capital of Germany and the centre of their power.

Of course your ad misericordiam argument is just another useless fallacy. Just because one to two people here support part of what you say does not give you license to own their opinions. You lose.

The Nazis were disorganized and they were racists. 65 million Jews can no longer attest to it, but certainly we can on their behalf. Quit with your foolishness. You are on the wrong path.

Hahahahahahaha, 65 MILLION!?!?! WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING!?!?!? :lol: Oh lord, that just made my day...I'm sure I'm not the only person here who is going to go ape shit on you for an HUGE error like that...

Who are you to say I'm on the wrong path? You've got a nice 1st class reserved seat on the bandwagon to hell my friend. You believe this world of corruption and cheating is the way it's meant to be. What a damn shame... Your name is "Charter Rights"; why don't you go read our charter of rights? You will see I have the right to follow these views, and you can't do anything about it

I will agree, that the military was not very organized towards the end of the war, however that is NOT what we're talking about. You're twisting the subject to fit your own pointless argument...We are talking about the government, not the military. Much of those "retreats" you talk about were Wehrmacht, not SS. Considering Germany had only a fraction of the men, machines, and equipment the Russians did while entering Berlin, it's not even fair to compare. The vast majority of the German soldiers were Hitlerjugend children and elderly Volkssturm men...

Before the war, and even in the opening years of the war, Germany was extremely organized, which is what we are talking about. You do realize National Socialism was in power for 5 years before any war started? During this period, Germany went from the poorest country in the world to the richest. An "unorganized government" could never accomplish this.

[charter.rights]

Who are you to say I'm on the wrong path? You've got a nice 1st class reserved seat on the bandwagon to hell my friend. You believe this world of corruption and cheating is the way it's meant to be. What a damn shame... Your name is "Charter Rights"; why don't you go read our charter of rights? You will see I have the right to follow these views, and you can't do anything about it

Let's just think a bit about your poor attempts of rebuttal. Not only do you imagine things I didn't say, but your replies are filled with fallacy arguments and very little else.

The Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not guarantee your freedom to say anything you want. That is "reasonably" limited in Canada by section 1.

"The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society."

Secondly, while section 2 grants you some freedom of expression, it also guarantees MY freedom to say that you are full of shit and woefully ignorant on this subject (the moderators may at times modify our free expression according the rules set up, which over-ride the Charter under section 1).

Lastly, you are trying to make a point that just cannot be made or defended. The Nazis ~might~ have been organized at one point (this is the full extent of your subjective case) but they were terribly unorganized near the end - that is a fact of history. You can't make your case.

And just so your red-herring doesn't go unnoticed, I study the Charter of Rights and Freedoms for breakfast and can dance like a whirling dervish around you IF you have the balls to get into it. However, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is irrelevent to this discussion and you popped it in because you can't make your case and by throwing in invectives and red-herrings you really are lost....a loser as much....in this debate.

So let's just restate the full conclusion of this discussion thusly:

The Nazis might have been organized at the beginning of the Second World War, but their terrible disorganization at the end cost them the entire war,and the near destruction of Germany. The Nazis were terrible planners and not capable of winning.

Edited August 28, 2010 by charter.rights

[Jefferson]

Muhammad was almost as bad as Harper. He wanted to control every aspect of society and was a complete dictator. I think Harper is in the wrong religion. Put a turban on him and he would fit right in with the other Imams.

[Kanadischer]

So let's just restate the full conclusion of this discussion thusly:

The Nazis might have been organized at the beginning of the Second World War, but their terrible disorganization at the end cost them the entire war,and the near destruction of Germany. The Nazis were terrible planners and not capable of winning.

At the beginning of this conversation, you made a bold statement along the lines of "the Nazi's were a n unorganized government" (paraphrasing here...). Now you are stating at one point they were organized but towards the end of the war they were not. Shocker; I could've told you that! No government will be organized towards the end of a war after hundreds of thousands are dead because of Soviet war criminals and millions of jobs are lost. You are the one who is feeble here. You are the one who has bent and eventually broke. You admitted Germany was organized, which is NOT what your argument was initially. To avoid making yourself look like a dumbass, I highly suggest stating what you think in the beginning of an argument rather than afterwards.

[charter.rights]

At the beginning of this conversation, you made a bold statement along the lines of "the Nazi's were a n unorganized government" (paraphrasing here...). Now you are stating at one point they were organized but towards the end of the war they were not. Shocker; I could've told you that! No government will be organized towards the end of a war after hundreds of thousands are dead because of Soviet war criminals and millions of jobs are lost. You are the one who is feeble here. You are the one who has bent and eventually broke. You admitted Germany was organized, which is NOT what your argument was initially. To avoid making yourself look like a dumbass, I highly suggest stating what you think in the beginning of an argument rather than afterwards.

You are still out of touch.

It is a fact that the Nazis were disorganized. However, it is only your subjective opinion that they were organized at some point, since the fact was they were disorganized enough to cause their collapse. It is like your being just a little insane. Either you are fully insane or you are not. The Nazis were disorganized and if they had been organized at ~some time~ then it really doesn't matter to this discussion.

You lose bucko. You aren't even close to the facts...and that is all that matters.

Edited August 28, 2010 by charter.rights

[Shwa]

Germany lost the war for several reasons ... Actually there are many interesting "alternate history" novels written along such themes.

Good gawd...

...something that cannot be said of the governments of many other nations that were similarly damaged during the war.

Except the vastly superior Brits, who were more organized and used that superior organization to help crush the Nazis, slice up the Fatherland and occupy a good portion of it and then help set up a better organized government in the form of the Federal Republic. Heck the Brits even taught them to play proper football.

Also, the question of their organization in May, 1945, is irrelevant. Obviously a government that is in the very last throes of defeat is not going to be organized.

That was my original counterpoint to our resident reichtard. Hard to stay "organized" when you are being annihilated eh? Annihilated again, I mean. No alternative endings required.

[charter.rights]

That was my original counterpoint to our resident reichtard. Hard to stay "organized" when you are being annihilated eh? Annihilated again, I mean. No alternative endings required.

You must forgive the little reichtard. His barney helmet came off while I was banging his head against the wall.

[Kanadischer]

You are still out of touch.

It is a fact that the Nazis were disorganized. However, it is only your subjective opinion that they were organized at some point, since the fact was they were disorganized enough to cause their collapse. It is like your being just a little insane. Either you are fully insane or you are not. The Nazis were disorganized and if they had been organized at ~some time~ then it really doesn't matter to this discussion.

You lose bucko. You aren't even close to the facts...and that is all that matters.

We've already discussed the reasons behind Germany's defeat, and it had nothing to do with organization. It seems to be you with the fallacious argument. You can't wrap your head around the fact that the Nazi's were organized and that it was overwhelming numbers and bad military tactics which led to their demise. It had absolutely nothing to do with the organization of the government itself. The government and military are two very different things. St. Lucia does not have an army, but they do have a government. Are they disorganized as well? Perhaps you just don't know the definition of "organization"? That would explain a lot...

[Kanadischer]

Except the vastly superior Brits, who were more organized and used that superior organization to help crush the Nazis, slice up the Fatherland and occupy a good portion of it and then help set up a better organized government in the form of the Federal Republic. Heck the Brits even taught them to play proper football.

The Brits were able to keep their cool because they were receiving financial aid from Canada, along with US, which we all know is the only reason the US truly joined the war, to hopefully regain some of their money.

I remember seeing on the discovery channel a few years ago a documentation about the Battle of Britain and how a British general said they would have surrendered if the Germans continued to bomb for another 6 months, however I don't recall the name of the show, so it's really irrelevant.

Furthermore, the Americans knew about Pearl Harbour before it occured. This is a well-known fact and I'm sure you can google it and come up with some queries. The US joined because they knew that Britain would have gotten destroyed and the Jewish bankers of the JewSA would never see a penny of their money. That's the true reason for joining the war. Look it up yourself

[Shwa]

The Brits were able to keep their cool because they were receiving financial aid from Canada, along with US, which we all know is the only reason the US truly joined the war, to hopefully regain some of their money. a penny of their money. That's the true reason for joining the war. Look it up yourself

The Brits were able to "keep their cool" because of superior organization, including beneficial relationships with other nations, to form a multi-cultural allied force that overran the Germans, carved up the country and annihilating the Nazis; and then reconciling the German people to the British superiority of organization to make them what they are today.

Who cares what the US was in for, they were obviously organized enough to achieve their objectives and the same claim cannot be said for the Nazis.

[Kanadischer]

The Brits were able to "keep their cool" because of superior organization, including beneficial relationships with other nations, to form a multi-cultural allied force that overran the Germans, carved up the country and annihilating the Nazis; and then reconciling the German people to the British superiority of organization to make them what they are today.

Who cares what the US was in for, they were obviously organized enough to achieve their objectives and the same claim cannot be said for the Nazis.

It's quite comical to watch you call the allied forces "multicultural" when the only foreign culture present were a few thousands blacks. That's nothing compared to the multicultural SS! We had Muslims, Africans, and Europeans in the SS!! What are you talking about "multicultural allied forces" - Hahaha ,what a fucking joke you are.

Keep trying

Edit:

Furthermore, learn how to properly quote someone. Deleting parts and putting them elsewhere just makes you look retarded. Please refer to the following link: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/quoting-correctly.html

Edited August 29, 2010 by Kanadischer

[Guest TrueMetis]

It's quite comical to watch you call the allied forces "multicultural" when the only foreign culture present were a few thousands blacks. That's nothing compared to the multicultural SS! We had Muslims, Africans, and Europeans in the SS!! What are you talking about "multicultural allied forces" - Hahaha ,what a fucking joke you are.

Keep trying

Canadians, Americans, Chinese, Australians, New Zealanders, British, French, Polish, Russian, First Nations, South African's, Yugoslavs, (don't know if that is right?) Dutch, etc. Unless you consider all Europeans one culture.

And I notice you said "we had" Are you talking as a German or as a Nazi?

[Kanadischer]

Canadians, Americans, Chinese, Australians, New Zealanders, British, French, Polish, Russian, First Nations, South African's, Yugoslavs, (don't know if that is right?) Dutch, etc. Unless you consider all Europeans one culture.

I said foreign culture, and German culture is not so foreign to Dutch culture; while they have their differences, their overall lifestyles are very similar.

And I notice you said "we had" Are you talking as a German or as a Nazi?

I said foreign culture, and German culture is not so foreign to Dutch culture; while they have their differences, their overall lifestyles are very similar.

I knew someone would pick up on the "we". My family was in Germany during the war. Well, half of it. The other half was here in 1780, but one half came after the war. I had family in the SS, therefore I was speaking as a National Socialist and on behalf of my German family.

[Guest TrueMetis]

I said foreign culture, and German culture is not so foreign to Dutch culture; while they have their differences, their overall lifestyles are very similar.

You know shite all about cultures apparently.

I knew someone would pick up on the "we". My family was in Germany during the war. Well, half of it. The other half was here in 1780, but one half came after the war. I had family in the SS, therefore I was speaking as a National Socialist and on behalf of my German family.

Holy crap he admits to being a Nazi.

[charter.rights]

I said foreign culture, and German culture is not so foreign to Dutch culture; while they have their differences, their overall lifestyles are very similar.

I knew someone would pick up on the "we". My family was in Germany during the war. Well, half of it. The other half was here in 1780, but one half came after the war. I had family in the SS, therefore I was speaking as a National Socialist and on behalf of my German family.

You belong to inferior intellect, I see. Nazis - disorganized losers. Hey you have something in common....

Daddy get out of prison yet?

[Shwa]

It's quite comical to watch you call the allied forces "multicultural" when the only foreign culture present were a few thousands blacks. That's nothing compared to the multicultural SS! We had Muslims, Africans, and Europeans in the SS!! What are you talking about "multicultural allied forces" - hahaha ,what a fucking joke you are.

You know perfectly well what I mean by multi-cultural allies, those folks of many languages and cultures that crushed the Nazis. Since are the one claiming that multi-cultural is bad, you look like a reichtard by invoking the concept to talk about your beloved loser Nazis.

Edit:

Furthermore, learn how to properly quote someone. Deleting parts and putting them elsewhere just makes you look retarded. Please refer to the following link: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/quoting-correctly.html

Ooooo, now you are a forum etiquette Nazi too! LOFL!

[Jack Weber]

Canadians, Americans, Chinese, Australians, New Zealanders, British, French, Polish, Russian, First Nations, South African's, Yugoslavs, (don't know if that is right?) Dutch, etc. Unless you consider all Europeans one culture.

And I notice you said "we had" Are you talking as a German or as a Nazi?

I'm of German lineage..

And fools like this are an embarassment and brought(and continue to bring) eternal shame to all Germans...

I also would like to think that most Germans are'nt so far gone as to be avid Nazi's...

From the company I keep,I know I'm not...

Edited August 29, 2010 by Jack Weber