Artificial Life created

[Pliny]

Is what I've said too simple or too complicated?

[Pliny]

I;m disappointed in you, Bonam. Does the Buddhist thought of there being only "now" frighten you?

It certainly throws a wrench in the theory of relativity and Hawkings meanderings about time.

If you want to take a piece of paper and put it in a basket you certainly don't have any choice about putting it in a basket if the material universe is already extant in the future. It simply must be created as time progresses. The piece of paper cannot already exist in the basket in the future - for what if you changed your mind about putting it in the basket? If it were true that all was a predetermined and already existent future then you are stuck without any individual volition.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Pliny

[Bonam]

I;m disappointed in you, Bonam. Does the Buddhist thought of there being only "now" frighten you?

It certainly throws a wrench in the theory of relativity and Hawkings meanderings about time.

If you want to take a piece of paper and put it in a basket you certainly don't have any choice about putting it in a basket if the material universe is already extant in the future. It simply must be created as time progresses. The piece of paper cannot already exist in the basket in the future - for what if you changed your mind about putting it in the basket? If it were true that all was a predetermined and already existent future then you are stuck without any individual volition.

Sorry I somehow missed your last few posts in this thread.

The future is not predetermined. It is impossible (fundamentally on a quantum level) to simultaneously know the exact position and velocity of every particle in the universe, so one cannot determine the state of the universe in some arbitrary future time. What exists is the present moment, but it does not mean that the past is constantly being "destroyed", rather it is simply a process of smooth movement along a temporal dimension.

Let me try another analogy. You are driving your car along a highway. At one moment, your car exists at a certain position. At another moment, your car exists a few meters further along the road. What happened in between? Was your car "destroyed" at the previous position and "created" at the new position? No, it smoothly and continuously moved from its previous position to its current position... moving through space. We move through time in exactly this way, no creation or destruction involved. The only difference is that while you can control the movement of your car, you cannot control your movement through time.

Individual volition is a more complicated and interesting topic, which is hard to debate in terms of pure fundamental physics. I don't have a lot of time now but we can certainly discuss it in the future if you are interested... For now, let me just say that I do believe that individuals have free will, given any definition of free will that is relevant in terms of social or philosophical debates.

[Pliny]

Sorry I somehow missed your last few posts in this thread.

Ok. I have done that myself, lost or forgotten a thread and then stumbled upon it again.

The future is not predetermined. It is impossible (fundamentally on a quantum level) to simultaneously know the exact position and velocity of every particle in the universe, so one cannot determine the state of the universe in some arbitrary future time.

What exists is the present moment, but it does not mean that the past is constantly being "destroyed", rather it is simply a process of smooth movement along a temporal dimension.

Let me try another analogy. You are driving your car along a highway. At one moment, your car exists at a certain position. At another moment, your car exists a few meters further along the road. What happened in between? Was your car "destroyed" at the previous position and "created" at the new position? No, it smoothly and continuously moved from its previous position to its current position... moving through space. We move through time in exactly this way, no creation or destruction involved. The only difference is that while you can control the movement of your car, you cannot control your movement through time.

So you are basically saying that space, matter and energy exist in a temporal dimension and are moving through it.

If time exists as a temporal dimension and matter, energy and space are moving through it then they are entirely predictable as to position. Take any instant along the temporal dimension, as you describe it, and the space particles and energy must be in a certain configuration. The automobile must be in a certain place at any particular time. Time, or the temporal dimension, cannot exist in the future any more than matter or space. It too must be created newly. If that were not so we could take any instant in the already existing temporal dimension and look at where matter is located in space. The fact is we can predict based only on current calculations where any matter may be in the future. but something could happen to prove our prediction wrong.

I could take your analogy of the car and say that the car is moving through space the car is not destroyed and created it moves smoothly through space. I am forgetting that space too is an element of the physical universe. Essentially, I am just saying space is not part of the physical universe, you are saying time is not a part of the physical universe.

Individual volition is a more complicated and interesting topic, which is hard to debate in terms of pure fundamental physics. I don't have a lot of time now but we can certainly discuss it in the future if you are interested... For now, let me just say that I do believe that individuals have free will, given any definition of free will that is relevant in terms of social or philosophical debates.

Of course, I agree, which makes an existing "temporal dimension" impossible. If the car in your analgoy hit a rock that would have to exist in that instant in the temporal dimension we are going through and would not be changeable. If you swerved and missed the rock that would be what is contained in that instant. Individual volition would not be able to exist. Time too must be considered as newly created if we can be considered to control a vehicle.

[Pliny]

Hey this thread looks pretty interesting. Looks like it got lost in time.