Brown calls woman a bigot...

[M.Dancer]

Just like in Canada, whether you are or aren't, whether your concerns are rational or irrational, raising questions about immigration can get you labelled as a bigot.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid69900095001?bctid=81638303001

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid69900095001?bctid=81638303001

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/801528--microphone-catches-british-pm-criticizing-bigoted-woman?bn=1

What is apparent is the leader of the party of the working class has great disdain for the real working class...

[Argus]

Just like in Canada, whether you are or aren't, whether your concerns are rational or irrational, raising questions about immigration can get you labelled as a bigot.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid69900095001?bctid=81638303001

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid69900095001?bctid=81638303001

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/801528--microphone-catches-british-pm-criticizing-bigoted-woman?bn=1

What is apparent is the leader of the party of the working class has great disdain for the real working class...

How does a party like the BNP gain success? Simple. When mainstream parties treat the voters' concerns on immigration as not only unimportant, but illegitimate, then voters will look for someone who will take them seriously. As many as 20% of British voters are so disenchanted with the mainstream parties for ignoring them they're considering voting for what is basically a racist, nazi party. The BNP is the creation of men like Brown.

[M.Dancer]

As many as 20% of British voters are so disenchanted with the mainstream parties for ignoring them they're considering voting for what is basically a racist, nazi party. The BNP is the creation of men like Brown.

The BNP has never topped 1% in a general election...I don't think they will this one either...they are an extreme fringe that represents soccer hooligans and lager louts....and even then they have a hard time penetrating that desirous demographic.

[Smallc]

We all make comments in private that shouldn't be public. His biggest failure was accidentally allowing them to become public.

[Handsome Rob]

The BNP has never topped 1% in a general election...I don't think they will this one either...they are an extreme fringe that represents soccer hooligans and lager louts....and even then they have a hard time penetrating that desirous demographic.

They went from 47,000 general election votes to 192,746 in the span of 4 years, with two seats at the European parliament of all places to boot. Quite an achievement for them.

I wouldn't rule them out either. There very existence is evidence of a problem.

[Sir Bandelot]

As many as 20% of British voters are so disenchanted with the mainstream parties for ignoring them they're considering voting for what is basically a racist, nazi party. The BNP is the creation of men like Brown.

Interesting. The rise of extremism could be the result of a backlash against the neo-political dilemma we are in.

[Bonam]

Interesting. The rise of extremism could be the result of a backlash against the neo-political dilemma we are in.

Indeed. I'd say that extremism (in civilized societies) usually arises as a response to conditions or circumstances that are perceived as intolerable. People feel that their leaders are failing them in some fundamental way. That's when otherwise peaceful, civilized, people begin to accept extreme measures and extreme ideologies.

I don't know if the immigration issue is there yet in Europe, but from my point of view it is certainly headed in that direction. If Europe's mainstream parties don't start to address the problems, things could certainly get ugly. Thankfully, some countries, here and there, are beginning to realize what is going on.

[M.Dancer]

I wouldn't rule them out either. There very existence is evidence of a problem.

If a clown like Galloway can get elected, anyone can. That being said, they will have as much impact as a fart in a storm. This election will be decided by the LDP

[Argus]

The BNP has never topped 1% in a general election...I don't think they will this one either...they are an extreme fringe that represents soccer hooligans and lager louts....and even then they have a hard time penetrating that desirous demographic.

If 20% said they could see themselves voting for them - despite the grave doubts most no doubt had - that indicates a serious concern over immigration.

So if the BNP switches leaders to someone who takes a more moderate and conciliatory tone, boots out the more obvious racists, turns its back on the more obviously silly platform items like shipping non-whites out of the country, what will happen to its support then? Especially if the new leader is charismatic?

[M.Dancer]

If 20% said they could see themselves voting for them -

But they don't. BNP isn't polling any where near that.

Conservatives-34%

Labour-29%

LDP-28%

Various wing nut parties including the BNP-----9%

[Argus]

But they don't. BNP isn't polling any where near that.

Conservatives-34%

Labour-29%

LDP-28%

Various wing nut parties including the BNP-----9%

The survey I saw didn't claim 20% support them or intended to vote for them. I believe the question asked was whether they could see themselves possibly supporting them. I'll try to find the survey. But in briefly looking I came across something perhaps even more interesting. A poll taken of people showed up to 59% actually supported BNP policies - until they found out they were BNP policies.

More than a third of people, 37 per cent, said they would seriously consider voting for the BNP's policies in an election. But identifying the BNP with the policies caused support to fall by 17 per cent.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-384167/Most-Britons-actually-support-BNP-policies.html#ixzz0mdC2jU3W

I don't know about you, but that says to me that rebranding themselves could get them into power.

Edited April 30, 2010 by Argus

[Bob]

Greetings fellow Canadians,

I'm surprised it hasn't been asked yet in this thread, but my initial response to this story was, "...perhaps this Gillian Duffy IS a bigot and Gordon Brown's candid comments about her to his aide(s) were justified?"

So here's a video of the actual exchange between Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy, after which the PM described the lady as "bigoted".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14f3aOC929w

It's a brief clip, but the only thing that this lady says that's somewhat questionable is her apparent questioning of the wisdom of the influx of Eastern Europeans into the UK. Now I agree that's getting close to painting an entire people with a broad brush... what brush she is using, however, isn't quite clear. She seems to be suggesting that the UK is absorbing more immigrants from Eastern Europe than it can handle, or that the immigrants coming in aren't valuable to the UK. Perhaps she has a point? I don't know the statistics, so I can't comment. If the UK is absorbing many immigrants that cannot successfully integrate economically and/or socially into its fabric, then this lady definitely has a point. Although he comment borders on becoming too big a negative generalization, she never out-and-out says anything denigrating about immigrants and doesn't come across as xenophobic or "bigoted".

The PM's description of the lady as bigoted confirms her very own statement in the clip - "...you can't say about the immigrants, because you're saying..." (at 2:36 in the video), which suggests that she feels an overly-sensitive political discourse which intimidates UKers from voice opinions critical of immigration/immigrants. In other words, she feels the political discourse is far too politically correct - an opinion that seems to be confirmed by Brown's later description of this lady as "bigoted". Argus and Bonam both mentioned this same theme in their posts.

Most obviously, and I'm sure we'll all agree on this, is the PM's blatant phoniness. Even if we didn't hear of his comments about the lady being "bigoted" (assuming he had disconnected his mic), he still feels really fake when schmoozing with this lady. Considering that we all now DO know about his disparaging comments about the lady after leaving this brief little "meet the people" event, his fakeness is just all that more pathetic. Although I'm not British, I'd have a lot of difficulty voting for this man after just learning about this story.

Somewhat off-topic, I find Gordon Brown to be lacking in the charisma department. Also, I remember him being voted one of the (if not topping the list) worst-dressed men by some UK or European magazine.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Bob

[Rue]

Greetings fellow Canadians,

I'm surprised it hasn't been asked yet in this thread, but my initial response to this story was, "...perhaps this Gillian Duffy IS a bigot and Gordon Brown's candid comments about her to his aide(s) were justified?"

So here's a video of the actual exchange between Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy, after which the PM described the lady as "bigoted".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14f3aOC929w

It's a brief clip, but the only thing that this lady says that's somewhat questionable is her apparent questioning of the wisdom of the influx of Eastern Europeans into the UK. Now I agree that's getting close to painting an entire people with a broad brush... what brush she is using, however, isn't quite clear. She seems to be suggesting that the UK is absorbing more immigrants from Eastern Europe than it can handle, or that the immigrants coming in aren't valuable to the UK. Perhaps she has a point? I don't know the statistics, so I can't comment. If the UK is absorbing many immigrants that cannot successfully integrate economically and/or socially into its fabric, then this lady definitely has a point. Although he comment borders on becoming too big a negative generalization, she never out-and-out says anything denigrating about immigrants and doesn't come across as xenophobic or "bigoted".

The PM's description of the lady as bigoted confirms her very own statement in the clip - "...you can't say about the immigrants, because you're saying..." (at 2:36 in the video), which suggests that she feels an overly-sensitive political discourse which intimidates UKers from voice opinions critical of immigration/immigrants. In other words, she feels the political discourse is far too politically correct - an opinion that seems to be confirmed by Brown's later description of this lady as "bigoted". Argus and Bonam both mentioned this same theme in their posts.

Most obviously, and I'm sure we'll all agree on this, is the PM's blatant phoniness. Even if we didn't hear of his comments about the lady being "bigoted" (assuming he had disconnected his mic), he still feels really fake when schmoozing with this lady. Considering that we all now DO know about his disparaging comments about the lady after leaving this brief little "meet the people" event, his fakeness is just all that more pathetic. Although I'm not British, I'd have a lot of difficulty voting for this man after just learning about this story.

Somewhat off-topic, I find Gordon Brown to be lacking in the charisma department. Also, I remember him being voted one of the (if not topping the list) worst-dressed men by some UK or European magazine.

I sort of have your take to. When I head the question the questioner made no derogatory comments about Easterners so Brown should have been smart enough not to call her a bigot even if he thought that was her agenda. He's a politician. He's supposed to avoid taking the bait.

He could have easily acknowledged the remarks with -"yes its a difficult issue-we want to be fair to people who want to come to this country and contribute positively to its success but we also have to be aware of issues some prospective immigrants might face with assimilating to our society such as language."

Or simply, " yes I acknowledge your concerns that immigration policy must take into consideration assimilation issues when determining eligibility requirements".

Politics is about stating the obvious.

Brown took the bait and showed himself to have thin skin. Then again he is human. he may have been tired and worn out. This is where his handlers come in.

He certainly is not a charismatic man and that will hurt him in this day and age where image and communication style are what gets someone elected not the substance of their messages.

After years of a politician who spoke very eloquently, switching to the boring Brown was like reverting back to John Major. Boring politicians don't make it in Britain. You need to be able to speak brilliantly to make a lasting impression.

Blair's eloquence is a hard act to follow but both the Liberal and Conservative leaders are up to the task. Mr. Brown unfortunately sounds and looks like a wet blanket.

[Argus]

Brown took the bait and showed himself to have thin skin. Then again he is human. he may have been tired and worn out. This is where his handlers come in.

You are being far too kind to him. He brushed aside her question on immigration, then, later, in private, called her a bigot for daring to ask them. That is the perfect illustration of the arrogance which immigration supporters greet any questioning of their wisdom. They ignore it, in a knee-jerk fashion, and then call you names for daring to doubt. And in their arrogance, ignoring doubts, problems and questions about their policies, the system runs off the rails and serves no one well.

This is why the BNP exists. This is why so many UK people (and Canadians) are building up a very anti-immigration opinion whereby they want all immigration stopped.