Can't compete with immigrants.

[mikedavid00]

To go further with Maple Leaf, they are now part of a program called the provincial nominee program.

http://www2.immigratemanitoba.com/browse/howtoimmigrate/pnp/

Here's more information on that program. It's a very good idea. It's filling the positions in Manitoba that need to be filled.

I guess Manitoba must have a lot of jobs! Things must be great down there for them to actively be seeking immigrants. My God the pay must be great seeing as supply and demand are in practice.

I'm sure if I researched, I wouldn't find that Manitoba has a large portion of it's population collecting EI because they cannot work... riiiiiiight?

[mikedavid00]

actually lets make this clear, every western industrialized country is doing exactly what Canada is, Germany, France, Japan, Netherlands, Sweden every country is relying on immigration to offset low birth rates...

That is false.

These countries have huge refugee and family sponsorship problems. They do NOT actively seek out people the way we do.

A friend of mine is in India doing a family visit and there is a BIG POSTER to 'Come study at University Of Toronto'. She took a pic of it and put it on Facebook. They have ads in their trains and buses to 'Immigrate to Canada!'.

We actively seek them out. The other countries do NOT.

We have this crazy, insane 'points' system. We are the ONLY country that has a 'points system'.

Stop spreading miss-information. I *ASSURE* you that I am more well versed on world immigration policies than you are.

Trust me when I say that Canada is the 'sucker country' of the world.

[Machjo]

I still cannot find work.

Sorry to hear that.

I will say that I simply cannot compete with immigrants. I've lost countless jobs to them and the market place is *FLOODED* with them. My resume gets burried in hundreds.

Why compete? If I want to open up a business, and the town I live in is flooded with fast food restaurants but has a shortage of cinemas, do I open a restaurant in the hopes of competing with the others, or do I open a cinema next to one of the restaurants so that we can in fact benefit each other? Perhaps it's a matter of rethinking your strategy? No one want to hire someone who'll compete against him. they want to hire someone who has something to offer.

There is only so many jobs to go around - the don't come out of thin air. If we are seing a decline in jobs, why are we letting so many people in to Canada?

You're wrong in your suggestion that the number of jobs in the economy is fixed. It fluctuates at all times according to circumstances. Immigrants take jobs, but also created jobs through their spending and purchases. If we simply cut immigration, on the one hand we'd have fewer immigrants taking our jobs, but on the other we'd also have fewer immigrants creating jobs. In the end, you'd still find yourself in the same boat but within a smaller economy? How do you think Japan has been so successful in spite of its population?

(I know the real answer to this as I've researched this enough I can write a book, but I occasionally like to come on to get a laugh out of the sheep that are going to regurgitate the standard phrases the media and politicians want them to say.. oh yeah guys.. don't forget about the "Dr's diving taxi's".. the media made shure you learned that one real well).

May you write your book.

Now if you really want help getting a job, closing our doors to immigration, tourism, international students, etc, all of which create jobs, why not ask for education instead? If you don't have the money to go to school, the government should send you to school to ensure you have the skills to offer to a potential employer. Again, no one will hire you because of how you can compete against them, but rather because of what you can offer them.

[whowhere]

The British and French weren't immigrants ? There weren't migrants moving from province to province ?

British and French were as much immigrants as someone moving From British Columbia to Nova Scotia. In anycase Canada's population in 1980 was roughly 20 million. Through Immigration mostly, the population has been ramped to 34 million. Spin or your history rivisionism all you want. As spock, would say, it's most illogical.

[wyly]

That is false. These countries have huge refugee and family sponsorship problems. They do NOT actively seek out people the way we do.

Germany-The political background to the introduction of the new immigration law being, that Germany for the first time ever acknowledged to be an "immigration country". Although the practical changes to the immigration procedures were relatively minor, new immigration categories like the ones for highly skilled professionals and scientist have been introduced to attract valuable professionals for the German labour market.

France-There has however been a streamlining of procedures for entry of professionals and group-level transfers to France. France has recently opened its borders to foreign (non EU) workers via a

number of recent reforms.

I could go on but it's obvious your wrong again(and these are the two countries you claimed to have visited and know so much about...every country wants professionals and skilled workers, what the EU needs less of than it did in the past is unskilled workers, with expansion of the EU they have more then enough eastern europeans to now fill those positions...

A friend of mine is in India doing a family visit and there is a BIG POSTER to 'Come study at University Of Toronto'. She took a pic of it and put it on Facebook. They have ads in their trains and buses to 'Immigrate to Canada!'.

every country wants India's science grads, highly trained and it doesn't cost the host country a cent...

We actively seek them out. The other countries do NOT.

one poster in India that's real convincing evidence you've supplied....

We have this crazy, insane 'points' system. We are the ONLY country that has a 'points system'.

hoe countries determine qualification is irrelevant and once again you're wrong, a simple web search shows the UK has a points system as well...

Stop spreading miss-information. I *ASSURE* you that I am more well versed on world immigration policies than you are.

as I've demonstrated only when you make things up which it seems is often...you know bugger all about immigration..

Trust me when I say that Canada is the 'sucker country' of the world.

you've been wrong on every point why trust you?...I think not...

[daniel]

I live in a 'Liberal-Created Immigrant Riding Stronghold'. There is NO POINT to me voting when I know who is going to win.

There's a million excuses for people to whine but refuse to enact their right. I'm sure there were a lot of people from other countries who had endured more than rain who actually voted.

I also don't preach doing more with less. That is the far left who preaches that.

Actually it was during the Mike Harris era that this line of thinking was preached unto the rest of us. Harris - hardly a lefty.

But relax, I'm sure your ancestors did the same and that's how you got where you are. And in a few generations, all these immigrants you whine about won't be anymore as their descendants contribute to this society.

But we all understand your sentiment. It's been repeated the world-over throughout history. Whenever there's some economic instability, immigrants were always to blame.

Edited March 13, 2010 by daniel

[Guest TrueMetis]

And you think it's illegitimate for him to question why his government is bringing in immigrants from foreign countries to displace him?

NO I was calling him out on his hyprocritical statement that the immigrants should have to move again when David is the one who can't find work. David apparently gets a free pass.

[bloodyminded]

NO I was calling him out on his hyprocritical statement that the immigrants should have to move again when David is the one who can't find work. David apparently gets a free pass.

Yep.

Perhaps we're to think it should all be based on the length of lineage. A fifth-generation Canadain is somehow "more Canadian" than a second-generation Canadian, and so on.

In which case, of course, Native people should get first pick.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Yep.

Perhaps we're to think it should all be based on the length of lineage. A fifth-generation Canadain is somehow "more Canadian" than a second-generation Canadian, and so on.

In which case, of course, Native people should get first pick.

Works for me.

[whowhere]

Germany-The political background to the introduction of the new immigration law being, that Germany for the first time ever acknowledged to be an "immigration country". Although the practical changes to the immigration procedures were relatively minor, new immigration categories like the ones for highly skilled professionals and scientist have been introduced to attract valuable professionals for the German labour market.

France-There has however been a streamlining of procedures for entry of professionals and group-level transfers to France. France has recently opened its borders to foreign (non EU) workers via a

number of recent reforms.

I could go on but it's obvious your wrong again(and these are the two countries you claimed to have visited and know so much about...every country wants professionals and skilled workers, what the EU needs less of than it did in the past is unskilled workers, with expansion of the EU they have more then enough eastern europeans to now fill those positions...

every country wants India's science grads, highly trained and it doesn't cost the host country a cent...

one poster in India that's real convincing evidence you've supplied....

hoe countries determine qualification is irrelevant and once again you're wrong, a simple web search shows the UK has a points system as well...

as I've demonstrated only when you make things up which it seems is often...you know bugger all about immigration..

you've been wrong on every point why trust you?...I think not...

You realize there is a difference to a work permit and citizenship right? As soon as someone gets off the "boat" they are created as equal Canadians. No country does this. In other countries it takes years to earn that status.

http://www.workpermit.com/

[whowhere]

NO I was calling him out on his hyprocritical statement that the immigrants should have to move again when David is the one who can't find work. David apparently gets a free pass.

Calling me out?? I have to call you out on your treasonous unpatriotic attitude and your grudge towards your Canadian brothers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqIFxArPdFY&feature=related

What kind of person puts the world before their own countrymen. Yes, as I said, the followers of Evil.

[whowhere]

Yep.

Perhaps we're to think it should all be based on the length of lineage. A fifth-generation Canadain is somehow "more Canadian" than a second-generation Canadian, and so on.

In which case, of course, Native people should get first pick.

I doubt we are talking of any generation of Canadians. We are talking about the ones who couldn't cut the mustard in the country they were kicked out of and have set up shop in Canada in the last fifteen years.

[bloodyminded]

I doubt we are talking of any generation of Canadians. We are talking about the ones who couldn't cut the mustard in the country they were kicked out of and have set up shop in Canada in the last fifteen years.

Is fifteen years considred a rational parameter?

As for "cutting the mustard in the country they were kicked out of"...well, this is a rare moment where I'm at a bit of a loss for words.

Astonishing.

[whowhere]

Is fifteen years considred a rational parameter?

As for "cutting the mustard in the country they were kicked out of"...well, this is a rare moment where I'm at a bit of a loss for words.

Astonishing.

Astonished you are picking on David to sell everything and move. Why should he stop there, he should relocate to another Country according to you and your brother in arms, falsemetis. Winners and those who are the success and cream of any society don't uproot and move to another country. Only the social outcasts, rejects, losers, the cowards run to another country. They couldn't cut the mustard where they left, so now Canadians are so lucky to have these rejects trying to make Canada in their loser image.

Fifteens years is the span of Canada's journey into this multicultural crap society. Quite rational.

[bloodyminded]

Winners and those who are the success and cream of any society don't uproot and move to another country. Only the social outcasts, rejects, losers, the cowards run to another country. They couldn't cut the mustard where they left, so now Canadians are so lucky to have these rejects trying to make Canada in their loser image.

You either lack any knowledge on this subject, or you're just trying to be provocative. Those are the two choices.

[whowhere]

You either lack any knowledge on this subject, or you're just trying to be provocative. Those are the two choices.

No, it's my opinion of them. Welcome to Forum land. We can't all be born winners bloodyminded, sorry the country you came from didn't want you.

[bloodyminded]

No, it's my opinion of them. Welcome to Forum land. We can't all be born winners bloodyminded, sorry the country you came from didn't want you.

Canada didn't want me? So I left?

I was unaware of either of these interesting facts.

As for "born winners"--the majority of people think that anti-immigration whiners are losers, not winners.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Calling me out?? I have to call you out on your treasonous unpatriotic attitude and your grudge towards your Canadian brothers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqIFxArPdFY&feature=related

What kind of person puts the world before their own countrymen. Yes, as I said, the followers of Evil.

Pot meet kettle.

[Bonam]

Well, the federal government thinks otherwise. The University of Ottawa offers intensive 3 week French classes at $1400 each, so I don't think they're any cheaper. Anglophones (is English your first language?) have a lot of trouble picking up French, especially if they're older. By contrast, English is considerably easier for Francophones to pick up.

I agree that it would be difficult to pick up French in a complete vacuum. But remember, if you are living in an area where everyone speaks French, you can learn the language much more quickly. Have you ever learned a second language? If you have, I'm sure you know that simply living in an environment where that language is used continuously, watching TV in that language, etc, is far more valuable than just taking courses. Hence why, living in Quebec, 6 hours of courses per week was sufficient.

Additionally, while the French education that most Canadians get in elementary and high school is woefully inadequate to use or understand French on any level, it does give a certain passing familiarity. So if a typical Anglophone Canadian whose had years of French in school wants to actually learn French, they will have at least some familiarity with it, and it should not be quite as difficult to learn as a language that they have never before encountered at all.

As for your question, I would consider myself an Anglophone, yes. However, I know a total of 4 languages, my French being the least fluent of the 4.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Bonam

[Argus]

As for your question, I would consider myself an Anglophone, yes. However, I know a total of 4 languages, my French being the least fluent of the 4.

Congratulations. I know that some languages are related, which is why I asked. If you know Spanish, for example, it's far easier to pick up French. In any event, yes, I've made considerable efforts at picking up French. I did have the actual written version down fairly well, along with grammar and verb usage, but I just don't have the ear for it, it seems. Mind you, it doesn't help that the French taught officially has little relation to the coloquial-filled franglais used in much of the Ottawa valley.

Still, for most English, learning French sufficiently to actually be hired for a bilingual job is basially a year-long project which costs thousands of dollars for full-time tuition and requires a means of support and bill paying aside from that. It really isn't something you can recommend to someone on the edge of losing their pogey to help them find a job.

[Jack Weber]

Astonished you are picking on David to sell everything and move. Why should he stop there, he should relocate to another Country according to you and your brother in arms, falsemetis. Winners and those who are the success and cream of any society don't uproot and move to another country. Only the social outcasts, rejects, losers, the cowards run to another country. They couldn't cut the mustard where they left, so now Canadians are so lucky to have these rejects trying to make Canada in their loser image.

Fifteens years is the span of Canada's journey into this multicultural crap society. Quite rational.

Myron??...Is that you??

Still wearin' the 10 gallon???

[Machjo]

Calling me out?? I have to call you out on your treasonous unpatriotic attitude and your grudge towards your Canadian brothers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqIFxArPdFY&feature=related

What kind of person puts the world before their own countrymen. Yes, as I said, the followers of Evil.

You insist that they're mutually exclusive when in fact they can go hand in hand. Immigrants take jobs, but they also create them. And more importantly, they pay taxes, thus increasing the government's revenue which it can then use to provide job training to the unemployed, which increases their chances of finding a job. To simply halt immigration will certainly take immigrants out of the job market, but it will take jobs out of the market too, so you'd still have no guarantee of finding a job, plus government revenue would be smaller thus increasing the likelihood that the government would not have the funds necessary to educate you so that you could get a good job.

So don't bite the hand that feeds you, which is the workers, native and immigrant equally.

Your machinations seem to be an illogical and veiled attempt to find any excuse to legitimize anti-immigrant sentiment, when in fact well over 90% of Canadians can trace their roots to outside North America within the last 400 years.

[Bonam]

Congratulations. I know that some languages are related, which is why I asked. If you know Spanish, for example, it's far easier to pick up French. In any event, yes, I've made considerable efforts at picking up French. I did have the actual written version down fairly well, along with grammar and verb usage, but I just don't have the ear for it, it seems. Mind you, it doesn't help that the French taught officially has little relation to the coloquial-filled franglais used in much of the Ottawa valley.

Still, for most English, learning French sufficiently to actually be hired for a bilingual job is basially a year-long project which costs thousands of dollars for full-time tuition and requires a means of support and bill paying aside from that. It really isn't something you can recommend to someone on the edge of losing their pogey to help them find a job.

You keep ignoring the fact that the best way to learn a language is simply to immerse yourself in an environment where it is used. This is free and easy to do if one lives in an area with an abundance of French speakers. I don't know where you dug up these "full-time" courses but hardly anyone learns a language by sitting in class 9 to 5, people learn it by using it when living in an area where it is the prevalent language.

How did you learn your first language? You learned it before you ever started attending any classes, by talking to your parents, watching TV, reading/having books read to you, interacting with your friends etc. You are immersed in a certain language from birth and just pick it up. This process is not limited to being used just once. In fact, it is precisely the best and most natural way to learn a language, and is how I learned all 4 of the languages that I know.

Anyway, my suggestion wasn't so much for an immediate course of action for mikedavid. Obviously, getting rid of immigrants is also not an available immediate course of action for him. My point was simply to point out that if he lives in an area where bilingual requirements are frequent for jobs, then it would have been to his advantage to know both required languages.

I was frankly amazed when I was in Montreal whenever I encountered someone that had lived there their whole life and knew only one language. They are setting themselves up to always be at a massive disadvantage in all aspects of life, whether their one language is French or English. How can a person live in a community where a language is frequently used and not know it? To me, that just doesn't make sense.

Now, if he lives in an area where French is basically not used but all the jobs require knowing French anyway, then that is a problem with our government's language policies, and not with immigration.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Bonam

[Argus]

You insist that they're mutually exclusive when in fact they can go hand in hand. Immigrants take jobs, but they also create them. And more importantly, they pay taxes, thus increasing the government's revenue

Actually, according to reports on the economic status of immigrants, immigrants decrease government's revenue. Most immigrants over the couple of decades do not earn sufficient salaries to actually pay more in taxes than they consume in services. And the economic performance of immigrants vs Canadian born continues to deteriorate.

[mikedavid00]

If immigration is so good to an eeconomy, then I guess all India has to do open up its borders and let even poorer countries flood in. That will fix all its problems and create the wealth that India needs.

The only time it is BENEFICIAL to let people into a country is when you have a functioning immigration policy like the rest of the world has:

1 - You must prove you could not hire a local citizen.

2 - You must prove that person gets paid more than the general population for the work (as in France and most other countries).

In Canada, we just completely exploit foreign labour with no laws on pay. We allow companies to bring in foreign labor without them proving they could not hire Canadian (the fields out east where they bring in Jamaican migrant workers each year.. so here we have 10-15% unemployment rates, yet are allowing companies to hire only migrant worker from Jamaica?)

The stuff that goes in Canada is a crime when it comes to our immigration policies and what we allow to happen to our own labour force.

(I wont even get into healthcare, crime, racism, and all the secondary problems that immigration brings that has already been discussed to the dead horse).

Some of you people just hate your fellow citizens so much. The immigration policy and who we decide to let into OUR country belongs to *US* the people. Remember don't forget the goverment represents us the people. Yet when it comes to immigration, they are NOT acting in our best intrest. They are only acting in their OWN.

That is corruption. This has happened bad the last 15-20 years where things have so quickly went south.