How to deal with human waste

[Argus]

This is an exaggeration. I would submit that they don't see it useful to blame someone who emerges from their environment exactly as one would expect.

That's the broad brush the Left have used for decades. But for the most part, it's not valid. Lots of people had tons of chances in their youth to be succesful citizens, and chose to be criminals. How many siblings are in jail? Why does one wind up a criminal while the others don't? They all had the same chances, opportunities, faced the same problems.

Child molesters were invariably molested as children. Does the left sympathize with them?

[Argus]

The Roman government used to give food to the masses of Rome to prevent food riots; hence the "bread" in bread and circuses. Believe me, welfare ain't a new concept.

Yes, in fact, it is. For most of the history of this country you either worked or starved. The government didn't send you a cheque, and if you couldn't support your family the government took your kids away from you.

What of those who can, with support of the government, live on their own? Or is it again simply a question of economics?

No, it's not simply economics. I'm all for group homes which have responsible people ensuring those with mental disabilities are looked after. What I'm not in favour of is letting those who by definition can't take care of themselves, make their own bad decisions, such as deciding not to take their medicine, and deciding to sleep in the streets.

[Michael Hardner]

That's the broad brush the Left have used for decades. But for the most part, it's not valid. Lots of people had tons of chances in their youth to be succesful citizens, and chose to be criminals. How many siblings are in jail? Why does one wind up a criminal while the others don't? They all had the same chances, opportunities, faced the same problems.

The question should be - does environment lead people to make different choices in their lives. Specifically, does an environment with few choices produce a more significant number of criminals ?

Child molesters were invariably molested as children. Does the left sympathize with them?

The analogy seems to indicate that if we do something about molestation, then the situation will improve down the road. The punishment paradigm directs us to deal with punishment and not prevention.

[Argus]

The question should be - does environment lead people to make different choices in their lives. Specifically, does an environment with few choices produce a more significant number of criminals ?

Probably, but for every person who chooses to go on drugs, gets addicted, and starts doing B&Es and muggings, there are ten in the same situation who decide not to. So we can't just blame environment.

The analogy seems to indicate that if we do something about molestation, then the situation will improve down the road. The punishment paradigm directs us to deal with punishment and not prevention.

Criminologists will tell you that the way to make crime scarce is to make criminals scarce. An atmosphere of intollerence towards crime from the surrounding community does more to foster obedience to laws than anything else. But where you have streets filled with repeat offenders, with bragging, swaggering gang members and druggies who are in and out of the revolving door of the judicial system they produce a general lack of respect for law, and crime becomes more widespread.

[Michael Hardner]

Probably, but for every person who chooses to go on drugs, gets addicted, and starts doing B&Es and muggings, there are ten in the same situation who decide not to. So we can't just blame environment.

No, we can't just blame environment however it does seem to be a controllable factor.

Criminologists will tell you that the way to make crime scarce is to make criminals scarce. An atmosphere of intollerence towards crime from the surrounding community does more to foster obedience to laws than anything else. But where you have streets filled with repeat offenders, with bragging, swaggering gang members and druggies who are in and out of the revolving door of the judicial system they produce a general lack of respect for law, and crime becomes more widespread.

The law-and-order approach doesn't change the surrounding community though, it changes the justice system.

And in any case, either approach: more prisons or more social programs need to be funded.