lukin Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 Where was the media when February 5, 1996 - Jean Chrétien and the Liberals prorogue Parliament. September 18, 1999 - Jean Chrétien and the Liberals prorogue Parliament. September 16, 2002 - Jean Chrétien and the Liberals prorogue Parliament. November 12, 2003 - Jean Chrétien and the Liberals prorogue Parliament. Why wasn't it news then? Why is it such a big story now? Oh, I know, because PM Harper and the Conservatives prorogued and the media really dislikes the CPC. Biased journalism at its best. (CBC, CTV) Too many Canadians are duped by the media, including a number of people on this forum. Quote
nicky10013 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) Propaganda. Under no circumstance did a previous government either Conservative or Liberal have prorogued in the manner that Harper has. There is no debate in putting these up. No one is arguing about the base constitutionality of proroguement. People are only questioning the way it's been used the past two times. This thread is for spin purposes and not real debate. It's akin to calling coalitions illegal. Conservatives are merely trying to profit from the ignorance of Canadians about their political institutions. It's dispicable. Edited January 8, 2010 by Charles Anthony deleted re-copied Opening Post Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 Propaganda. Under no circumstance did a previous government either Conservative or Liberal have prorogued in the manner that Harper has. There is no debate in putting these up. No one is arguing about the base constitutionality of proroguement. People are only questioning the way it's been used the past two times. This thread is for spin purposes and not real debate. really what have you been posting for the last 24hours....spin. no response to the numbers in the ekos poll though after a little light was shined on the questions. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
nicky10013 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) really what have you been posting for the last 24hours....spin. no response to the numbers in the ekos poll though after a little light was shined on the questions. I did respond. I posted the numbers which you ignored. Furthermore, am I biased? Sure, is it political spin? Hell no. Edited January 8, 2010 by nicky10013 Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 I did respond. I posted the numbers which you ignored. Furthermore, am I biased? Sure, is it political spin? Hell no. go back and re read my post on your "numbers". And how they are wrong. I even included the math for you. But I bet you never read the polls or look at the methodology. Vitally important. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
nicky10013 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 go back and re read my post on your "numbers". And how they are wrong. I even included the math for you. But I bet you never read the polls or look at the methodology. Vitally important. Umm, I'm pretty sure I did. Nothing in there suggests anything good for the Conservatives. Quote
Smallc Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) Ho many times in the past has Parliament been prorogued with so many government bills still in progress, some simply awaiting Royal Assent? Edited January 8, 2010 by Smallc Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 Umm, I'm pretty sure I did. Nothing in there suggests anything good for the Conservatives. Funny you seem to ignore any argument that refutes your opinion. But i guess you are incapable of critical thinking. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
nicky10013 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 Where was the media when February 5, 1996 - Jean Chrétien and the Liberals prorogue Parliament. September 18, 1999 - Jean Chrétien and the Liberals prorogue Parliament. September 16, 2002 - Jean Chrétien and the Liberals prorogue Parliament. November 12, 2003 - Jean Chrétien and the Liberals prorogue Parliament. Why wasn't it news then? Why is it such a big story now? Oh, I know, because PM Harper and the Conservatives prorogued and the media really dislikes the CPC. Biased journalism at its best. (CBC, CTV) Too many Canadians are duped by the media, including a number of people on this forum. The most hilarious part of this cherade is that he probably pulled this off the Liberal Party website who has compiled their own list but conveniently left off the times where Mulroney prorogued because it just doesn't fit the anti-Liberal picture these morons want to paint. Quote
nicky10013 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) Funny you seem to ignore any argument that refutes your opinion. But i guess you are incapable of critical thinking. At least I can admit the parties which represents my own political ideology can make mistakes which is more than anyone can say of you. Edited January 8, 2010 by nicky10013 Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 At least I can admit the parties which represents my own political ideology can make mistakes Haven't seen you do it. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
nicky10013 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 Haven't seen you do it. Yes you have you just don't want to admit it. I've never turned around and said the Liberals did nothing wrong. In fact, my main argument has been that just because the Liberals did it in terms of unaccountability, which implies they've done something wrong, doesn't mean its right for the Conservatives. Adscam, Chretien choking that guy (though it was funny) etc. etc. etc. are all things that the party had to and should've apologized for. All these holier-than-thou conservatives walk around as if their guy has done nothing wrong. It's crap. Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 Yes you have you just don't want to admit it. I've never turned around and said the Liberals did nothing wrong. In fact, my main argument has been that just because the Liberals did it in terms of unaccountability, which implies they've done something wrong, doesn't mean its right for the Conservatives. Adscam, Chretien choking that guy (though it was funny) etc. etc. etc. are all things that the party had to and should've apologized for. All these holier-than-thou conservatives walk around as if their guy has done nothing wrong. It's crap. I haven't seen the conservatives do anything like adscam, has the PM choked a citizen? Face it you just don't like that it is a conservative government controlling the agenda. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
nicky10013 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 I haven't seen the conservatives do anything like adscam, has the PM choked a citizen? Face it you just don't like that it is a conservative government controlling the agenda. No I don't, but there's a difference between controlling the agenda and shutting it down. As horrible as you think adscam is, suspending democracy is just a tad worse. If parliament didn't prorogue I'd be upset with the agenda but in the end at least voices in the house would be able to speak up for me. However, you and your cronie Conservative buddies apparently don't believe that people should have voices. At least not when it's convenient to them. Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 No I don't, but there's a difference between controlling the agenda and shutting it down. As horrible as you think adscam is, suspending democracy is just a tad worse. If parliament didn't prorogue I'd be upset with the agenda but in the end at least voices in the house would be able to speak up for me. However, you and your cronie Conservative buddies apparently don't believe that people should have voices. At least not when it's convenient to them. It hasn't been shut down all the parties can continue asking the questions they want when parliament resumes on March 4. Nor has democracy been suspended, has your right to suffrage been removed? Nothing is stopping the opposition from making statements to the media. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
nicky10013 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 It hasn't been shut down all the parties can continue asking the questions they want when parliament resumes on March 4. Nor has democracy been suspended, has your right to suffrage been removed? Nothing is stopping the opposition from making statements to the media. The culmination of all those rights is my representative in the house debating public issues. They can make all the statements they want but until the house sits the government rules by decree. Furthermore, last year he blocked the lawful transfer of power to a coalition government by suspending parliament. There's no getting around it. What he's done is wrong no matter what party you vote for. Even a solid chunk of Conservatives believe so. Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 The culmination of all those rights is my representative in the house debating public issues. They can make all the statements they want but until the house sits the government rules by decree. Furthermore, last year he blocked the lawful transfer of power to a coalition government by suspending parliament. There's no getting around it. What he's done is wrong no matter what party you vote for. Even a solid chunk of Conservatives believe so. Is the culmination of those rights removed when the house is suspended for the summer? The government cannot rule by decree new legislation still requires the approval of the house of commons and the senate. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
nicky10013 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 Is the culmination of those rights removed when the house is suspended for the summer? The government cannot rule by decree new legislation still requires the approval of the house of commons and the senate. Yes, yes they can. Even you admitted that the departments still run. Right now they're just running without the oversight of parliament. Wasn't it you that said the government will still be there and the PM still in his office? Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 Yes, yes they can. Even you admitted that the departments still run. Right now they're just running without the oversight of parliament. Wasn't it you that said the government will still be there and the PM still in his office? So again I ask what happens over the summer and winter breaks when the house isn't sitting do those departments cease to run? Parliament has not been suspended indefinitely. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
capricorn Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 Even you admitted that the departments still run. Right now they're just running without the oversight of parliament. Well what do you know. Harper letting the bureaucracy operate without that bunch of baby-sitters on The Hill. Maybe he does have confidence in the minions after all. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
nicky10013 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 So again I ask what happens over the summer and winter breaks when the house isn't sitting do those departments cease to run? Parliament has not been suspended indefinitely. No it hasn't but it should never be suspended under such circumstances. It's an attempt to make an issue go away. It isn't control of the agenda, its self centred belly-aching about having to answer questions from the opposition which Harper views as weak in the first place. If they're so weak then answer the damn quesiton? I see your point about the house not sitting in the summer and over christmas, but in the end, it's always been that the MPs go home to their constitutency to deal with issues. The house was never meant during those times. And yes, the government does have the same ability to run things during those times as during times of prorogual. The difference was just that, the house was never meant to sit. He's suspending parliament because he doesn't like the questions and doesn't want to be held accountable. I suspect you won't address that part. However, I've said my piece. IF you can't get that then, well, there's no hope for you. There's something to be said about loyalty to country over party. We're in trouble if the sitting government sees hanging onto power as something greater than setting dangerous precedents which pose serious questions about the future of our democracy. Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 No it hasn't but it should never be suspended under such circumstances. It's an attempt to make an issue go away. It isn't control of the agenda, its self centred belly-aching about having to answer questions from the opposition which Harper views as weak in the first place. If they're so weak then answer the damn quesiton? I see your point about the house not sitting in the summer and over christmas, but in the end, it's always been that the MPs go home to their constitutency to deal with issues. The house was never meant during those times. And yes, the government does have the same ability to run things during those times as during times of prorogual. The difference was just that, the house was never meant to sit. He's suspending parliament because he doesn't like the questions and doesn't want to be held accountable. I suspect you won't address that part. However, I've said my piece. IF you can't get that then, well, there's no hope for you. There's something to be said about loyalty to country over party. We're in trouble if the sitting government sees hanging onto power as something greater than setting dangerous precedents which pose serious questions about the future of our democracy. Has the issue gone away....nope its still in the media. So proroguing has done no such thing, and as was said before the opposition can stand up in the house and ask the questions when parliament resumes. In Fact the average session lasts 207 days the 40th parliament had 338 days. http://www.parl.gc.ca/Common/index.asp?Language=E http://www2.parl.gc.ca/parlinfo/compilations/parliament/Sessions.aspx?Language=E Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Alta4ever Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 The only Parliamentary, procedure I am aware of that allows the Prime Minister to do the things that posters in these forums accuse the government of is the war measures act. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
ZenOps Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 Hmmm. Maybe it is time for a revolution. Dibs on the cutlery and dinnerware. Quote
nicky10013 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Posted January 8, 2010 Has the issue gone away....nope its still in the media. So proroguing has done no such thing, and as was said before the opposition can stand up in the house and ask the questions when parliament resumes. In Fact the average session lasts 207 days the 40th parliament had 338 days. http://www.parl.gc.ca/Common/index.asp?Language=E http://www2.parl.gc.ca/parlinfo/compilations/parliament/Sessions.aspx?Language=E Just because it's alive in the media doesn't make it any less right. If we have to lean on the media to uphold our democracy it's a sad state of affairs. Quote
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