Canadian Identity: un-American

Jerry J. Fortin · December 3, 2009

I'm not sure that you understand the concept of Metis. For sure they are an independent and unique culture. But they are also settlers. They raised their homes and livelihood from the soil and from their settlements. This is no different than the many immigrants who came here to settle and work.

While we can say that each of the Polish, Ukrainian, German etc. ascendants managed to preserve much of their culture, they are no less metis (small 'm') than any other Metis (capital 'M'). Canada is made up of immigrants from all over the world who became settlers and had no intention of becoming the elite - oppressive, controlling and legally dominant.

When us metis try to make change in society it is not for the benefit or to support the elite. The quest for change is almost always to bring society back to those metis roots by limiting the interference of government, the imposition that big business has on the environment and to create communities that imitate settlements, instead of subdivisions of costly houses. Our common is in settler lifestyles and the quest for wealth and accumulation of things, is really a search for the Holy Grail - which for most will never materialize. These myths are created by the elite and the corporations in order to keep us out of their opposition. They know that when the settlers do uprise (as we see with the most recent Coldwater, Ontario dump proposed on a pristine aquifer)they can easily take the power away from them.

We are settlers. If we chose to continue ignore our responsibility to other settlers as we have in the last 3 or 4 decades, then we equally deserve the high taxation, government intrusions and corrupt institutions we have in society. If not for those who take an interest and do exercise their right to protest the lack of consultation on many projects, many of us would never know there was an issue at all. For the most part, people are detached and disinterested and that is exactly how the elite want us.

So the challenge is do we collectively have the fortitude to go beyond discussion board mousing, and get involved? Who really wants to "be the change"?

Hey CR I am all for change. Change for the better of all citizens. That means resolving the differences. That means compromising during a negotiation process. It also means having reasonable expectations going into those discussions. It can be done, we just need the political will to do it.

g_bambino · December 3, 2009

In thinking about this thread, it dawned on me that we should've first defined what American identity is before debating whether or not its opposite is the Canadian variety. The thing is, I couldn't really put my finger on a singular, unique, and homogenous American identity; collectively, there are kind of vague and generalised trends of individualism, dogmatic patriotism, and a bit of a superiority complex (all of which Canadians could be said to be the antithesis of), but, can that really be all there is to it? It strikes me as too simple, yet, the US does seem to be as regionally and culturally mixed as Canada. How, then, are we so different besides what I mentioned above? Or, do the traits I pointed to infiltrate so deeply into our respective national psyches that they are enough to make the characteristics of our populations quite contrary?

[+]

Edited December 3, 2009 by g_bambino

charter.rights · December 3, 2009

Hey CR I am all for change. Change for the better of all citizens. That means resolving the differences. That means compromising during a negotiation process. It also means having reasonable expectations going into those discussions. It can be done, we just need the political will to do it.

Perhaps you are hinting at (but I am not talking about) negotiations with First Nations?

However, as metis (settlers) I am talking about oil sands & pipelines, Afghanistan, climate change...all the things we discuss here but no one does anything about. Democratic participation is not sitting on some discussion board hashing back unrealistic or marginal solutions. It is about going out in to the real world, and participating in public discussions with politicians, getting in their face when they won't come to us and driving home that no change should occur unless and until we have all been satisfied that it is in our benefit. As Canadians we do spend a lot of time discussing the subject, but nothing ever gets done because we are waiting for someone else to take the risks and make the moves....at which time we will take up another lame discussion about whether the kind of action that was taken was acceptable to us.

Without public involvement from all of us (and seeking out the involvement of the "silent majority) we might just as well forget about voting, let a fascist or communist regime have their time and just go doing as we are told. Of course both extreme ideologies have our "best interests" in mind....

I do believe that we can draw strength from First Nations in that regard, because as bad as it gets either way, they always seem to get pretty much what they were after. They can rattle cages and seemingly have enough power to eventually get the politicians attention. So maybe if we can loosely use their model we might be able to initiate change...or at least productive discussions that will lead to changes we can all accept.

Yet too few are willing to take that risk and prefer instead to sit in some comfortable chair somewhere on company time pounding opinions and suggestions into their keyboards. NO matter how hard they pound the desk and argue a point, they are not participating in democracy and are, very likely an obstacle to it.

Smallc · December 3, 2009

In thinking about this thread

I think I agree with you. What exactly is this thing, America, that we aren't? What makes them Americans? I've asked the question before, but I've never gotten an answer.

bush_cheney2004 · December 3, 2009

In thinking about this thread, it dawned on me that we should've first defined what American identity is before debating whether or not its opposite is the Canadian variety. The thing is, I couldn't really put my finger on a singular, unique, and homogenous American identity; collectively, there are kind of vague and generalised trends of individualism, dogmatic patriotism, and a bit of a superiority complex (all of which Canadians could be said to be the antithesis of), but, can that really be all there is to it?

For your purposes...yes. The Americans already know who/what they are without such neurotic doubt.

It strikes me as too simple, yet, the US does seem to be as regionally and culturally mixed as Canada. How, then, are we so different besides what I mentioned above? Or, do the traits I pointed to infiltrate so deeply into our respective national psyches that they are enough to make the characteristics of our populations quite contrary?

[+]

Yea...that's it...stop watching so much American media.

Smallc · December 3, 2009

And so the question remains unanswered...or unanswerable.

whowhere · December 3, 2009

Only in Britain.

And where does your valued Statue of Westminister reside??

Every single day of her life since 6 February 1952. Have you not yet heard of the parliament of Canada?

Actually Canada's parliament was created in 1867 in the formation of Canada, maybe you are to dense to realize that. All the Statue of Westminister did was make it so Canada's parliament was independent of the UKs parliament. The monarch still remained Canada's sovereign as was demonstrated in the joining of Newfoundland to Canada and the 1982 Constitution Act. How did the monarch deliver this to Canada? Throught the UK parliament. That is how the Queen exercises her sovereignty through the UK parlimanent. That is way it was in the past and that is the way it will be in the future.

Irrelevant. And you've been told why about sixty four times, already.

[c/e]

And you are living a fantasy.

Edited December 3, 2009 by whowhere

whowhere · December 3, 2009

And purebreeds are inbreed, screw you sister lately?

Its all science and DNA. Hate to break it to you, you are not Indian.

g_bambino · December 3, 2009

The Americans already know who/what they are without such neurotic doubt.

Okay, so you can't answer my question. Thanks for trying, though.

whowhere · December 3, 2009

I'm not sure that you understand the concept of Metis. For sure they are an independent and unique culture. But they are also settlers. They raised their homes and livelihood from the soil and from their settlements. This is no different than the many immigrants who came here to settle and work.

While we can say that each of the Polish, Ukrainian, German etc. ascendants managed to preserve much of their culture, they are no less metis (small 'm') than any other Metis (capital 'M'). Canada is made up of immigrants from all over the world who became settlers and had no intention of becoming the elite - oppressive, controlling and legally dominant.

When us metis try to make change in society it is not for the benefit or to support the elite. The quest for change is almost always to bring society back to those metis roots by limiting the interference of government, the imposition that big business has on the environment and to create communities that imitate settlements, instead of subdivisions of costly houses. Our common is in settler lifestyles and the quest for wealth and accumulation of things, is really a search for the Holy Grail - which for most will never materialize. These myths are created by the elite and the corporations in order to keep us out of their opposition. They know that when the settlers do uprise (as we see with the most recent Coldwater, Ontario dump proposed on a pristine aquifer)they can easily take the power away from them.

We are settlers. If we chose to continue ignore our responsibility to other settlers as we have in the last 3 or 4 decades, then we equally deserve the high taxation, government intrusions and corrupt institutions we have in society. If not for those who take an interest and do exercise their right to protest the lack of consultation on many projects, many of us would never know there was an issue at all. For the most part, people are detached and disinterested and that is exactly how the elite want us.

So the challenge is do we collectively have the fortitude to go beyond discussion board mousing, and get involved? Who really wants to "be the change"?

All you are doing is taking away from real Indians. The minute an Indian and a European are mixed you have journey into the Realm of being just.... Canadian. No tax breaks, No reservations, you are like everyone else, deal with it.

December 3, 2009

Its all science and DNA. Hate to break it to you, you are not Indian.

Your right I'm Metis.

bush_cheney2004 · December 3, 2009

Okay, so you can't answer my question. Thanks for trying, though.

Better still....I don't even have to think about such questions.....but it is fun to watch you ask them ad nauseum.

g_bambino · December 3, 2009

And where does your valued Statue of Westminister reside??

Ottawa.

How did the monarch deliver this to Canada? Throught the UK parliament.

The SoW was ratified by the Canadian parliament in 1931 (in contrast to Australia and New Zealand, which did not pass it through their parliaments until 1942 and 1947, respectively). And don't forget that the Canada Act reiterated the severance of legal links between the UK and Canada; it was approved by the Canadian parlaiment as a part of the Constitution Act 1982.

And you are living a fantasy.

It must seem that way to you. Hell, it must seem to you that everyone lives in a fantasy; 'cause only you could be right, eh? :lol:

whowhere · December 3, 2009

I think I agree with you. What exactly is this thing, America, that we aren't? What makes them Americans? I've asked the question before, but I've never gotten an answer.

The vote directly for their president. They have a real constitution. They have a drive to develop their infrasture. They do not give auto citizenship and they look to take advantage of the world for the benefit of the US. They have lower taxes, retail costs, and make more money. Canada could have been all of this but Canada aspires to the bottom rather do what is necessary to be a world leader in something. Older Canadians will sell out Canada to feather their own nests. There is no way the US can be labled a sell out.

g_bambino · December 3, 2009

Better still....I don't even have to think about such questions.....but it is fun to watch you ask them ad nauseum.

Maybe your rabid need to jump all over any post that has the word "America" in it caused you to overlook the part where I said these questions should have been asked at the beginning of this thread; hence, far from being asked "ad nauseum", they were never asked until I just did. Like hyperbole much? Anyway, you've already demonstrated that you can't answer the question, so run along now. Ta-ta!

g_bambino · December 3, 2009

And so the question remains unanswered...or unanswerable.

By Bushy, at least. True to form, he's just to up himself to admit it.

whowhere · December 4, 2009

Ottawa.

The SoW was ratified by the Canadian parliament in 1931 (in contrast to Australia and New Zealand, which did not pass it through their parliaments until 1942 and 1947, respectively). And don't forget that the Canada Act reiterated the severance of legal links between the UK and Canada; it was approved by the Canadian parlaiment as a part of the Constitution Act 1982.

It must seem that way to you. Hell, it must seem to you that everyone lives in a fantasy; 'cause only you could be right, eh?

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?activeTextDocId=1081723

Statute of Westminster 1931

1931 c.4 22_and_23_Geo_5

hee haw hee haw. You have to be donkey.

7.

Saving for British North America Acts and application of the Act to Canada. — (1) Nothing in this Act shall be deemed to apply to the repeal, amendment or alteration of the British North America Acts 1867 to 1930 or any order, rule or regulation made thereunder.

Edited December 4, 2009 by whowhere

Smallc · December 4, 2009

The vote directly for their president.

Yeah, we really should start voting our presidents in....wait.

They have a real constitution.

And ours is simply a figment of your imaginary imagination.

They have a drive to develop their infrastructure.

And other countries are better at it still. What's your point?

They do not give auto citizenship and they look to take advantage of the world for the benefit of the US.

Canada gives automatic citizenship? Since when?

They have lower taxes, retail costs, and make more money.

Actually, the average American doesn't make more than the average Canadian anymore. The average Joe Canadian, leaving out outliers of very poor and very rich, actually makes more and has for quite some time. We also carry less debt and have a better asset to debt ratio....oh, and we save more and spend less.

Canada could have been all of this but

But we didn't want to....so there.

bush_cheney2004 · December 4, 2009

By Bushy, at least. True to form, he's just to up himself to admit it.

I yam what I yam...some day you too will figure out your own identity, with no reason to question it on a public forum.

g_bambino · December 4, 2009

Statute of Westminster 1931
1931 c.4 22_and_23_Geo_5

You found the original British version. Congratulations.

Now, let's look at the result of constitutional evolution over the last 60 years:

S.32: The Statute of Westminster is a part of the Constitution of Canada by virtue of it being listed in the schedule to the Constitution (Constitution Act, 1982, s. 52(2)().

Rouleau, Ontario Superior Court,
O'Donohue v. Canada

Schedule to the Constitution Act 1982; 17.: Act Affected: Statute of Westminster, 1931, 22 Geo. V, c. 4 (U.K.); Amendment: (a) section 4 is repealed, and ( subsection 7(1) is repealed; New Name: Statute of Westminster, 1931.

Constitution Act 1982

So the Statute of Westminster is now Canadian law, and has already been amended by Canada so that its version differs from the one in Britain. That means Canada is... gasp! Independent! Even if the UK revokes or amends its Statute of Westminster! I'll give you a moment to get over the shock.

bush_cheney2004 · December 4, 2009

Maybe your rabid need to jump all over any post that has the word "America" in it caused you to overlook the part where I said these questions should have been asked at the beginning of this thread; hence, far from being asked "ad nauseum", they were never asked until I just did. Like hyperbole much? Anyway, you've already demonstrated that you can't answer the question, so run along now. Ta-ta!

Fat chance you royal shill....either way I will stick around just to read you invoke "America" many, many more times.

It's your question...so answer it like a true Un-Cola.

g_bambino · December 4, 2009

some day you too will figure out your own identity, with no reason to question it on a public forum.

There's always reason to question everything. It's how we learn.

bush_cheney2004 · December 4, 2009

There's always reason to question everything. It's how we learn.

Then obviously you don't ask many questions....and answer even less.

g_bambino · December 4, 2009

Then obviously you don't ask many questions....and answer even less.

Nowhere near as little as you, apparently! All this bullshit pomposity out of you just to lamely cover your own embarrassment at not being able to elucidate on what you so often brag about being so sure of. I didn't intend on it, but it appears I've called your bluff. Ha-ha! Now, as I said, either participate like a grown-up or be a good troll and run along now.

bush_cheney2004 · December 4, 2009

Nowhere near as little as you, apparently! All this bullshit pomposity out of you just to lamely cover your own embarrassment at not being able to elucidate on what you so often brag about being so sure of. I didn't intend on it, but it appears I've called your bluff. Ha-ha! Now, as I said, either participate like a grown-up or be a good troll and run along now.

Too late now...you opened up this can of worms all by your damn self.

Grown ups should know better....American or Canadian.