NDP proposes bill to protect Canadians abroad

punked · August 27, 2009

OTTAWA – Opposition parties are proposing legislation that will force the government to provide better protection for Canadians in trouble abroad following the case of Suaad Hagi Mohamud.
Ahead of a parliamentary hearing this afternoon, NDP foreign affairs critic Paul Dewar said he is drafting a bill that would hold the government and responsible cabinet ministers to account when citizens find themselves in difficulties in a foreign land.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/686791

Great bill however Liberals claim it is already law, and even though many countries have legislation like the NDP want passed the Liberals are still shy on protecting Canadians. Fearing backlash from their new right wing coalition I think.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/687145

jdobbin · August 27, 2009

Great bill however Liberals claim it is already law, and even though many countries have legislation like the NDP want passed the Liberals are still shy on protecting Canadians. Fearing backlash from their new right wing coalition I think.

Give me a break. It is the law and that is why there is a lawsuit now.

And by the way, it doesn't say the Liberals oppose. That is you saying that.

punked · August 27, 2009

Give me a break. It is the law and that is why there is a lawsuit now.
And by the way, it doesn't say the Liberals oppose. That is you saying that.

So then remind what is wrong with passing a more strict and defined law then Dobbin? One that countries like the US have already passed on top of other laws? Why do the Liberals think the status quo which has left many Canadians for months and years to get back this country is just great? Why not fix it the way the NDP suggest pass something their wont be lawsuits over a clear and defined law? It makes no sense to me why Liberals would be against this.

PS there is no law.

While a recent federal court decision (in the case of Abousfian Abdelrazik) has chipped away at the notion of Royal Prerogative invoked by Lawrence Cannon, that dealt narrowly with the issuance of a passport. Let's pass a law Dobbin stop standing the way of helping Canadians Liberal party of Canada.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinio...article1186171/

Shady · August 27, 2009

Great bill

It's not a great bill. It's a redundant bill that the NDP are using for partisan political purposes.

punked · August 27, 2009

It's not a great bill. It's a redundant bill that the NDP are using for partisan political purposes.

So you think the Conservative government has been wrong in not helping Canadians abroad get home? They lied when they said their was no law saying they have too. Wow Shady it is like your hate for me is clouding your partisanship. Hope you vote against Harper breaking laws next election.

Edited August 27, 2009 by punked

DFCaper · August 27, 2009

So you think the Conservative government has been wrong in not helping Canadians abroad get home? They lied when they said their was no law saying they have too. Wow Shady it is like your hate for me is clouding your partisanship. Hope you vote against Harper breaking laws next election.

Most cases I don't don't care about. I really feel terrible for the woman who was trapped in Kenya, but all of the people who are wanting out of there convictions got them selves in there own mess. Do the crime, do the time. Don't like the laws in a foreign country, don't go.

I think the diplomat in Kenya should be investigated to see if charges should be laid. The perons incompetence in there job cause real hardache and should be punished.

Shady · August 27, 2009

So you think the Conservative government has been wrong in not helping Canadians abroad get home?

How do you know that the government hasn't been helping? Do you have access to all the back channel communications between governments? If so, could you please post them, I'd be really interested in reading them. :lol:

Stop blaming our government for the wrongs of other country's governments, and in some cases, the irresponsibility of individual citizens.

Shady · August 27, 2009

Also, just a note to everyone in this forum. There exists very dangerous places in this world. Please be advised that it shouldn't be the Canadian taxpayer who foots the bill everytime some idiot goes trotting around the globe, in very dangerous neighbourhoods. That should be stamped on everyone's passport.

punked · August 27, 2009

How do you know that the government hasn't been helping? Do you have access to all the back channel communications between governments? If so, could you please post them, I'd be really interested in reading them.
Stop blaming our government for the wrongs of other country's governments, and in some cases, the irresponsibility of individual citizens.

It is like you don't read the news Shady ever. Abousfian Abdelrazik was in Sudan for 6 years when all the government had to do was request he be allowed to fly home. That is how I know they aren't doing anything Shady all they had to do was say "Yes he can fly home" and they didn't. Seriously what back channels does that require? It requires the government saying "yes". It is like you live in your own little world.

Glade you think the government was lying though when they said they had no obligation to do that for a Canadian citizen. Can't wait for another person on this board to be on the Harper is a liar bandwagon.

Here is a good back channel document for you though.

http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%...date=2009-05-05

punked · August 27, 2009

Also, just a note to everyone in this forum. There exists very dangerous places in this world. Please be advised that it shouldn't be the Canadian taxpayer who foots the bill everytime some idiot goes trotting around the globe, in very dangerous neighbourhoods. That should be stamped on everyone's passport.

Moving the posts so it is Canadians fault not the governments that you say lied when they say they don't have to fight for any Canadian outside the country. It is not Canadians fault, it is not a government fault when their is no law. Although the NDP will correct that if the Liberals get out of their way.

punked · August 27, 2009

Most cases I don't don't care about. I really feel terrible for the woman who was trapped in Kenya, but all of the people who are wanting out of there convictions got them selves in there own mess. Do the crime, do the time. Don't like the laws in a foreign country, don't go.
I think the diplomat in Kenya should be investigated to see if charges should be laid. The perons incompetence in there job cause real hardache and should be punished.

That is fine you have an opinion the law should not be changed. The Liberals and Conservatives agree with you. I don't.

g_bambino · August 27, 2009

So then remind what is wrong with passing a more strict and defined law then...?

It could be wrong because nobody can ever foresee every possible scenario and legislate to preemptively deal with them all. Thus, making some laws too strict can actually hinder the ability of authorities to carry out their duties. This is why a good chunk of our legal system is comprised of unwritten common law.

jdobbin · August 27, 2009

So then remind what is wrong with passing a more strict and defined law then Dobbin? One that countries like the US have already passed on top of other laws? Why do the Liberals think the status quo which has left many Canadians for months and years to get back this country is just great? Why not fix it the way the NDP suggest pass something their wont be lawsuits over a clear and defined law? It makes no sense to me why Liberals would be against this.

You are such a liar. You were caught in a big fat lie by saying Liberals were opposed. Liar, liar.

PS there is no law.

There is a law. Hence, the lawsuit.

While a recent federal court decision (in the case of Abousfian Abdelrazik) has chipped away at the notion of Royal Prerogative invoked by Lawrence Cannon, that dealt narrowly with the issuance of a passport. Let's pass a law Dobbin stop standing the way of helping Canadians Liberal party of Canada.

You are such an NDP keener that you lie and lie some more.

punked · August 27, 2009

You are such a liar. You were caught in a big fat lie by saying Liberals were opposed. Liar, liar.
There is a law. Hence, the lawsuit.

You are such an NDP keener that you lie and lie some more.

No Lie Liberals oppose a bill saying their is a law. However the Conservatives time and times again say their is no law and have left people in other countries for up to 6 years because of that fact. There is a simple solution pass an ironclad law like the States and Germany has done to defend the rights Canadians should have regardless of the government that is in power. Why don't the Liberals support this Dobbin? What are you afraid of? Why is the status quo of their having to be a lawsuit, and Canadians lobbying everytime this happens seem just dandy with the Liberals? You like your right wing coalition that much you are ready to sell out Pearson and your roots that much. I hope you do win the next election and we can see how nothing changes.

PS. Lawsuits define law they don't make them Dobbin. I could say there is no law hence the law suits.

Edited August 27, 2009 by punked

madmax · August 27, 2009

It's not a great bill. It's a redundant bill that the NDP are using for partisan political purposes.

How about those Senate Appointments.... :rolleyes:

madmax · August 27, 2009

There is a law. Hence, the lawsuit.

What Law is that?

jdobbin · August 27, 2009

No Lie Liberals oppose a bill saying their is a law.

Where? Show me.

However the Conservatives time and times again say their is no law and have left people in other countries for up to 6 years because of that fact. There is a simple solution pass an ironclad law like the States and Germany has done to defend the rights Canadians should have regardless of the government that is in power. Why don't the Liberals support this Dobbin? What are you afraid of? Why is the status quo of their having to be a lawsuit, and Canadians lobbying everytime this happens seem just dandy with the Liberals? You like your right wing coalition that much you are ready to sell out Pearson and your roots that much. I hope you do win the next election and we can see how nothing changes.

Where are Liberals opposed? Show me?

The only thing I have seen is the Liberals say there are laws in place to do this.

PS. Lawsuits define law they don't make them Dobbin. I could say there is no law hence the law suits.

You make no sense at all.

The lawsuit in place is based on the laws that Canadians have entrenched in the Charter.

jdobbin · August 27, 2009

What Law is that?

It is called the Charter.

That is where the challenge is coming from. Does royal prerogative contravene the Charter of Rights?

As the Liberals asked, if the government violates one law, what makes the NDP think they won't violate the second?

It seems to me that only a Supreme Court challenge can decide this and the appeal is to the Charter.

Argus · August 27, 2009

So you think the Conservative government has been wrong in not helping Canadians abroad get home?

Millions of Canadians travel abroad every year. The government is not their travel agent or their big brother. If you go abroad, you takes your chances - and you better make sure your papers are in order.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Argus

Hydraboss · August 27, 2009

Millions of Canadians travel abroad every year. The government is not their travel agent or their big brother. If you go abroad, you takes your chances - and you better make sure your papers are in order.

Why is this so hard for some people to understand?

One of the easiest things in the world is to enter the US from Canada without going through Customs. Walk across into northern Montana. Now, if I do that without a passport and then I get refused at the border crossing, how is this the Canadian government's fault? Did they FORCE me to leave Canada? Is it their responsibility to make sure I have papers?

Leave Canada on your own, take your chances on your own.

Smallc · August 27, 2009

If they refused you re-entry at the border, and you were a Canadian, that would be a huge constitutional problem.

Hydraboss · August 27, 2009

If they refused you re-entry at the border, and you were a Canadian, that would be a huge constitutional problem.

So anyone can show up at a Canadian border crossing without paperwork or proof of citizenship and just say "I'm Canadian. Let me in or I'll sue you."????

Smallc · August 27, 2009

No, but they couldn't simply turn you away. They would probably have to keep you there and confirm your identity.

6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.

That right is important.

Hydraboss · August 27, 2009

No, but they couldn't simply turn you away. They would probably have to keep you there and confirm your identity.
6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.

That right is important.

That may be, but it does not preclude other provisions from being placed on individuals. They can still say that you are not allowed to enter without a passport (as Americans are finding out now), and refuse entry until YOU prove you are a citizen.

There is also freedom of speech, but with conditions.