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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nation...article1253930/

Jack Layton says he is offering Canadians a new way of thinking.

But the policies approved at the NDP conference in Halifax this weekend are not new to New Democrats.

The more than 1,000 delegates endorsed action to prevent violence against aboriginal women. They endorsed enshrining childcare into law.

They endorsed investment in environmentally friendly jobs. They endorsed ending rules that prevent homosexuals from donating organs.

In the end, there were more than 50 policies approved. But there was little to raise the eyebrows of the party's socialist founders.

They didn't change their name either.

After hearing how derogatory the name change might be in Quebec, it is probably for the better.

The party seems to think that people will come around to their ways rather moving to the center. And they don't have a leader who inspires the idea of pragmatism.

The party convention seemed to focus on Nova Scotia and Manitoba but in both cases, it has been personal leadership and the idea that centrist government would be the order of the day that changed attitudes.

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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nation...article1253930/

They didn't change their name either.

After hearing how derogatory the name change might be in Quebec, it is probably for the better.

The party seems to think that people will come around to their ways rather moving to the center. And they don't have a leader who inspires the idea of pragmatism.

The party convention seemed to focus on Nova Scotia and Manitoba but in both cases, it has been personal leadership and the idea that centrist government would be the order of the day that changed attitudes.

Yah becuase the the small bisuness tax resolution which went to policy panel to be passed isn't in the centre. For all you don't know the resolution was to cut all small bisuness tax to 1%.

The bill Megan Leslie spoke of at the convention to make it so auto dealers have to provide all small mechanics and car enthusiast with specs, codes, and know how of how cars work so they can be competitive and the dealers aren't the only ones who can fix cars isn't in the centre.

Voting down a resolution for a west, east oil pipeline and limiting energy export to the US to start a trade war isn't in the centre.

It is quite obvious to be Dobbin you didn't actually watch the convention. The NDP has taken a shift to the centre where it counts. It is still not ready to deregulate all sectors of the economy, it still thinks that we need to invest in our country, but they are looking at things which will make Canada a competitive country where we can shape the better world we all need.

You haven't read one of the resolutions they passed this weekend have you?

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It is quite obvious to be Dobbin you didn't actually watch the convention. The NDP has taken a shift to the centre where it counts. It is still not ready to deregulate all sectors of the economy, it still thinks that we need to invest in our country, but they are looking at things which will make Canada a competitive country where we can shape the better world we all need.

You haven't read one of the resolutions they passed this weekend have you?

Actually, I followed the entire convention and saw all the resolutions. I didn't find them much different than what we have seen before. You think it is dramatically different than what was talked about and proposed in the election and past policy conventions?

In short, you think these are the policies and the leader to win the next election and form the first federal NDP government? And if not, why not?

Edited by jdobbin
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Actually, I followed the entire convention and saw all the resolutions. I didn't find them much different than what we have seen before. You think it is dramatically different than what was talked about and proposed in the election and past policy conventions?

I think if you looked at all 500 resolutions which will still be debated in federal council you might find your self surprised. There seems to be a moderate caucus forming being pushed by the NS, BC, Man, and some of the Ontario delegation. Of course the things we have been fighting for for years, EI, Native rights, strong CPP, and social housing get the floor time becuase when the delegates got together to order this no matter if you are from the hard left, or the fiscal right of the party we all agree on these things. It is why most of the policy we got through was passed unanimously.

However there was plenty of policy which was moving the party to say "we can do all things we want and still live in a the Canada we created." These would be policy like the small bisuness tax cut resolution, or the rural doctor tax incentive resolution. They might not have seen the floor but our council will still debate all policy which is not constitutional and has the power to make it party policy. Honestly there are the crazy left policies which will be killed in federal council but this move to the centre ones I can almost say for sure will be put through.

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In short, you think these are the policies and the leader to win the next election and form the first federal NDP government? And if not, why not?

I always like too look at this way

Popular support in the 2000 federal election:

Liberals: 40.85%

New Democrats: 8.51%

The grit/dipper spread: 32.34%

Popular support in the 2008 federal election:

Liberals: 26.26% (a decline of 14.59%)

New Democrats: 18.18% (an increase of 9.67%)

The grit/dipper spread: 8.08% (a decline of 24.26%)

When I look at that way it just don't look too bad. I mean form there if we can eat 4% of the Liberal vote (and maybe not next election but sometime in the future could easily happen) we become the opposition and while still marginalized we have a jumping point.

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However there was plenty of policy which was moving the party to say "we can do all things we want and still live in a the Canada we created." These would be policy like the small bisuness tax cut resolution, or the rural doctor tax incentive resolution. They might not have seen the floor but our council will still debate all policy which is not constitutional and has the power to make it party policy. Honestly there are the crazy left policies which will be killed in federal council but this move to the centre ones I can almost say for sure will be put through.

I saw quite a few of those policies yet to be discussed. I'm sure some will be cut but it a heck of a lot to weigh through and quite honestly, I don't see the federal party having as much control over it as some of the provincial parties do.

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When I look at that way it just don't look too bad. I mean form there if we can eat 4% of the Liberal vote (and maybe not next election but sometime in the future could easily happen) we become the opposition and while still marginalized we have a jumping point.

I don't if you will see a Liberal party as weak organizationally and financially and policy-wise as you did with Dion.

If Layton doesn't improve on numbers in a coming election, I think it will be his last election as leader.

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I saw quite a few of those policies yet to be discussed. I'm sure some will be cut but it a heck of a lot to weigh through and quite honestly, I don't see the federal party having as much control over it as some of the provincial parties do.

I agree the federal party has a very hard time keeping its coalition of Labour, the radical left, and those who want progressive action together, at the same picking up swing voters. I think they can do it, I don't know if they can do it this election, or even do it before that coalition breaks apart. However if they do, do it, this things becomes a whole different ball game. If an actual left leaning party can show they can govern to the left or centre left instead of the right it might be the Liberals who have a harder time with their coalition of left leaning members, marginalized environmentalists, and big bisuness interests. Funny thing is the only party I see as stable at this time is the party which lost it broke up and came back together realizing there was a reason they chose their company in the first place the Conservatives.

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I don't if you will see a Liberal party as weak organizationally and financially and policy-wise as you did with Dion.

If Layton doesn't improve on numbers in a coming election, I think it will be his last election as leader.

There is a lot Blame Dion as leader and I agree he had a lot to do with it but we have been down this road before.

1988

Liberal 31.9 %

New Democratic Party 20.4 %

That is only 11% difference.

1984

Liberal 28.0 %

NDP 18.8 %

That is only a 9% difference.

Striking difference is there we just need the centre left and federally we become legitimized. It has already happened in most provinces. I mean it took 250 years to win NS, we still have some time for Canada don't you think?

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Actually, I followed the entire convention and saw all the resolutions.

Liberal Leadership Convention 2009

No Leadership Race

No Policies

?

Or , if you could enlighten me to the Liberal Resolution on EI Reform. The Very Issue Mr Ignatieff is faking the country with,.

Edited by madmax
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There is a lot Blame Dion as leader and I agree he had a lot to do with it but we have been down this road before.

The Liberals were crushed in the 1980s because of the desire for change and growing disenchantment for the Liberals for a host of ills, not the least which was fiscal management.

The Liberals were divided through a lot of the 1980s and that division cost them.

I have not seen the Liberals as united since the early 1990s when Chretien and Martin decided to work in tandem on policy initiatives.

Layton did exceptionally well last election. Perhaps ran the best campaign aside from the BQ who are the champions of running effective election campaigns. If Layton can't make additional gains, he will be hard pressed to stay on. If the seat count goes down, it is doubtful the party will let him stay on.

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The Liberals were crushed in the 1980s because of the desire for change and growing disenchantment for the Liberals for a host of ills, not the least which was fiscal management.

The Liberals were divided through a lot of the 1980s and that division cost them.

I have not seen the Liberals as united since the early 1990s when Chretien and Martin decided to work in tandem on policy initiatives.

Layton did exceptionally well last election. Perhaps ran the best campaign aside from the BQ who are the champions of running effective election campaigns. If Layton can't make additional gains, he will be hard pressed to stay on. If the seat count goes down, it is doubtful the party will let him stay on.

See here is the thing the Knives don't come out in our party for not winning, Look at Tommy, look at Alexa, they come for not pushing for real social policy reform. Layton I beat if he loses seats will step down not because the party wont back him but because he will feel he did what he could for the party.

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Liberal Leadership Convention 2009

No Leadership Race

No Policies

?

Or , if you could enlighten me to the Liberal Resolution on EI Reform. The Very Issue Mr Ignatieff is faking the country with,.

No leadership race because Rae stepped down. You didn't like any of the candidates in any event so what does it matter?

The new economics of running for leadership makes people withdraw earlier. We'll see what it is like for the NDP and the Tories when they also have the same rules apply to their leadership race. As I've said before, it is a very tough funding restriction. It will get tougher if the rules on borrowing money are put into place.

I disagreed with the lack of a thorough policy convention. The party opted for policy resolutions coming straight to party headquarters for election preparedness.

As far as EI goes, what policy do your favour?

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See here is the thing the Knives don't come out in our party for not winning, Look at Tommy, look at Alexa, they come for not pushing for real social policy reform. Layton I beat if he loses seats will step down not because the party wont back him but because he will feel he did what he could for the party.

I guess we'll see what happens when the time comes.

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This just in.....

The Federal NDP convention has been moved. Due to massive growth in the party ranks, the convention will now be held at booth #6 instead of table #3 at the Burger King in Windsor, Ontario.

The change of venue will allow for up to eight people to attend, an improvement over the six person capacity offered by table #3.

Film at 11.

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This just in.....

The Federal NDP convention has been moved. Due to massive growth in the party ranks, the convention will now be held at booth #6 instead of table #3 at the Burger King in Windsor, Ontario.

The change of venue will allow for up to eight people to attend, an improvement over the six person capacity offered by table #3.

Film at 11.

Funny thing is there was about 2000 delegates at the Liberal convention and at the Conservative convention around 1300-1400 at the NDP. Those numbers are awfully close all things considered the party is still growing.

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The NDP will never change. Their trade union foundations are too strong and controlling despite trade unionism declining as a movement. Union interests will always come before that of true public interest and a social democrat platform. Rae's Social Contract demanding labour concessions during an economic crisis, BC's Fast Ferries that built low-quality ferries with paritsan union labour and Layton's thinly vieled kickbacks to construction unions and the CAW with buzzwords like "green collar jobs" and "affordable housing" reaffirms this view. Even so called moderates and pragmatists like Dexter ran on major platform planks like tax breaks on electricity and construction, policies most benefical to the party's loyal private sector unions. Doer has a legion of increasingly relatively well paid public and crown union memebership in growing public sector thanks largely to hydro development and dealing with major social problems from aborginal poverty. It is why the NDP can't break out of their poll positions and the recession and high profile labour disputes will only make things worse for them.

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Funny thing is there was about 2000 delegates at the Liberal convention and at the Conservative convention around 1300-1400 at the NDP. Those numbers are awfully close all things considered the party is still growing.
This is the first time I have heard of coverage of an NDP convention since Ed Broadbent announced his retirement.
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This is the first time I have heard of coverage of an NDP convention since Ed Broadbent announced his retirement.

And most of it was about the NDP name change which most of the party brass did not want so they ran out the clock on the discussion.

Perhaps to get attention they will do this every convention.

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I disagreed with the lack of a thorough policy convention. The party opted for policy resolutions coming straight to party headquarters for election preparedness.

As far as EI goes, what policy do your favour?

If I had to choose, I have seen the NDP in forms presented in the House of Commons and in the recent resolutions at their Policy Convention.

I have seen the CPC follow the bureacracy and increase EI 5 weeks, and add in Seti and Eti, but come up short on many fronts.

The Liberals had a convention, they have no Policy on EI. The Liberals sat in the house throughout 2008 and 2009 in the midst of the worst recession ever, and some of the HIGHEST Unemployment figures seen EVER SEEN in a single month nearly 140000 jobs lost in a single month, and the Liberals themselves did nothing. No Liberal Motions, No Liberal Private Members Bills nothing.

For many people the situation and cuts that the Liberals made to EI has put their families, homes and livelyhood in jeapardy because they are no longer eligible.

The Liberals have SAT on their hands during this unemployment disasterl. And when something could be done, immediately and was there to be done. They choose to hit the BBQ circuit in order to campaign for a fall election.

Before you ask what Policy I favour, I favour that the LPC should have been able to answer that question 8 months ago themselves.

Therefore while I see many pundits taking pot shots at the NDP ... three things can be said.

1) They held an Policy Convention

2) Policies were debated

3) They have a policy on EI to which I can agree with or not.

The Liberal Convention answer to these three points are

1) No policy convention

2) no Policy debated

3 no Policy on EI to which I can agree with or not

you can see my frustration.... and why I do not trust the Liberals on such a serious topic during such a period of high unemployment.

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And most of it was about the NDP name change which most of the party brass did not want so they ran out the clock on the discussion.

Perhaps to get attention they will do this every convention.

The gist I get is that the media made a mountain out of a molehill. There was no wave to change the name of the NDP, and I certainly was unaware until the media spoke on it. I'm sure there were alot of resolutions at a convention, and the media picked one. On other forums, as I backtrack this, many covered some of the events or commented on them live. Obviously on Friday, there couldn't have been alot of jelly behind the resolution because the delegates choose the order of the resolutions. If it was important... LIKE EI.... it would have went to the front. In other words, if the delegates felt that rebranding, was the major thing the NDP needed to do, it likely would have happened. But it wasn't there, and the media, clearly should have picked up on this. However, all their hype would have been lost, because Policy on real issues is boring, and yes, from a media standpoint, changing the Name of the NDP is a story that can sell newspapers.

If the resolution had the force behind it, like when the CCF changed the name to the NDP, or Reform changed it to Canadian Alliance then Crap, then Conservative, the resolution would have been front and centre, and if it was and the clock was ran out, sure you might have a point. But there is no report of 100s of delegates out of the 1300 or so there, believing that this issue had legs or was a priority.

It just seemed like a story that the media wanted, and knew full well it was going nowhere.

I was told on other forums there were great speeches by Doer, Broadbent .

Also some Americans from the Obama campaign spoke, but I don't see alot of media coverage on them.

The Name thing was media driven, and in every resolution convention, there is ONE resolution that the media jumps on.

Perhaps that is why there were no resolutions at the LPC convention and NO media coverage.

You just might be right... NDP did it on purpose.... ;)

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The Liberals have SAT on their hands during this unemployment disasterl. And when something could be done, immediately and was there to be done. They choose to hit the BBQ circuit in order to campaign for a fall election.

I don't disagree.

The Liberals were afraid to take a stand because they knew that it would result in an election that they were not ready for.

Even when Harper called the last election, the Liberals were not ready.

Before you ask what Policy I favour, I favour that the LPC should have been able to answer that question 8 months ago themselves.

Eight months ago, they were more concerned with getting a leader in place, reforming their organization and working on fundraising and coming up with an election platform and policies.

I am sure the Tories would have been happy to go to an election given the lack of preparedness.

Therefore while I see many pundits taking pot shots at the NDP ... three things can be said.

1) They held an Policy Convention

2) Policies were debated

3) They have a policy on EI to which I can agree with or not.

The deferred as many policies as the Liberals did, it seems. They do have a policy on EI which the Liberals did not follow through on because it would have resulted in an election they were not ready for.

And given your disgust at the prospect of another election, it is worth noting that these feelings on a national level were not likely to result in a good result.

As I have argued all along, people seem to want to have it two ways: No elections but then they seem to want force policies through that would result in one.

The Liberal Convention answer to these three points are

1) No policy convention

2) no Policy debated

3 no Policy on EI to which I can agree with or not

Which I disagreed with.

The Liberals have grown so accustomed to the idea that Harper is going to call a snap election that they are playing everything close to their chest.

you can see my frustration.... and why I do not trust the Liberals on such a serious topic during such a period of high unemployment.

Which is why you'll have to decide if you are willing to support the other parties or hold your nose in the next election.

Or you can run if you have the answers.

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The Name thing was media driven, and in every resolution convention, there is ONE resolution that the media jumps on.

Perhaps that is why there were no resolutions at the LPC convention and NO media coverage.

You just might be right... NDP did it on purpose.... ;)

Just as the Liberals had brought in Americans and Bono for their big events.

This time they wanted no one to really pay attention. I still think there are policies ready to go for the fall but the Liberals feel so burned for revealing them too soon that they keep them till the last minute.

It is hard to argue with success. The Tories released their election platform with only days left in the campaign.

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