Alta4ever Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 One thing I do find interesting is that they used higher deductible for Manitoba. Perhaps $500 in Manitoba provides the same coverage as $300 in other places? Manitoba does have a $300 deductible, and it is only a few dollars more per year. We have $200 on all vehicles with 1M liability. Yes you have to buy down your deducible in Manitoba typically you get this through a private insurance company. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
punked Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) You do realise that they picked the nedian rate to do all these surveys not the lowest or the average, thos fact flaws the whole document, as each senarior listed in that report of dobbins will have a very low rate to a very high rate and the median rate is the midlle number in an arranged group, it does not take into account what they actual average is. This also does not reflect any of the prices actually paid on in force policies. Just theoretical numbers, and as a consumer are you going to take the middle price or the lowest price. That study is fundementally flawed. NO Dobbins study compared the price the same person would pay for the same car across the country. Guess what? Public came out on top every time. Which be the most unbiased study becuase if we compared the auto insurance someone who has $10 000 car in NB to a person who has a $500 000 car in BC and concluded BC cost more becuase it was public that would be stupid. Edited August 7, 2009 by punked Quote
Smallc Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 Yes you have to buy down your deducible in Manitoba Ummm, I've never seen a system of any kind that didn't require you to pay more for a lower deductible. Quote
Alta4ever Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 Ummm, I've never seen a system of any kind that didn't require you to pay more for a lower deductible. Yes but you buy your basic coverage from MPI, then do the deducible buy down through a private insurance company. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Alta4ever Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 NO Dobbins study compared the price the same person would pay for the same car across the country. Guess what? Public came out on top every time. Which be the most unbiased study becuase if we compared the auto insurance someone who has $10 000 car in NB to a person who has a $500 000 car in BC and concluded BC cost more becuase it was public that would be stupid. You are not reading do you know what a median is? People do not pay the median price out of a list they pay the lowest. The report was also based on received quotes not policy totals from in force policies. Those quotes also do not take into account policy discounts that an experiance broker will also find. Of course you can't compair did coverages and different vehicles the vaible have to stay the same, I did have a problem with that did I? The biggest fault is that you cannot compair a median price from 30 companies because you will have a wide range of numbers for instance eg. 143, 286, 500, 800, 2000 the median is 800 but the average is 585. Now you also have to take into account consumer habbits, and I offered those same five numbers to you all represent the same coverage on the same car which would you rather pay, would you pay the median? Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
punked Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) You are not reading do you know what a median is? People do not pay the median price out of a list they pay the lowest. The report was also based on received quotes not policy totals from in force policies. Those quotes also do not take into account policy discounts that an experiance broker will also find. Of course you can't compair did coverages and different vehicles the vaible have to stay the same, I did have a problem with that did I? The biggest fault is that you cannot compair a median price from 30 companies because you will have a wide range of numbers for instance eg. 143, 286, 500, 800, 2000 the median is 800 but the average is 585. Now you also have to take into account consumer habbits, and I offered those same five numbers to you all represent the same coverage on the same car which would you rather pay, would you pay the median? Fine you want average rates here it is http://www.consumer.ca/pdfs/cac_2005_study...ly_18_2005_.pdf BC is still cheaper. OUCH. Here is another one. Public wins again. http://www.consumer.ca/pdfs/030717_report.pdf Ouch. So now median so out for you, and average next you will be saying it has to be the one with the lowest standard deviation. lol Edited August 7, 2009 by punked Quote
Alta4ever Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 Fine you want average rates here it ishttp://www.consumer.ca/pdfs/cac_2005_study...ly_18_2005_.pdf BC is still cheaper. OUCH. Here is another one. Public wins again. http://www.consumer.ca/pdfs/030717_report.pdf Ouch. So now median so out for you, and average next you will be saying it has to be the one with the lowest standard deviation. lol The first problem with this so far 2.2 Alberta instated a cap on a specfit injury claim soft tissue whip lash not all injury claims which it infers. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
punked Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) The first problem with this so far 2.2 Alberta instated a cap on a specfit injury claim soft tissue whip lash not all injury claims which it infers. Citation needed. I gave you yours. But here is another comparison for you though. http://www.consumer.ca/pdfs/030801_report.pdf Edited August 7, 2009 by punked Quote
Alta4ever Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 The first problem with this so far 2.2 Alberta instated a cap on a specfit injury claim soft tissue whip lash not all injury claims which it infers. More problems no data set displayed no definitions what is an average size city. Two different sized data sets are compaired The Association utilized 2,973,980 auto insurance rate quotes covering 357 communities in Ontario plus the 803,017 quotes from 219 communities in Alberta and British Columbia. Again they are using quotes not the average of inforce policies. People in private insurance tend to shop around (multiple quotes from the same companies) and buy the lowest policy they find. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Alta4ever Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 Citation needed. I gave you yours.But here is another comparison for you though. http://www.consumer.ca/pdfs/030801_report.pdf Alberta wins case to cap whiplash claims http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Alberta+...0105/story.html Now this is only for minor whiplash, if it whiplash that results in permanent damage it is not capped. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Smallc Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 Yes but you buy your basic coverage from MPI, then do the deducible buy down through a private insurance company. And why would I care, since I can buy it down for such a small amount from MPI? Quote
Alta4ever Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 Citation needed. I gave you yours.But here is another comparison for you though. http://www.consumer.ca/pdfs/030801_report.pdf The data used in this report is derived from the 2003 report that Dobbin posted which I have already debunked. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Alta4ever Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 One thing that I do know where government run rates are cheaper was on drivers under 25, but I have not seen any reports since Albeta introduced a parallel grid rating system. It may or may not be the case now. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
punked Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 Alberta wins case to cap whiplash claimshttp://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Alberta+...0105/story.html Now this is only for minor whiplash, if it whiplash that results in permanent damage it is not capped. That is what the study says. It also has no effects on the average numbers. The ones you kept crying for. Quote
punked Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 The data used in this report is derived from the 2003 report that Dobbin posted which I have already debunked. No you haven't because your debunking was "they only show the median numbers" but in my report they are the average numbers you so cry for. You did not debunk the numbers you refused to accept them based on them becuase the median well now you have the mean numbers. Sorry nice spin. Quote
Alta4ever Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 And why would I care, since I can buy it down for such a small amount from MPI? Don't know why you would care, but it is a fact, private insurers offer a deductable buy down as well in Manitoba. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Alta4ever Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 No you haven't because your debunking was "they only show the median numbers" but in my report they are the average numbers you so cry for. You did not debunk the numbers you refused to accept them based on them becuase the median well now you have the mean numbers. Sorry nice spin. Those are not mean numbers. For it to be valid the umbers that should be averaged are on the policies purchased not the quotes given. You do not buy a policy based on the quote average, you buy the policy with the lowest number. eg. Person one quotes 1232, 1454, 1328, 1562, 1384 policy bought $1232 quote average 1392 person two quotes 1565, 1425, 1695, 1750, 1850 policy perchased $1425 quote average 1657 person three quotes 800, 1250, 921, 1000, 898 policy purchased $800 quote average 974 (rounded to the whole) the average dollars actually paid 1152 the average of all the quotes 1341 (rounded to the whole) Which of the two numbers more accuately reflects what the consumer is actually purchasing? its the 1152. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Alta4ever Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 Those are not mean numbers.For it to be valid the umbers that should be averaged are on the policies purchased not the quotes given. You do not buy a policy based on the quote average, you buy the policy with the lowest number. eg. Person one quotes 1232, 1454, 1328, 1562, 1384 policy bought $1232 quote average 1392 person two quotes 1565, 1425, 1695, 1750, 1850 policy perchased $1425 quote average 1657 person three quotes 800, 1250, 921, 1000, 898 policy purchased $800 quote average 974 (rounded to the whole) the average dollars actually paid 1152 the average of all the quotes 1341 (rounded to the whole) Which of the two numbers more accuately reflects what the consumer is actually purchasing? its the 1152. I forgot to mention your report relefts the quote averages not the actually average policy. If you also take into account that the client shops 3 brokerages, and of the 3 brokerages they all have 1 common company that return the same quote, and two unique ones it also throws out the quote average. 1000, 1000, 1000, 1200, 1100, 900, 1300, 1250, 950 average equals 1077 if you just average the 7 different companies 1000, 1200, 1100, 900, 1300, 1250, 950 the average equals 1100 Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
punked Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 Those are not mean numbers.For it to be valid the umbers that should be averaged are on the policies purchased not the quotes given. You do not buy a policy based on the quote average, you buy the policy with the lowest number. eg. Person one quotes 1232, 1454, 1328, 1562, 1384 policy bought $1232 quote average 1392 person two quotes 1565, 1425, 1695, 1750, 1850 policy perchased $1425 quote average 1657 person three quotes 800, 1250, 921, 1000, 898 policy purchased $800 quote average 974 (rounded to the whole) the average dollars actually paid 1152 the average of all the quotes 1341 (rounded to the whole) Which of the two numbers more accuately reflects what the consumer is actually purchasing? its the 1152. Funny becuase the chart says and I quote "Average Annual Auto Insurance Rate by Province" Then it has a bunch of bar graphs comparing three public insurance provinces BC SK MB to three non public NB NS NF. The public insurance bars are smaller BTW. Although thanks for math lesson I am always happy to use my degree in Statistics. Here is another quote for you from the other report I cited. "Alberta consumers pay on average about twice as much for auto insurance than consumers in the other three western provinces with public auto insurance systems." Thought I might highlight that for you. http://www.consumer.ca/pdfs/030827_report.pdf http://www.consumer.ca/pdfs/030801_report.pdf Quote
Alta4ever Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 That is what the study says. It also has no effects on the average numbers. The ones you kept crying for. it does not reflect actual policy averages it reflects quote averages, which as demonstrated is flawed data. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
punked Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 it does not reflect actual policy averages it reflects quote averages, which as demonstrated is flawed data. So the median number was not good enough you wanted the mean, I gave you the mean it was not good enough now you want lowest quote numbers. Keep moving the goal posts Alta someday you will come up with a win. Not today though. Quote
Alta4ever Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 Funny becuase the chart says and I quote "Average Annual Auto Insurance Rate by Province" Then it has a bunch of bar graphs comparing three public insurance provinces BC SK MB to three non public NB NS NF. The public insurance bars are smaller BTW. Although thanks for math lesson I am always happy to use my degree in Statistics. Here is another quote for you from the other report I cited. "Alberta consumers pay on average about twice as much for auto insurance than consumers in the other three western provinces with public auto insurance systems." Thought I might highlight that for you. http://www.consumer.ca/pdfs/030827_report.pdf http://www.consumer.ca/pdfs/030801_report.pdf So why do you not understand that the medians are invalid numbers to use as are the highest quotes, its not just about statistics its also about consumer habits, and I have yet to see a consumer that always pays the mean on three identical products. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
punked Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 So why do you not understand that the medians are invalid numbers to use as are the highest quotes, its not just about statistics its also about consumer habits, and I have yet to see a consumer that always pays the mean on three identical products. Good thing I gave you means. Like it or not taking the mean is probably the best bet because those who give you the lowest quotes are hedging their bets and your insurance could easily go up by 40% as it has in Alberta over the last 5 years. Ohhhh BTW Manitoba over those 5 years 5%. Go figure. Quote
Alta4ever Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 So the median number was not good enough you wanted the mean, I gave you the mean it was not good enough now you want lowest quote numbers. Keep moving the goal posts Alta someday you will come up with a win. Not today though. you did not give me the mean of policies purchased you gave me the mean of the policies quoted. Again I ask you with 30 identical policies quoted, as a consumer which policy do you buy the one in the middle, the average or the lowest. Not a one of your links takes into account the purchasing habits of consumers. The client always wants the best policy for the lowest price. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Alta4ever Posted August 7, 2009 Report Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) Good thing I gave you means. Like it or not taking the mean is probably the best bet because those who give you the lowest quotes are hedging their bets and your insurance could easily go up by 40% as it has in Alberta over the last 5 years. Ohhhh BTW Manitoba over those 5 years 5%. Go figure. Actually it cannot go up 40% in one year because a regulatory board has to approve all auto rate increases in Alberta, in fact the companies just filed a rate drop here. Edited August 7, 2009 by Alta4ever Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
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