Has the national Anthem lost all meaning?

[lily]

It's interesting to note too that Heritage Canada also includes an instrumental version on its website.

You keep mentioning the instrumental version. I don't think anyone has a problem with using that... but at an international event where more than one country's anthem will be played, doesn't it make sense to have them all be the "same"? Why use an instrumental for one and have a live singer for another?

[Machjo]

Or alternatively:

ᐆ ᑲᓇᑕ! ᓇᖕᒥᓂ ᓄᓇᕗᑦ!

ᐱᖁᔭᑏ ᓇᓚᑦᑎᐊᖅᐸᕗᑦ.

ᐊᖏᒡᓕᕙᓪᓕᐊᔪᑎ,

ᓴᙱᔪᓗᑎᓪᓗ.

ᓇᖏᖅᐳᒍ, ᐆ ᑲᓇᑕ,

ᒥᐊᓂᕆᑉᓗᑎ.

ᐆ ᑲᓇᑕ! ᓄᓇᑦᓯᐊ!

ᓇᖏᖅᐳᒍ ᒥᐊᓂᕆᑉᓗᑎ,

ᐆ ᑲᓇᑕ, ᓴᓚᒋᔭᐅᖁᓇ!

Each of the words of at least this version were created on North American soil. I believe a Cree version exists too, which might be even more appropriate considering its spread across many Canadian provinces and even parts of southern Nunavut. Why could we not have that as our official version? A version each word of which was created on our own soil, not overseas.

[Machjo]

You keep mentioning the instrumental version. I don't think anyone has a problem with using that... but at an international event where more than one country's anthem will be played, doesn't it make sense to have them all be the "same"? Why use an instrumental for one and have a live singer for another?

We shouldn't think of an instrumental version as being necessarily inferior if played live.

Now if one country's Anthem is live while ours is just played from a CD, that's another matter.

[lily]

I admit, sometimes I prefer an instrumental, because then I can sing along.

[Smallc]

I like instrumental, it sounds far more official.

[Guest TrueMetis]

I'm in favour of Machjo's suggestion.

Edited July 29, 2009 by TrueMetis

[Machjo]

I'm in favour of Machjo's suggestion.

Is that a jokie?

I'd been throwing out a few suggestions up there. Which suggestion are you referring to?

[Machjo]

Personally though, I prefer a capella to instrumental, though instrumental is nice too, as are combined instrumental and voice.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Is that a jokie?

I'd been throwing out a few suggestions up there. Which suggestion are you referring to?

The Native version Check this out it's sung in Cree

Edited July 29, 2009 by TrueMetis

[Machjo]

The Native version Check this out it's sung in Cree

OK, now I was half-joking, but also half serious, in my suggestion. The serious side comes from the fact that, with both English and French being dominant languages in Canada, choosing a local indigenous language could help to depoliticize it to some degree (it's not like such a language woudl be a real threat to either English or French anyway) between English and French speakers while raising respect for the indigenous languages of the land, and also helping to give Canada deeper cultural roots in the land instead of overseas. It should be about time by now. We'd been separate from Europe for awhhile now after all.

The joking side comes from the fact that it could also introduce a new political element if it should result in rivalries between First Nations.

Though I did make the suggestion, I have to say that it would have to be well thought out and consulted on with all the First Nations before we tried such a thing.

Now, if, and I say IF, all the First Nations could agree to one official Aboriginal version to replace English and French, I'd be all for it. It wouldn't take too long to learn to sing a song in a new language and to learn the meaning of the new verses.

Now that's the question: Could all the First Nations agree on one official First Language version? Of course we could still allow non-official versions and no one would force anyone to sing the official version, and instrumental versions could be used too. But for symbolic reasons (one official version to represent one country, and an indigenous version to represent our roots in Canada and not abroad), we'd have one official version, to be used at each person's discretion. I think many Canadians would choose to learn it just because it's official anyway.

But again, this would be all conditional on the First Nations being able to agree to one official Aboriginal version.

[Guest TrueMetis]

OK, now I was half-joking, but also half serious, in my suggestion. The serious side comes from the fact that, with both English and French being dominant languages in Canada, choosing a local indigenous language could help to depoliticize it to some degree (it's not like such a language woudl be a real threat to either English or French anyway) between English and French speakers while raising respect for the indigenous languages of the land, and also helping to give Canada deeper cultural roots in the land instead of overseas. It should be about time by now. We'd been separate from Europe for awhhile now after all.

The joking side comes from the fact that it could also introduce a new political element if it should result in rivalries between First Nations.

Though I did make the suggestion, I have to say that it would have to be well thought out and consulted on with all the First Nations before we tried such a thing.

Now, if, and I say IF, all the First Nations could agree to one official Aboriginal version to replace English and French, I'd be all for it. It wouldn't take too long to learn to sing a song in a new language and to learn the meaning of the new verses.

Now that's the question: Could all the First Nations agree on one official First Language version? Of course we could still allow non-official versions and no one would force anyone to sing the official version, and instrumental versions could be used too. But for symbolic reasons (one official version to represent one country, and an indigenous version to represent our roots in Canada and not abroad), we'd have one official version, to be used at each person's discretion. I think many Canadians would choose to learn it just because it's official anyway.

But again, this would be all conditional on the First Nations being able to agree to one official Aboriginal version.

I'm willing to bet the First Nations could agree on an offical version. We just need someone to bring it up.

[Machjo]

I'm willing to bet the First Nations could agree on an offical version. We just need someone to bring it up.

Maybe you're right. Personally though, I think one symbol of a united country would be one official Anthem, not two. I can't see English speakers and French speakers ever agreeing to one (they'd kill each other before that ever happenned). But maybe you're right, maybe there could be agreement on one Aboriginal version. It would also be a step in shifting the geographic centre of our culture from Europe to North America. We're not Europeans anymore after all.

[Dave_ON]

This is what I mean when I say the Anthem has lost all meaning. It shouldn't be about threatening to kill those who change the school policy, and it certainly shouldn't be about bopping baby seals on the head. One should sing Oh Canada as a sign of his love for the country, as a sign of his patriotism.

In a sense, it's like prayer. One prays out of deep conviction with personal significance to him, but does not force it on others, satisfying himself that others will remain respectfully silent.

The same should apply with the Anthem. It has nothing to do with who's the PM, or whether we like him, or whether we agree with the country's policies. A person could oppose certain policies of the government's yet still love Canada. I disagree with Official Bilingualism, I'm vegan too, so should I refuse to sing Oh Canada until everyone stops eating meat?

I disagree. While those few who threatened to principal were in the wrong, the rest of the province and consequently the government reacted properly by changing the law. The Principal is the one that did not respect the community that he was in, nor did he respect or believe in the words that he himself would have sung every day. He took away their freedom to have the national anthem sung on a daily basis and forced them to only sing it at assemblies. His actions proved he did not respect what I feel is one of the central points of the anthem. “True North strong and free.”

The principal is not the least bit free of guilt in this matter nor is he more patriotic then the community he was working in. He took away their freedom of choice. The community made the choice long ago to have the national anthem sung on a daily basis. They had no interest in changing this policy yet it was forced upon them without consultation. They reacted, some overreacted, the same way anyone does when their freedom of choice is taken away. They fought back. Those who object to the daily singing are still given the freedom of choice not to participate if it is for religious reasons. They don't have the right, because they object to it, to prevent others from participating in it if they want to. Clearly based on the reaction of the community and the entire province those who object to the daily singing are in the minority.

On a final note your definition of patriotism is all well and good for you, and you can believe what you wish, but you don't have the right to tell others how to show their patriotism, nor is your brand superior on a moral or esoteric level. We all express ourselves in different ways and that includes our patriotism. Some of us are silent and reverent; others wave flags and hold parades. One is not better than the other and is more so a reflection of one's culture and personality.

[Dave_ON]

Maybe you're right. Personally though, I think one symbol of a united country would be one official Anthem, not two. I can't see English speakers and French speakers ever agreeing to one (they'd kill each other before that ever happenned). But maybe you're right, maybe there could be agreement on one Aboriginal version. It would also be a step in shifting the geographic centre of our culture from Europe to North America. We're not Europeans anymore after all.

I think this would cause the anthem to lose all meaning, the very thing you perceive it already has. Singing your anthem in a language that is not your own would be meaningless. The words would be foreign to you, even if you did know their meaning, and you would have no direct connection to you. They would always be alien. This is why there are several versions of the anthem including native versions. They created their own versions to bring meaning to them on a fundamental level. Meaning is intricately entwined with language, the two are impossible to separate.

It would be impossible to create one version that is representative of all of Canada as we are a confederation of different regions. The two largest cultures in Canada are French and English and each of those have their own sub sets. The French Quebecois are vastly different from the Acadians, the Métis and French Ontario. The English Maritimers have nothing in common with English Ontario, the Prairies are different from Ontario and BC, and then we have the variance in the NW Territories, the Yukon as well as Nunavut.

We may not be European anymore, but we're also not First Nation peoples. We have created a new culture and the fact that we share two languages with two European countires, doesn't make the anthem any less Canadian.

I think the current English version is sufficiently general enough as to encompass what we share in common, namely our love of freedom and our willingness to preserve it.

[tango]

I would suggest a few minor changes:

"O Canada! Our home and on native land!

True patriot love in all thy sons of us commands.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,

The True North, strong and free!

From far and wide, O Canada,

We stand on guard for thee.

God We keep our land glorious and free !

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee."