Gay Rights, why is it even an issue?

[Shraytus]

As Pierre Trudeau said, (to my best memory) "What people do in their own homes, if it's not against the law, and no one's getting hurt, the government as no say in it." This theory should be made a complete reality. Homosexual and lesbian individuals, in my opinion, with their own sexual orientations, and that is their business, and their business only. Love who you want to love, within reason obviously, and I believe, with no confusion in myself, that gay rights should be supported to their fullest potential.

My major argument, however, is how far some of the more "flamboyant" members of the gay community take their preference to such a public level. Gay pride parades, and the likes, are, an unacceptable demonstration of sexuality which bears no significance to their current struggle against oppression. If an individual is gay, or otherwise, marry who you want, don't hide what you are, but the people around you have no business - and I'm sure frankly don't care - whether you're gay or straight or bisexual. If my neighbours are man and man, or woman and woman, and they keep their sex life - and all other aspects that that entails - in their private affairs as all others do, then you shall gain all my possible unwavering support.

[Argus]

Surely you jest.

I looked it up. :-O

[Argus]

Argus... are you seriously trying to use the 20 partner mark to define normalcy ?

So having 19 lovers is not 'poly' ?

I guess sexuality is a subjective thing isn't it ?

I was going by the statistics I found which showed what most adults reported as their total number of sexual partners prior to marriage. I believe it was from 5-20, most people reporting about eight or nine I believe.

[tango]

Fair enough but rather then getting hung up on the term "alternative lifestyle" you may want to read what spme of these prominant reserchers have found about mental illness and homosexuality .

Gonsiorek, J.C. (1982): Results of psychological testing on homosexual populations. In: Homosexuality. Social, Psychological and Biological Issues. California,

Riess, B. (1980): Psychological tests in homosexuality. In: Homosexual Behavior: A Modern Appraisal.

Ross, M.W. (1988): Homosexuality and mental health: a cross-cultural review.

Sandfort, T.G.M.; de Graaf, R.; Bijl, R.V.; Schnabel (2001): Same-sex sexual behavior and psychiatric disorders.

You can find anything you want in the anti-gay literature. So what?

Gay is not a choice. It's simply a reality. If it's not your own reality, butt out. It doesn't affect you and it's none of your business.

People who prefer same sex partners are not "mentally ill."

People who are hellbent against same sex people, though, may well be mentally ill, imo, because they spend inordinate amounts of time obsessing about something that has absolutely nothing to do with them. (?)

I don't like narrow-minded religious bigots. I think they are sick and disgusting. However, that's my opinion and has nothing to do with their right to exist as they please, so long as they do not infringe on the rights of other people.

Narrow minded religious bigots, in my experience, are much more likely to infringe on the rights of others than homosexuals are.

Edited July 30, 2009 by tango

[CANADIEN]

The American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from its diagnostic list of mental disorders in 1973,not because the science supported it but because they thought it would reduce the stigma . Since then we have discovered that homosexuals are six times more likely to try to commit suicide , fifteen times more likely to be bulimic . 38% of homosexual men have antisocial personality disorder (Ellis 1995 ) It is clear now that homosexuality is in fact a mental illness not an alternative life style .

Nothing to do, of course, whit the hostility that homosexuals are likely to encounter because of who they are? Those homosexuals who are accepted by their family and friends for who they are are less likely to commit suicide, less likely to have mental disorders than those who are not.

Edited August 4, 2009 by CANADIEN

[zinc]

And just to add, those who think being gay is a choice are the ones mentally ill, it's a shame they don't list that one down

[MontyBurns]

Let me just preface this (before people ask) and say that yes, I am gay, and yes...I am in favor of literally everything gay rights (ie: equal rights)

I'm just curious, we're in the 21st century, so why is this even an issue? I have dual-citizenship so I do spend the majority of my time debating in the US (we're a lot more accepting in Canada) but I still can't, to this day fathom how issues like gay marriage or gay adoption can be "hot" topics.

The majority (if not all) of the opponents are almost exclusively religious, it's even more comical to hear them say things like "we're just trying to protect a definition!" - ironic when you come to understand the origins of marriage and how it's changed thousands of times in thousands of cultures.

So, is it just me or what?

If gay is normal then why does it have to be promoted? Nobody promotes heterosexuality because it is natural and assumed.

[M.Dancer]

If gay is normal then why does it have to be promoted? Nobody promotes heterosexuality because it is natural and assumed.

Privates are normal. They get promoted...

Hetrosexuality is promoted everywhere....everywhere...everywhere.

http://www.tellyads.com/show_movie.php?filename=TA2859

Now lets assume, naturally, that any of these ads could be gay...

[CANADIEN]

If gay is normal then why does it have to be promoted? Nobody promotes heterosexuality because it is natural and assumed.

Fallacy.

HOMOSEXUALITY is not promoted. RESPECT OF THE RIGHTS OF HOMOSEXUALS is promoted. Not the same thing, not at all.

If anything, it is hetorosexuality that is promoted, and in some cases forced upon people.

[GostHacked]

My intention was not to get into a discussion about HIV Aids but that the current science points to homosexuality as a mental illness .

What are your thoughs on transgendered people and transexual people? Are those mental illnesses as well?

CANADIEN

Nothing to do, of course, whit the hostility that homosexuals are likely to encounter because of who they are? Those homosexuals who are accepted by their family and friends for who they are are less likely to commit suicide, less likely to have mental disorders than those who are not.

I have often found that people who are not secure in themselves and their sexuality will be the ones most likely to be offended and end up picking on the gays. I have noticied this throughout my life. Me, I have no problems with gays,or their lifestyle. I know a few gay couples, these ones are not very different from any other everyday people in how they carry on their daily lives. I know a few single gays as well. Most of homosexuals like heterosexuals are looking for someone they can be with and be comfortable with and be themselves at the same time.

We have a guy here who is gay and he gets picked on often enough from the rest of the straight guys. I think he is currently on sick leave because of the stress the other guys put on him. And I think this is where you will find the stats higher for this group in terms of suicide. It is because the straight people will not STFU and let them live their lives. NOPE, they gotta get into their lives and berate and belittle them to death. And many just don't know how to deal with the stress. Since everyone is picking on him, who does this guy turn to when he needs support?

I also suspect eveeryone here knows a few gay people, but yet they have no idea that that person IS gay. And when you find out they are gay after knowing them for years ... what do you say?

A] It does not matter?

OR

B] You end the friendship?

If you choose B, then it is not the gays who have the problem.

Edited August 5, 2009 by GostHacked

[CANADIEN]

I have often found that people who are not secure in themselves and their sexuality will be the ones most likely to be offended and end up picking on the gays.

I tend to find that theory to be a bit simplistic. Not to say there are not many people who lash out at gays out of insecurity.

I also suspect eveeryone here knows a few gay people, but yet they have no idea that that person IS gay. And when you find out they are gay after knowing them for years ... what do you say?

Happened to me. When one of my best friends told me she was gay, my knee-jerk response was "and?"

[MontyBurns]

Fallacy.

HOMOSEXUALITY is not promoted. RESPECT OF THE RIGHTS OF HOMOSEXUALS is promoted. Not the same thing, not at all.

If anything, it is hetorosexuality that is promoted, and in some cases forced upon people.

straight = normal

transgendered, transexual, gay, etc. = eccentric

It couldn't be simpler.

[CANADIEN]

straight = normal

transgendered, transexual, gay, etc. = eccentric

It couldn't be simpler.

Still does not change the fact that your statement about homosexuality being promoted is a fallacy.

[MontyBurns]

Still does not change the fact that your statement about homosexuality being promoted is a fallacy.

Don't gay pride festivals promote homosexuality?

Christ, haven't you come across all the gay-mongers out there? They are everywhere these days.

Edited August 5, 2009 by MontyBurns

[CANADIEN]

Don't gay pride festivals promote homosexuality?

If by promoting, you mean making people aware it exist, yes. But I would argue that's a bit large of a description of the term.

If by that, you mean that they are encouraging people to "become" homosexual, this is complete non-sense. One person does not become homosexual just because they are in contact (no pun intended) with homosexuals.

It would be interested to see a definition of the term "gay-monger".

Edited August 5, 2009 by CANADIEN

[MontyBurns]

If by promoting, you mean making people aware it exist, yes.

Ok so it is promoted.

All I'm saying is that if gay behavior is normal then why do they need gay-mongerers and festivals? Think about how silly a Straight Pride festival would be.

[MontyBurns]

It would be interested to see a definition of the term "gay-monger".

A person who mouths gay rhetoric.

Similar to a fearmonger, warmonger, etc.

[M.Dancer]

Ok so it is promoted.

gay-mongerers

What's a gay mongerer?

[M.Dancer]

A person who mouths gay rhetoric.

Similar to a fearmonger, warmonger, etc.

Sounds like, if similar phrases are like fear mongerer, you are describing yourself.

[MontyBurns]

Sounds like, if similar phrases are like fear mongerer, you are describing yourself.

I'm not fear mongering.

[CANADIEN]

Ok so it is promoted.

It is not. Your definition is wrong.

All I'm saying is that if gay behavior is normal then why do they need gay-mongerers and festivals? Think about how silly a Straight Pride festival would be.

The only reason why it would be silly is because some would hijack it to turn it into a hate-fest.

[CANADIEN]

Sounds like, if similar phrases are like fear mongerer, you are describing yourself.

I have to agree with MB here. Sounds to me like ignorance and prejudice-mongering.

[MontyBurns]

All I'm saying here is that if gays are normal then they should act normal.

What straight person would go to a straight pride parade naked and depict a sex act to promote heterosexuality?

Edited August 5, 2009 by MontyBurns

[Oleg Bach]

Putting so-called sexuality aside - I do resent when I cross the Don River into my neighbourhood - that just before the bridge..there are some weather vanes - that boast gay colours ...as if my hood belonged to the gays and I as a straight was secondary..as if they took possession of where I live and are making it another ghetto- This reminds me of one winter when I passed by the Ontario legislature - and a huge Manora was on the lawn - as if -saying that those that were Jewish owned the Ontario government - there were no other religious symbols on the lawn...I complained - infact on this site - with in hours it was removed..as far as gay rights - HUMAN RIGHTS is the issue - the gays are getting spoiled -and if Smitherman possibley contests the mayorship of Toronto - and possibly wins - I will be excluded - I am tire of the gay in your face thing - what happened to so called equality?

[M.Dancer]

All I'm saying here is that if gays are normal then they should act normal.

They act as normal, or act as abnormal as anyone else...

What straight person would go to a straight pride parade naked and depict a sex act to promote heterosexuality?

Ever been to Berlin? They have the Love Parade. New Orleans? Mardi Gras.

The answers to your question would be legion.