capricorn Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Former B.C. premier Ujjal Dosanjh on Wednesday defended an ex-KGB agent seeking sanctuary in a Vancouver church to avoid deportation to Russia, saying he is “full of integrity.”“He’s in serious danger if he goes back,” said Dosanjh, who is supporting Mikhail Lennikov’s bid to remain in Canada with his wife and 17-year-old son. Dosanjh will meet with Lennikov on Thursday at the First Lutheran Church where the Russian has sought refuge, defying the deportation order supposed to be carried out Wednesday. Dosanjh, who is the riding’s Liberal MP, said the Conservative government has the discretionary power to allow Lennikov to stay in Canada but has chosen not to do so. http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Dosanjh+v...0113/story.html It's the usual crap whenever someone is to be deported. Harm will come to them if they are deported to their native countries. Why bother having a deportation process? Spies, murderers, child molesters and thieves find save haven in Canada. Churches are the preferred hangout of these undesirables. It used to be churches were a place of gathering and worship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I understand what the gov't is trying to do 'in principle' but I think it's a waste of time. The dude has raised a family here and worked here for 12 years now and he's clearly not part of the KGB anymore. Kicking him out now because he was a sneakster 12 years ago isn't going to do anything but separate a family. He's not doing anything wrong now and it's extremely unlikely that you're going to set an example that's going to deter future spies from operating in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) I understand what the gov't is trying to do 'in principle' but I think it's a waste of time. The dude has raised a family here and worked here for 12 years now and he's clearly not part of the KGB anymore. Kicking him out now because he was a sneakster 12 years ago isn't going to do anything but separate a family. He's not doing anything wrong now and it's extremely unlikely that you're going to set an example that's going to deter future spies from operating in Canada. So this person comes to canada and stays - despite any crimes he may have committed in the past? How canadian If I commit a serious crime in canada and then leave for another country and am discovered 12 years later - there is to be no repercussions - as I am now no longer a criminal? If I were then to use a foreign church for sanctuary the canadians would be howling foul play and demanding that government be sending me home. Moonbox - you need to think a bit more about things - but - I must admit - canadians are a strange bunch at the best of times As for Ujjal Dosanjh - he would do anything to get the vote - perhaps even sell his own children to the highest bidder. Borg Edited June 4, 2009 by Borg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I understand what the gov't is trying to do 'in principle' but I think it's a waste of time. The dude has raised a family here and worked here for 12 years now and he's clearly not part of the KGB anymore. Kicking him out now because he was a sneakster 12 years ago isn't going to do anything but separate a family. He's not doing anything wrong now and it's extremely unlikely that you're going to set an example that's going to deter future spies from operating in Canada. ... and the "principle" would be... what, exactly? apparently, the deportation order stands as he's deemed a "security risk" - say what? The same deportation order for Lennikov's wife & son was stayed for compassionate and humanitarian reasons..... apparently, Conservative Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan's compassion and humanitarian cupboard was empty when it came to allowing a functioning and contributing family to remain intact within Canada. interesting that some in this thread would equate persons working for CSIS as being criminals and equating them to, as stated, "murderers, child molesters and thieves". Or, alternatively, a CSIS "spy" is a "legal/good spy"... but being a described low-level functionary Japanese translating KGB "spy" is a "criminal/bad spy". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 This guy is pretty harmless. He's not been accused of spying against Canada in any way. He will certainly face severe punishment and probably death upon returning to Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted June 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Canada's long standing policy is not to grant residency to individuals who are spies or were former spies. Mikhail Lennikov clearly falls into this category. His conduct while in Canada does not alter the fact that he is considered an undesirable under our rules. Our courts concluded he would not be abused if returned to Russia. Lennikov quit the KGB and says he will be considered a traitor for doing so and perhaps tortured or killed if deported. If that was the case, he would have been eliminated prior to coming to Canada or prevented from leaving Russia in the first place. They fled Russia to escape retribution from the KGB, said Lennikov, because the state security organization considered him a traitor for resigning in 1988."Sending us back is unthinkable. They are basically killing us," --- The family was denied permanent residency in Canada by an immigration officer after Lennikov's background as a KGB officer was disclosed. Members or former members of an organization engaged in espionage or subversive activity against democratic governments or institutions are not eligible for permanent residency in Canada. According to documents filed with the Immigration and Refugee Board, Lennikov was recruited into the KGB in 1982 after leaving university and worked in the Japanese section, which was responsible for monitoring Japanese businessmen visiting the Soviet Union. --- He told the pre-removal risk assessment officer that he feared for his safety upon being returned to Russia and that his wife would face torture at the hands of the Russian security service FSB -- the KGB's replacement -- to provide information against him. His son would soon be inducted into the Russian army and would undergo brutal hazing because his father was a disgraced KGB officer, he said. However, a report by the pre-removal risk assessment officer found none of those conditions would apply once they returned home. http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun/news/w...44-0bb530458dac I'm not at all comfortable with the fact that he would be separated from his wife and child. In the end, it is the wife's decision whether she wants to stay by her husband's side and return with him to Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 So this person comes to canada and stays - despite any crimes he may have committed in the past? What he was doing was about as criminal as the lowliest of CSIS agents as far as we know. If I commit a serious crime in canada and then leave for another country and am discovered 12 years later - there is to be no repercussions - as I am now no longer a criminal? Again, what criminal activity was he a part of? He was on the wrong side of the Cold War. That's all. As for Ujjal Dosanjh - he would do anything to get the vote - perhaps even sell his own children to the highest bidder. I agree with that at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) What he was doing was about as criminal as the lowliest of CSIS agents as far as we know. Again, what criminal activity was he a part of? He was on the wrong side of the Cold War. That's all. I agree with that at least. We do not know for sure - but we do know that a nation that is also our northern neighbour wants him back - so we are going to stand in the way? Sorry cannot agree If someone from canada was in Russia and Canada wanted him back - and Russia refused - we would be crying foul. It is not a one way street. We do not know just who or what he is - but for sure he is/was a Russian citizen - that would likely also make him an illegal immigrant (stretching) - send him home. Send his wife and kid back as well - nothing stopping them from going if they want to - if they do not want to go - perhaps there is more to this than meets the public eye. Toss him. Glad we agree on the last point Borg Edited June 4, 2009 by Borg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) This guy is pretty harmless. He's not been accused of spying against Canada in any way. He will certainly face severe punishment and probably death upon returning to Russia. If the Russians had wanted him dead, he'd be dead already. He's exaggerating his claim. Edited June 4, 2009 by ToadBrother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 If the Russians had wanted him dead, he'd be dead already. He's exaggerating his claim. He could be jailed as a defector. It's unlikely that the current Russian government would resort to KGB style tactics and send a hit-squad to chase down a low-level agent 12 years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 ... and the "principle" would be... what, exactly? That if you lie when you come in then your entire admission is invalid and we can throw you out again, even if you manage to cover up your lies for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadBrother Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 He could be jailed as a defector. It's unlikely that the current Russian government would resort to KGB style tactics and send a hit-squad to chase down a low-level agent 12 years later. I agree. The Russians don't go after low level types, so all this nonsense about the threat of death is nothing more than hyperbole. I can appreciate that the guy doesn't want to go back. To be honest with you, if was choosing between Russia and Canada, I'd pick Canada every time. If he was low level KGB functionary, then he's not worth anyone's, including Russia's, time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YEGmann Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) This guy is pretty harmless. He's not been accused of spying against Canada in any way. He will certainly face severe punishment and probably death upon returning to Russia. Are you serious?! How do you know he was not sent by KGB? How do you know he will face punishment in Russia? Have you ever dealt with KGB? Have you ever been to Russia? Can you give any examples of "severe punishment" or "death" for former KGB operatives after collapse of the USSR? Let me tell you, the ideas you posted and shared by many are complete, 100% bullshit. There is a saying in Russia "there are no former KGB operatives", they never change. KGB never force anybody to join them. To work in KGB one MUST have a special mentality. Russian military officers never shake hands with KGB officers. It's a Soviet gestapo. The guy did a dirty job, spying for citizens. He had a rank of captain! It is an equivalent of a major in the army. It is not low-level. He did not disclose this during his immigration process. The guy is not telling truth right now, hoping all Canadians are as ignorant as you are. And his logics fails. If he has nothing to do with KGB, why he cannot return to Russia? If he has something to be affraid, Canada cannot keep him, because it is direct invitation for KGB successor to blackmail and re-engage him. But there is a good indicator of all his lies. If he had some unsettled issues with KGB, he would never obtain a Russian foreign passport to leave Russia in the first place. That is how the Russian passport system works. He is not a defector for sure. Edited June 5, 2009 by YEGmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 ... and the "principle" would be... what, exactly?That if you lie when you come in then your entire admission is invalid and we can throw you out again, even if you manage to cover up your lies for years. under the advice of an immigration lawyer, when applying for 'permanent status', Lennikov was completely forthcoming about his past KGB involvement... that's what set forth this whole long undertaking through the courts/immigration. Mikhail Lennikov: 10 common questions about deportation case In fact, everything the government knows about Lennikov's service it learned from him. He revealed it simultaneously with his application for permanent residence in March 1999, when he provided his official Soviet "work book" describing details and dates of his employment history with the KGB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Canada's long standing policy is not to grant residency to individuals who are spies or were former spies. the deportation is a Harper Conservative government decision... the courts have simply determined the deportation order is legal. Conservative Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan has the discretionary authority to allow Lennikov to stay... to keep a fully functioning and contributing family together, intact, within Canada. Conservative Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan has decided Lennikov is a security risk to Canada... such a security risk that he was allowed to stay within Canada these past 12 years... such a security risk that the Harper Conservative government can't/won't define that risk. Just another in the long list of shameful Harper Conservative decisions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 the deportation is a Harper Conservative government decision... the courts have simply determined the deportation order is legal. Conservative Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan has the discretionary authority to allow Lennikov to stay... to keep a fully functioning and contributing family together, intact, within Canada.Conservative Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan has decided Lennikov is a security risk to Canada... such a security risk that he was allowed to stay within Canada these past 12 years... such a security risk that the Harper Conservative government can't/won't define that risk. Just another in the long list of shameful Harper Conservative decisions! Waldo You need to think a bit old boy / girl hiding behind a male name He was here for 12 years - but now is here with a warrant of some type on his head from another nation. Send him home to face the charges After all it would be expected if the claims were reversed. Why has no one acknowledged that? While Harper and the gang are at it - perhaps we could send away the other 30-40,000 ordered deported Might clean up the country a bit. Borg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 the deportation is a Harper Conservative government decision... the courts have simply determined the deportation order is legal. Conservative Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan has the discretionary authority to allow Lennikov to stay... to keep a fully functioning and contributing family together, intact, within Canada.Conservative Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan has decided Lennikov is a security risk to Canada... such a security risk that he was allowed to stay within Canada these past 12 years... such a security risk that the Harper Conservative government can't/won't define that risk. Just another in the long list of shameful Harper Conservative decisions! I think this should be viewed as another or any other case would be. Provided the application to enter and remain in Canada was legal and binding then he should be allowed to stay. On the other hand if any lies were told, then he should be forced to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YEGmann Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 under the advice of an immigration lawyer, when applying for 'permanent status', Lennikov was completely forthcoming about his past KGB involvement... that's what set forth this whole long undertaking through the courts/immigration.Mikhail Lennikov: 10 common questions about deportation case In fact, everything the government knows about Lennikov's service it learned from him. He revealed it simultaneously with his application for permanent residence in March 1999, when he provided his official Soviet "work book" describing details and dates of his employment history with the KGB. So he admits that he did hide this important information when he applied and received his entry visa to Canada in 1997. And again, he joined KGB in 1982. He quit in 1988, if I am correct. With a rank of captain. He must be very good in his job. The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. Before that Lennikov had no problems with KGB. He moved to Canada in 1997, again without any problems. Why will he have problems in 2009 returning to Russia? He is definitely a lier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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