Build more jails for mothers, send their kids there in future

[bjre]

"It's undoubtedly the case that we're going to be building new prisons in the future," he said in an interview.

But that need has more to do with crumbling buildings and overall population growth than Conservative plans to lock up more people, he said.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/644515

They build jail for whom?

B.C. Corrections reports 75 per cent of women receive sentences less than 90 days for such crimes as theft, fraud and sex work - crimes usually born out of poverty.

http://www.thestar.com/news/globalvoices/article/616388

Jail a mother, condemn a child

Advocates urge alternatives to incarceration for women who commit small crimes — so their children don't follow in their footsteps

You jail them, will the poor condition change? Will problem be solved?

Why cannot the gov give the money to the employs to who hire lower income people so that they can have a job, gov pay some percentage, so that they will no longer too poor to crime?

The spend of jail for 1/4 year may as many as her one year's salary. When she consume, more others can be benefitted. Employer cost can be lowered after received some from gov, everything will be better than build more jails.

I don't know what is political right, does it just mean asking people pay more tax just for politicians to waste?

[Sir Bandelot]

The prison-industrial complex is the foundation of American capitalism. Today there are no slaves, but 20% of the population are ex-cons.

[segnosaur]

B.C. Corrections reports 75 per cent of women receive sentences less than 90 days for such crimes as theft, fraud and sex work - crimes usually born out of poverty.

http://www.thestar.com/news/globalvoices/article/616388

Jail a mother, condemn a child

Advocates urge alternatives to incarceration for women who commit small crimes — so their children don't follow in their footsteps

They build jail for whom?

You jail them, will the poor condition change? Will problem be solved?

Ok, here are the particular problems with that "article"....

First of all, why exactly are we labelling theft and fraud as "crimes of poverty"? We have extensive social programs in this country, including health benefits and welfare. And even in this depressed economy, there are still jobs around (even if they are minimum wage). Granted, you wouldn't live well, and a person may have to move to find improved living situations, but there is no reason someone would be forced to rob others to survive. Theft is an exercise in greed, a desire to improve one's wealth, and is wrong, whether it is a multi-millionaire executive defrauding investors, or some unemployed "welfare mom" shoplifting clothes at Wal-mart.

Secondly, why exactly are they assuming that its incarceration that would cause the kids to follow in a life of crime? If the crimes were caused by poverty (as was suggested), then unless the mother is a very successful criminal (not likely) she would still be in poverty, and even if the mother spent NO time in jail, the conditions leading to her crime would still have existed for the kids.

Lastly, why the focus on women prisoners? What about cases where a woman was found guilty of a crime but the father was not in jail? Why give the women a free pass when a man may not get one?

Why cannot the gov give the money to the employs to who hire lower income people so that they can have a job, gov pay some percentage, so that they will no longer too poor to crime?

The spend of jail for 1/4 year may as many as her one year's salary. When she consume, more others can be benefitted. Employer cost can be lowered after received some from gov, everything will be better than build more jails.

I don't know what is political right, does it just mean asking people pay more tax just for politicians to waste?

Because of your grammar, I'm not 100% sure what you're suggesting (not trying to be insulting; I just want to make sure I'm not misinterpreting anything). But, it sounds like you're suggesting taking money that would be used to incarcerate women prisioners and basically give it to the women to help them financially.

If so, I can see several problems with that:

- Not every dollar could be diverted that way. We would still need a prison system to handle women charged with more serious crimes. So while it may cost (lets say) $60,000 to incarcerate a prisoner, some of that is infrastructure. NOT having that person in prision will not save the $60,000... it will save only a fraction of that.

- In 2007, there were approximately 6-7000 female prisioners in custody. Lets say that the government saved $50000/prisioner by not building jails. However, not every woman in poverty is actually in jail. I've seen estimates that there are 2 million women below the poverty line in Canada. If we decided not to build jails and simply give the money to women to get them out of poverty, it would only give them between $150-200/year more than they currently have. Think that would be enough to turn someone from a criminal into a model citizen?

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2008...l/tbl10-eng.htm

Edited June 3, 2009 by segnosaur

[Oleg Bach]

NO! Build more jails for those that thrive off of the divorce industry and the child protection racket - the lawyers the judges (with no judgement) Jail the people who ruin families and drive the male heads of families into oblivion - leaving mothers and children vulnerable to parasites and predators...This all started 30 years ago - find the men and woman who invented these social policies and jail them!

[Sir Bandelot]

In 2007, there were approximately 6-7000 female prisioners in custody. Lets say that the government saved $50000/prisioner by not building jails. However, not every woman in poverty is actually in jail. I've seen estimates that there are 2 million women below the poverty line in Canada. If we decided not to build jails and simply give the money to women to get them out of poverty, it would only give them between $150-200/year more than they currently have. Think that would be enough to turn someone from a criminal into a model citizen?

You don't necessarily need to hand out money to every poor person, but you could use the money to run a program, that gives the poor a chance at making their own life happen. Education, employment or something like that which empowers the person to move on, without government support.

Give a person a fish, and they has a meal for one day. Teach a person to fish, and they can feed themselves for a lifetime.

Assuming, they like fish...

[M.Dancer]

Education, employment or something like that which empowers the person to move on, without government support.

you mean like schools? jobs?

show me where schooling has been denied to someone who wants it..

[Topaz]

For those of you whoever wondered about how much it cost to hold people within prison read the following..... http://www.prisonjustice.ca/politics/facts_stats.html

[M.Dancer]

It's outrageous how much the spend on comfort for prisoners. They actuallly heat the places in the winter and even allow prisoners TV and don't charge them for the electricity.

Prison terms should be short and painful. When a prisoner finishes his time he should be saying to himself,

"Woah, I am never going to put myself there again..."

[Sir Bandelot]

you mean like schools? jobs?

show me where schooling has been denied to someone who wants it..

I would like a PhD please

[Sir Bandelot]

It's outrageous how much the spend on comfort for prisoners. They actuallly heat the places in the winter and even allow prisoners TV and don't charge them for the electricity.

How would they pay? I guess most of them don't have jobs.

Should we charge them room and board too>

Prison terms should be short and painful. When a prisoner finishes his time he should be saying to himself,

"Woah, I am never going to put myself there again..."

Maybe they could just move them to New Brunswick

[segnosaur]

You don't necessarily need to hand out money to every poor person, but you could use the money to run a program, that gives the poor a chance at making their own life happen.

But the argument (at least by the original poster) was that we needed to increase the income of poor women to prevent them from engaging in theft/fraud. If you're arguing that we don't have to give money to ALL poor women, then you're basically supporting my argument... that theft isn't the result of poverty, but of greed (since some poor people won't engage in theft regardless of their income.)

Education...

Basic public education is totally free. For those wishing more advanced education, I suspect most provinces have government-sponsored student loan programs.

, employment...

Even in our bad economy, there are still jobs available (they may not be ideal jobs, and/or they may require a person to relocate, but it would still provide the opportunity to work.)

By the way, do you really think those poor people that are steeling are really doing so in order to fund their further education? There is no guarantee that any program aimed at helping only some poor people would affect those most likely to engage in crime.

[Sir Bandelot]

Education could also mean, you know, how not to be a moron. Or how to get off the dope, booze, or punching yourself out. But its much easier to incarcerate...

"Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"

Dancer: "Humbug, I say!!"

[M.Dancer]

How would they pay? I guess most of them don't have jobs.

Should we charge them room and board too>

They have relatives? They could pay. Otherwise no TV.

Should we charge them room and board? Yes.

[M.Dancer]

I would like a PhD please

You may want to complete your publicly funded High School first...

[bjre]

- In 2007, there were approximately 6-7000 female prisioners in custody. Lets say that the government saved $50000/prisioner by not building jails. However, not every woman in poverty is actually in jail. I've seen estimates that there are 2 million women below the poverty line in Canada. If we decided not to build jails and simply give the money to women to get them out of poverty, it would only give them between $150-200/year more than they currently have. Think that would be enough to turn someone from a criminal into a model citizen?

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2008...l/tbl10-eng.htm

$150-200/year is not enough for a family. However, as some others mentioned and the original article suggested, there are better methods than build more prisons. Although there is no guarantee to convert all criminals into model citizens, I believe the criminal rate can be significantly reduced though better education and effective support.