Canadians lack of warm heart, lack of intention of help others

[bjre]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/life/heal...s-43739532.html

Doctor's group says Canada needs national standards for emergency departments

REGINA - Canada's emergency room doctors say an incident where staff at a Saskatchewan hospital called an ambulance to help a man lying just outside their doors is not a surprise, but a sign of a bigger problem.

The Canadian Association of Emergency Physicians says it's concerned that there are no uniform rules on how emergency departments should work.

Canadians lack of warm heart, lack of intention of help others, no sprit to risk and do something good -- no moral.

Only cold rules and laws and intention of earn money and fear of lost job -- laws and rules punish people who break them to try to help others - there are always too many people try to use laws to earn money by make others suffer and pretend themselves as good citizens or lawyers - no moral again.

Canada need a better education system aimed to improve the quality of its people. So that they can think and they will have courage to ask for change and they will begin to do something to abolish the laws and rules that make Canada turn worse.

Edited April 30, 2009 by bjre

[Sir Bandelot]

It's the corporate system. Behold the fascia, fascismo, fascism. People are afraid to do anything outside of what they've been told by their rulers. Especially the puritanical, self-rightous zombies. I bet there's a lot of them in Saskatchewan

[Wild Bill]

It's the corporate system. Behold the fascia, fascismo, fascism. People are afraid to do anything outside of what they've been told by their rulers. Especially the puritanical, self-rightous zombies. I bet there's a lot of them in Saskatchewan

"First we kill the lawyers!"

It's not the corporate system. It's our public system! If you stop to help someone who has been in an accident you can't help but think of cases that have actually happened where the victim sued the person trying to help for not being qualified.

If someone steals your property and gets hurt while you chase them they can and do press charges against YOU! What's more, almost any daily paper has reports of where the thief or assailant gets off with far fewer charges than the victim.

A local school bus driver was tried and CONVICTED of molesting a little girl! What happened? A little girl was crying her eyes out and wasn't getting up to leave at her stop. The driver went back and tried to comfort her, giving her a hug. This was in broad daylight with a full busload of children. He walked her off the bus to her mother that was waiting at the stop.

Later, when the mother found out that he had hugged her little girl she decided to "make a federal case out of it" and brought charges!

Unfortunately, before it ever went to court he lost his job and his reputation. The judge threw the charges out but it didn't matter. The damage was done.

Now, if a child is crying no bus driver in my town will do anything. Who can blame them?

We have a society where Good Samaritans are looked on as villains or at the least, easy targets for a lawsuit.

Perhaps you can explain how I've missed some corporate connection.

[Sir Bandelot]

Unfortunately, before it ever went to court he lost his job and his reputation. The judge threw the charges out but it didn't matter. The damage was done.

Perhaps you can explain how I've missed some corporate connection.

Right there. He lost his job, before it even went to court. Guilty by innuendo. And I say, those hospital employees were thinking exactly the same thing.

Now you explain to me how you've missed it

[M.Dancer]

10 to 1 it has something to do with Union guidlines as to what is expected from job performance.

[Sir Bandelot]

10 to 1 it has something to do with Union guidlines as to what is expected from job performance.

10 to 1 you have never worked for a union, or have a job at all.

[Smallc]

"First we kill the lawyers!"

It's not the corporate system. It's our public system!

That hospital is probably private not for profit, just like any other. What happened is also inexcusable though, and I would hope that it wouldn't happen here. Mistakes are made in every setting, but that is more than a mistake.

[M.Dancer]

10 to 1 you have never worked for a union, or have a job at all.

Been a teamster twice, and I have been with the same firm for 17 years.

Congrats on being 100% wrong on all accounts.

[bjre]

That hospital is probably private not for profit, just like any other. What happened is also inexcusable though, and I would hope that it wouldn't happen here. Mistakes are made in every setting, but that is more than a mistake.

I guess the nurse call 911 is try to help him.

I have heard the standard waiting time for walk in emergency is 8-10 hours.

If come by ambulance, the waiting time can be 1 hour.

The doctors will not do anything until after 1 hour, otherwise, maybe some union will make trouble to the doctor because doctors and hospitals will be weak for asking more money from tax payers.

Once, I went to hospital in 8pm for my 1 year old daughter, I wait till 5 in the morning when a doctor see my daughter for 5 minutes. During all night, there are just those few people waiting there include another about 1 year old kid crying all night long.

Hospital and doctor and the system does not regard cure patients as their honor, they just look for more money. They just like programmed robot money earning machines to ask government for money. And the government just protect their interest by laws to prevent immigrant from getting a doctor's job easily. And they are trying to make more laws to criminalize people who make efforts to cure their own kids with natural things that has medical functions.

All for money, no human right.

[Smallc]

I guess the nurse call 911 is try to help him.

I have heard the standard waiting time for walk in emergency is 8-10 hours.

If come by ambulance, the waiting time can be 1 hour.

What happened in Saskatchewan was wrong and it shouldn't have happened. I doubt it will happen again.

As for wait times, there is no such thing as standard. It add depends on the time of day, the number of people in the waiting room, the number of doctors there, the severity of cases that came in before you, etc. I went one day and waited an hour. Another time, I got in immediately (twice actually). There is no standard waiting time.

[bjre]

What happened in Saskatchewan was wrong and it shouldn't have happened. I doubt it will happen again.

Did you read the news following the previous link ?

Did you noticed there is the following content:

He said staff calling ambulances to collect patients right outside hospitals happens across the country.

He pointed to a case in White Rock, B.C. in 2004. In that situation, a man brought his 22-year-old niece to the Peace Arch Hospital because she wasn't breathing. He left her in the car and went inside to get help, but claimed staff instead phoned 911. The woman ended up dying and the family blamed the hospital's response time. But The Fraser Health Authority said a nurse went to help and staff reacted appropriately.

[Smallc]

He said so did he.....well then it must be true. I doubt that doctors and nurses everywhere are ignoring people in need...and I'm not sure what good it would do to call an ambulance that's only going to bring the patient to the closest hospital.

[bjre]

As for wait times, there is no such thing as standard. It add depends on the time of day, the number of people in the waiting room, the number of doctors there, the severity of cases that came in before you, etc. I went one day and waited an hour. Another time, I got in immediately (twice actually). There is no standard waiting time.

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/02/19/wait-times.html

Ontario to set 8-hour target for time spent in emergency rooms

Ontario is aiming to be the first province in Canada to cut down on the amount of time patients spend in the emergency room by setting targets for hospitals across the province.

Health Minister David Caplan on Thursday unveiled the plan, which sets a cap of eight hours for patients with complex conditions and four hours for those with minor problems.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/20...ercrowding.html

Quebec's emergency rooms are bursting at the seams, especially in Montreal and the Outaouais, despite some $60 million spent last year by the Liberal government to relieve pressure on hospitals' front lines, according to an annual report on health care.

For the second year in a row, Montreal newspaper La Presse rated admission times at Quebec hospitals and found the average time to be admitted to hospital through an emergency room is 16 hours and 18 minutes, about 30 minutes longer than two years ago.

The average exceeds Quebec's target wait time of 12 hours, established by Jean Charest's Liberal government in its last mandate.

....

Among regional hospitals, the Gatineau hospital finished last with an average wait time of 22 hours and 42 minutes, while the Hull hospital came in second-last with an average wait of 17 hours and 36 minutes. At those hospitals, 12 and 7.7 per cent of patients had emergency ward stays of more than 48 hours before being discharged or admitted to other wards, compared to a provincial average of 6 per cent.

[Smallc]

Those Quebec waits are quite long. That does not however contradict anything that I said. There is no standard wait. They may be trying to establish standards, but there is no standard wait. Waits in emergency rooms everywhere can range from long to short. Its also important to note that Quebec has been taking steps to improve their system...through both private not for profit and private for profit care. As long as everyone has access, that's just fine with me.

[Hydraboss]

I have to comment on this one. My wife is a nurse in an Emergency Unit and I've asked her about this kind of thing on numerous occasions.

First, let me say this: bjre - learn to speak English. If you're going to type a comment, it would be nice if the rest of us could at least understand it.

Now....they haven't exactly given the details for this specific case, but... (My comments only apply to Alberta. I'm not familiar with other jurisdictions.)

When you show up to emerg, you are required to enter the building on your own/with the help of whoever drove you there. If you are unable to make it inside, the staff MUST call paramedics to transport you inside. Doctors and nurses working inside emergency are not always equipped to stabilize and transport someone who may or may not have spinal injury/neck injury/etc. That's what EMS does....emergency medical services.

That being said, if the situation is critical and they are TOLD that it is likely critical, there is absolutely no law or regulation preventing staff from doing what they have to wherever they have to. Part of medical training for all doctors and nurses is the doctrine of LIFE OVER LIMB. It means that there can be no prosecution in any respect (with the exception of gross negligence) for any negative effect from providing life-saving medical care. Ie. EMS drags you out of a burning car to safe you from burning to death, and you end up paralyzed from the neck down because they didn't have enough time to immobilize you on a back-board before the car burns up. There would be no remedy through the courts for you to sue the EMS workers. Now if you collapse, but are conscious outside an emergency room (on the road or sidewalk), the nurses/doctors can come out to ensure you are not in a life-threatening situation but cannot move you inside the hospital unless you are. EMS would arrive, immobilize you (if necessary) and once inside the hospital you would be cared for.

[Smallc]

That makes a great deal of sense. Thank you for the information.

[Sir Bandelot]

Been a teamster twice, and I have been with the same firm for 17 years.

If you actually worked in a union you would know they do not make guidelines for expectation of performance. Most certainly not in the context of what happened to the bus driver. Those are decisions made by HR.

And based on the large number of posts you make throughout the day (every one of them a gem) I truly doubt you have a job.

[Sir Bandelot]

That hospital is probably private not for profit, just like any other.

All hospitals are governed by a board of directors, and registered as corporate entities. That is the business model, whether publicly funded or not.

[Smallc]

All hospitals are governed by a board of directors, and registered as corporate entities. That is the business model, whether publicly funded or not.

That's correct. As far as I know, government owns nothing....they simply fund part of it.

[Sir Bandelot]

Correct, the government only funds clinical operations and some capital. Never enough money for capital of course, but then if there was more money the overpaid momma's boys who run the place would have a field day.

[Smallc]

Never enough money for capital of course, but then if there was more money the overpaid momma's boys who run the place would have a field day.

Also, it's really the job of the hospitals to fill in the gaps through their charitable foundations. I know that when things are done here, the government rarely funds the entire project, and instead they leave about 25% to be raised through charitable donations.

[Molly]

First, let me say this: bjre - learn to speak English. If you're going to type a comment, it would be nice if the rest of us could at least understand it.

Quit being a jerk. If perfect English was a requirement here, none of us would last a day.

[Argus]

10 to 1 it has something to do with Union guidlines as to what is expected from job performance.

I doubt it. This sounds more like POLICY. Policies are put in place by bureacrats who are terrified at the prospect of having to make a decision - on anything. Where I work, policies govern absolutely everything. We have tons of senior managers earning $150-200k a year who, when it comes time to make any decisions, immediately calls in some junior bureaucrat from HR or Finance or Legal to tell him what he should decide. I have no doubt this policy was put in place due to legal concerns to absolve all management of having to make any decisions on how far away or how easily a person outside should be before they send someone after them. What if they're across the street? What if they're up the block? Decisions!? Ack! Protect me from decisions! Give me a policy!

[Oleg Bach]

I doubt it. This sounds more like POLICY. Policies are put in place by bureacrats who are terrified at the prospect of having to make a decision - on anything. Where I work, policies govern absolutely everything. We have tons of senior managers earning $150-200k a year who, when it comes time to make any decisions, immediately calls in some junior bureaucrat from HR or Finance or Legal to tell him what he should decide. I have no doubt this policy was put in place due to legal concerns to absolve all management of having to make any decisions on how far away or how easily a person outside should be before they send someone after them. What if they're across the street? What if they're up the block? Decisions!? Ack! Protect me from decisions! Give me a policy!

You have the right! Bureaucrats and even judges alike all function on policy..It's easy and no one has to actually make a judgement call. Real leadership much like real manhood and womanhood are frowned upon these days. Canadians in general are begining to harden up as the population increases - we are getting a little like New York City a few decades ago..with more people there are more bad and crazy folks out there...as we tend to dodge around what is percieved as trouble. Litigatation is begining to Americanize it self also --- and someone should put a stop to the attitude that it is better to have a heart attack victim die on the Hospital steps than drag the poor guy in as quickly as possible...seems we are forming traditions that will in the future be killing us.