Tamils blocking our hospitals!

Oleg Bach · May 12, 2009

They would probably have more influence back in Sri Lanka. I would certainly be willing to foot the bill for every single Tamil to go back to Sri Lanka and express their views and concerns there.

First- The idiots should get rid of the frinking flag with the tiger on it. Secondly our government should stop basing what is terrorism on economic factors...seems that our corporate leaders stamp the mark of terror on the forehead of anyone remotely able to negatively effect their bottom line. OR anyone they suspect might lean in that direction.

In the over view these emerging domestic problems are the side effects of ill concieved multi-culturalism - we bring them in and they bring their problems and feuds with them...now what do we do? Did we expect these people to leave behind their traditions - their religion - their extended family members - their culture and feuds? All the clever social engineering from the public school level up to the political table is of no avail. Look at the some of our second generational immigrants - their children are killing their children..and in time we will have a drop in the quaility of life....it's a matter of time - Our immigration policy came from on high - and it's economically based - we wanted cheap labour - and now we have cheapend the very fabric of orignial Canadian culture...great - just frinking great - now who's gonna fix it?

Wild Bill · May 12, 2009

To be fair, Caledonia set the precedent.

You know, I think you may be more correct than perhaps you had thought!

Consider the parallels. Both protests involved large groups that have already shown a willingness to use violence. When Caledonia broke the pictures from Oka were still fresh in our minds. Who could forget "Lasagna" with a bandanna, a feather and an AK-47 standing face to face with a Canadian soldier?

As for the Tamils, they invented the suicide explosive vest! The terrorism in Sri Lanka is world-known.

It's all very well to say that our police should enforce the rule of law, equally on one and all but in practice, they simply don't have the firepower! The OPP or the Toronto police have nowhere near the resources to enforce the law in these situations.

We can't call in the army. BOTH our soldiers have been sent to Afghanistan! Sending our canteen boat up the St. Laurence wouldn't be much help either. A Sea King would likely crash before it got there.

No, it doesn't matter if our police forces have the stomach for it or not. They just are out-gunned! If we had an escalated native protest or if the Tamils started practicing the sort of civil terrorism they have done in their home country it would make this situation obvious, which would politically be very, very damning.

That would also account for why they practice a two-tier sort of enforcement in Caledonia. You can lock up a few angry white folks without it being likely they'd break out guns, registered or not. The same cannot be said for aboriginal protesters, after Oka.

For that matter, does anyone know if the Liberal gun registry was ever enforced or applied to native reserves?

This scenario makes more sense to me. The police are not just being directed by "white-ass liberals" like David Miller.

They are simply impotent to handle groups like these!

Muddy · May 13, 2009

A lot of what you say is very wise Wild Bill. We have allowed anarchy to win by both the natives and Tamils. How long before Tamils want a piece of Canada to call their own? Are we able or willing to put up a resistance that would mean killing of terrorists thugs in a war scenario as is happening in the former Ceylon? I know that sounds far fetched but these Tamils have proven that our politicians do not have the guts to inforce the law.

g_bambino · May 13, 2009

These Tamils have proven that our politicians do not have the guts to inforce the law.

It is not the job of a politician to enforce the law; when it becomes such is when anarchy generally sets in, as the enforcement of the law becomes a tool for a politician to maintain power. While our politicians certainly showed a noticable amount of cowardice in running and hiding while these incidents continue (both Caledonia and the Toronto Tamils), the responsibility for the lawlessness falls squarely on the police, who's job it is to enforce the Queen's laws.

Wild Bill · May 13, 2009

It is not the job of a politician to enforce the law; when it becomes such is when anarchy generally sets in, as the enforcement of the law becomes a tool for a politician to maintain power. While our politicians certainly showed a noticable amount of cowardice in running and hiding while these incidents continue (both Caledonia and the Toronto Tamils), the responsibility for the lawlessness falls squarely on the police, who's job it is to enforce the Queen's laws.

It's all very well for a Blair or a Fantino to claim that no politician is yanking their strings but after all, who hires or fires them?

Muddy · May 13, 2009

When anarchy threatens our peaceful kingdom it is the duty of our elected politicians to send in a police or military force to suppress the insurrection.

When these adults bring their children into what can become a volatile situation ,bus` should be brought in with Childrens Aid and take away the kids and sort out who belongs to who later for the childrens protection. Then fix bayonets and move the anarchists off the streets.

g_bambino · May 13, 2009

It's all very well for a Blair or a Fantino to claim that no politician is yanking their strings but after all, who hires or fires them?

I suppose that when you get down to it, it is the politicians who influence the choice of police commissioners. But politicians should still not control the enforcement of the law once the commissioner is installed; should the latter be dismissed by, or on the advice of, politicians, for no other reason than carrying out the law as prescribed, then surely he or she could sue for wrongful dismissal, like any other employee. The Supreme Court has already ruled that employees of the Crown are no different to any other in the private sector.

Wild Bill · May 13, 2009

I suppose that when you get down to it, it is the politicians who influence the choice of police commissioners. But politicians should still not control the enforcement of the law once the commissioner is installed; should the latter be dismissed by, or on the advice of, politicians, for no other reason than carrying out the law as prescribed, then surely he or she could sue for wrongful dismissal, like any other employee. The Supreme Court has already ruled that employees of the Crown are no different to any other in the private sector.

Well, if he did sue for wrongful dismissal it's a lead pipe cinch he'd never get another such job again!

This is the difference between the official line and the real world. The utopian situation that you describe is the official cant to please the plebs like you, me and everybody else. In reality the political situation is quite different but it was deliberately set up that way.

Thus it always was and thus it will always be.

A variation of this paradigm is how politicians are always so quick to pass laws, such as gun registries or whatever. They know full well that a law by itself is worthless. You need more police to enforce it and a justice system to try, convict and incarcerate offenders. This costs money and they rarely actually allocate any.

However, the average citizen sees in his morning paper that a new law has been passed and he thinks "Good show! They're doing something at last!" He never actually "looks behind the curtain" to see if anything was really changed.

Thus the old joke "It doesn't have to work, it's enough to say we've got one!"

g_bambino · May 13, 2009

Well, if he did sue for wrongful dismissal it's a lead pipe cinch he'd never get another such job again!

If it is indeed the case that police leaders all acquiesce to extortionist threats from political leaders, it would seem then that cowardice is more institutionalised in our police forces than I thought. But, if politicians then ultimately dictate the actions of the police, votes will be the primary influence in decisions made. The responsibility then falls on us - Ontario and Toronto residents - to force the hand of the politicians who force the hand of the police. I've been reading a lot of pissed off letters to the editor and online commentary from Torontonians, but Canadians have a real penchant for much bitching but little doing...

Wild Bill · May 13, 2009

If it is indeed the case that police leaders all acquiesce to extortionist threats from political leaders, it would seem then that cowardice is more institutionalised in our police forces than I thought. But, if politicians then ultimately dictate the actions of the police, votes will be the primary influence in decisions made. The responsibility then falls on us - Ontario and Toronto residents - to force the hand of the politicians who force the hand of the police. I've been reading a lot of pissed off letters to the editor and online commentary from Torontonians, but Canadians have a real penchant for much bitching but little doing...

Exactly! We're rather a naive people, for the most part. Americans are much more naturally suspicious of their political leaders. They elect virtually every political position down not just to the local sheriff or police chief but often even the dog catcher! Many Canadians sneer at them for doing this but I see it as a strength. It forces governments at all levels to be conscious of the will of the people, perhaps even beyond the letter of the law.

In the Great White North we seem to have a child-like faith that our laws, Charter of Rights and overall system is somehow perfect, handed down on high from Pierre Trudeau or whatever. So we see no need for such populist input. Worse yet, we somehow distrust the will of the people and look at these institutions as necessary barriers to the people expressing their will. We believe that an unelected Supreme Court judge should have more legal power than an elected politician.

Obviously, that can only work if the system itself is "perfect". Those of us old enough to have lived through the times of the patriation of our Constitution and the enactment of the Charter of Rights saw clearly that these were documents written by politicians and not some supreme deity. They made deals among themselves to get the necessary agreement to have these documents enacted. The right to property is one conspicuous example. It was deliberately left out to get the NDP folks onside.

Worse yet for Canada, we have no amending formula that could ever work in the real world. It requires such a high level of agreement among the provinces and those offices involved that for practical purposes it can never happen. Other countries, such as America, were wise enough to allow for change over the years. That's how they came up with so many amendments to make things more fair and just. Our documents are cast in stone. The way they were written is the way they shall remain, forever and ever, amen!

We did come up with the "not withstanding" Clause. This was supposed to be the last defense in any dispute between the will of the people and a badly conceived or written law. However, except for the separatists in Quebec, no politician in the rest of Canada has ever had the courage to use it! Unpopular laws are referred to the Supreme Court. Again, the unelected judges decide if the law should stand. Since their role is not to make law but rather to interpret it, they will only strike down a law if it is unconstitutional. If it IS constitutional the law stands, no matter what the majority of Canadians may think of it.

For most of us the deficiencies of our system never touch us personally so we can live in a sort of fantasy world where everything is fair and "just ducky". If someone is unfortunate to get caught up in some unfair legal problem we tend not to believe they have a case! We tell ourselves "They must have done something. There must be more to the story. They probably deserve it anyway!"

According to the "system", we all should have a right to get to a hospital for treatment without having our way blocked by protesters. As we saw, people who needed chemo and/or had heart conditions or whatever WERE blocked by protesters and the police did nothing! Why? Because in the real world the police were afraid of the protesters. They knew there was a very real risk that the Tamils might escalate into heavy violence. The police do not have the power to stand up to protests at that level.

The police aren't cowards, they're realists! If violence breaks out they know that the official response will NOT be the politicians saying "Good show, guys! You're enforcing law and order!" Rather, they will get blamed for provoking the protesters! Any injuries to the protesters will be deemed the fault of the police.

Our system has slid into this rut over the last 50 years or so. As long as most folks have a culture of being law abiding it has worked fairly well. Transgressors have tended to crop up as individuals or at most small groups, well within the resources of our police forces. The difference now is that we have natives who have been willing to mount armed protests in large numbers, as at Oka. We now have Tamils who have come to this country and now are willing to block major highways BY THE THOUSANDS to try to force our governments to take their side on the world stage!

There's just no way our police can handle that! True, they also have guns but they would be castigated for using them! That leaves billy clubs and water cannon. They would be blamed for using them as well!

Meanwhile, these protesters are not stupid! They have seen that their tactics WORK! This means that they can just keep challenging authority without fear of reprisals. McGuinty was hoping that native protests would end at Caledonia. Mayor Miller is likely hoping that the Tamils will stop and go away.

Maybe they will. I just wouldn't bet any money of my own on it.

g_bambino · May 13, 2009

We're rather a naive people, for the most part. Americans are much more naturally suspicious of their political leaders. They elect virtually every political position down not just to the local sheriff or police chief but often even the dog catcher! Many Canadians sneer at them for doing this but I see it as a strength. It forces governments at all levels to be conscious of the will of the people, perhaps even beyond the letter of the law.

Oh, dear god, no! Elections, elections, and more elections are certainly not the answer; the chances of resulting infighting over who has more of a mandate from the populace than who are too great to risk that approach.

No, we needn't turn judges and police chiefs into politicians, we merely need to hold our actual politicians more to account. As it is, I'm not sure that we're too trusting of our elected representatives; rather, in typical Canadian fashion, we're just too damn tolerant and don't want to be perceived as being selfish or pushy. We'll grumble at the inconvenience and the inaction, but still feel the impact of guilt over forcing someone to do something against their will, meaning that the limit of our collective patience is quite wide. The thing is that bullying mobs and self-serving lawlessness are antithetical to the very peace, order, and good government mentality that still permeates our culture and actually leads us to be more diplomatic than draconian when dealing with bullying mobs and self-serving lawlessness. I imagine, though, that we must have a limit somewhere...

Chuck U. Farlie · May 13, 2009

As if it is not bad enough, now the NDP is advocating for these protesters to continue with their illegal actions:

From: http://www.thestar.com/article/633549

Two NDP MPPs addressed the demonstrators earlier in the afternoon. Michael Prue, NDP MPP for Beaches-East York told the protesters he was touched by their determination to have their message heard. "Your friends and family are facing imminent death," Prue said. "You are standing up for democracy. You are standing up for freedom. You are standing up for the people who need a champion. You are all my heroes."
Paul Miller, NDP MPP for Hamilton East —Stoney Creek echoed his sentiments. "You are a strong-willed people and you are not going to standby watching your brothers and sisters as grandmothers and fathers suffer. The atrocities being committed are totally inhumane."

Miller said the government and the UN have the strength and the ability to stop the atrocities. "Don't give up your fight. You are getting a lot of attention. Keep it up, you will get answers and you will get help."

I just sent off a letter to both of those MPPs and CC'd Oakley from AM640 basically blasting them for advocating lawlessness. I told both of them that it is grossly irresponsible for an elected representative to advocate assaulting police officers and storming a highway, and I said I hope the media rapes these guys for the statements they made.

If anyone else cares to share their views:

[email protected]

Edited May 13, 2009 by Chuck U. Farlie

Oleg Bach · May 13, 2009

No one cared when the Palistinian civilians were being physically dismanteled..why should we care about Tamils...and if we did do something to get the Tigers to drop their weapons and end the civil war - well - the same thing will happen - what is going to happen - when western forces leave Iraq and Afghanistan - there will be endless retribution killings...deserved and undeserved - Do we really think that these people will spare the vanquished? Not likely! If Israel could have gotten away with killing every last Palistinian they might have - The opposing forces will genocide what is left of the Tamils - One side wants the other side gone - we in the west don't understand that - this is an old fashined blood feud and it is to the death.

Oleg Bach · May 13, 2009

No one cared when the Palistinian civilians were being physically dismanteled..why should we care about Tamils...and if we did do something to get the Tigers to drop their weapons and end the civil war - well - the same thing will happen - what is going to happen - when western forces leave Iraq and Afghanistan - there will be endless retribution killings...deserved and undeserved -

Do we really think that these people will spare the vanquished? Not likely! If Israel could have gotten away with killing every last Palistinian they might have - The opposing forces will genocide what is left of the Tamils - One side wants the other side gone - we in the west don't understand that - this is an old fashined blood feud and it is to the death.

Some call on the UN for help - they are famous for solving a problem by allowing those in conflict to kill each other - much like the strategy here in Toronto when it comes to gun violence - You release a gun man from custody so he can kill more like himself...or so it appears to me.

capricorn · May 14, 2009

The NDP, fanning the flames of civil disobedience.

Two NDP MPPs addressed the demonstrators earlier in the afternoon. Michael Prue, NDP MPP for Beaches-East York told the protesters he was touched by their determination to have their message heard. "Your friends and family are facing imminent death," Prue said. "You are standing up for democracy. You are standing up for freedom. You are standing up for the people who need a champion. You are all my heroes."
Paul Miller, NDP MPP for Hamilton East —Stoney Creek echoed his sentiments. "You are a strong-willed people and you are not going to standby watching your brothers and sisters as grandmothers and fathers suffer. The atrocities being committed are totally inhumane."

Miller said the government and the UN have the strength and the ability to stop the atrocities. "Don't give up your fight. You are getting a lot of attention. Keep it up, you will get answers and you will get help."

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/633549

The Premier of Ontario acting as apologist for Tamils committing civil disobedience.

This morning McGuinty urged sympathy for Tamil protesters, citing the "murder" of innocents in Sri Lanka, but he also emphasized the need to protest lawfully and only on the front lawn of Queen's Park.
"I can understand why folks, on the face of it, are unhappy with the inconvenience created by the Canadians of Tamil descent who are protesting," McGuinty told reporters this morning.

But McGuinty, whose daughter volunteered in Sri Lanka for nearly a year, says he has sympathy for the plight of the people in northern Sri Lanka.

"What is unfolding in northern Sri Lanka is a bloodbath. In recent days, over 1,000 civilians have been murdered, including 100 children," he said.

McGuinty said he understands people are frustrated by having their lives disrupted by protesting Tamils, but added that there are greater issues at play than traffic disruptions.

"What is our shared responsibility as privileged global citizens in the face of what the UN has described as a bloodbath?" McGuinty asked. He repeated his call for journalists and international aid workers to be allowed into the northern end of the country where the conflict is occurring.

"I think we owe more to the international community than simply to decry the inconvenience and broken laws here," he said.

Sickening!

May 14, 2009

Micheal Prue is an idiot. He has been quoted in Hansards as being upset that Canadians try to bring in an extra bottle of liquor when returning from the USA. Seems he has no worries about Tamil terrorists protesting and whining about conditions in their homeland. Instead of these people demanding that Canada solve their problems, why don't they go back home and work for a peaceful solution to their dilemma?

M.Dancer · May 14, 2009

I for one will be boycotting the Tigers the next time they're at the Cabledome to play the Jays....

Muddy · May 14, 2009

Politicians may just be jumping the gun blaming all these reported deaths on government forces. It just may be that the Tamils are deliberately putting civilians in harms way as they have been known to do. Meanwhile they should stop their anarchy in this country. Protest as is their right. But once they step over the line they should be arrested and their children put into Childrens Aid.

g_bambino · May 14, 2009

Politicians may just be jumping the gun blaming all these reported deaths on government forces. It just may be that the Tamils are deliberately putting civilians in harms way as they have been known to do.

Margaret Wente had essentially the same thing to say in The Globe and Mail today. I can see this morphing with increasing speed into another exercise in PC PR, rather than into a rational and tough, but fair, resolution.

I read that they shut down Yonge Street last night. How long 'till violence errupts à la Caledonia?

_{[ed. to add]}

Edited May 14, 2009 by g_bambino

capricorn · May 14, 2009

As protesters rallied at Queen's Park, the Tamils' plight dominated the weekly Liberal caucus meeting, with MPPs urging Premier Dalton McGuinty to support a politically loyal community.
Behind closed doors Tuesday, MPP after MPP reminded the premier that the 200,000-strong Tamil community has long backed the Liberals, voting en masse and volunteering in campaigns.

"If we're not careful, there are at least five ridings we could lose if the Tamils go over to the NDP. ... They work very hard for us," warned one MPP.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/634116

I listened to McGuinty's address on the Tamil protests this afternoon before the Legislature. He was gushing with concern over the bloodbath occurring in Sri Lanka. He stressed that Canadian Tamils are part of the Ontario family. I think he meant to say that Canadian Tamils are part of the Liberal family. He will do all he can to make sure it stays that way even if it means that his government places the protesters above the law.

Following McGuinty's impassioned plea for the federal government to do more about the violence in Sri Lanka, Bob Runciman then drew attention to the above Toronto Star editorial which reflects the hypocrisy of McGuinty and his bunch. Runciman's timing was perfect. McGuinty then turned noticeably very pale.

Muddy · May 14, 2009

MCGUINTY ,We have the responsibility to allow people to express themselves and to dissent in a lawful way."

Your right Premier they do have the right,UNTIL they broke the law,thats when you should have stopped counting votes and represented the rights of the majority of citizens over these anarchists.

wulf42 · May 14, 2009

Unfortunately Canada within 10 years will cease to exist as a functioning Country we will be no better than Pakistan or Afghanistan, immigration is detroying our country right in front of us but yet Canadians are too passive to bother with it.....years of Liberalism saw to that, it was and is politically incorrect to say ANYTHING bad about minorities even though they are destroying our society from the inside out!

tango · May 14, 2009

Margaret Wente had essentially the same thing to say in The Globe and Mail today. I can see this morphing with increasing speed into another exercise in PC PR, rather than into a rational and tough, but fair, resolution.
I read that they shut down Yonge Street last night. How long 'till violence errupts à la Caledonia?

_{[ed. to add]}

Wente, Adler and their corporate-social climbing compadres do not speak for all Canadians as they presume to, and especially not for the people who live in downtown Toronto. Downtowners are very accepting of such disruption. Yonge St and College are closed or delayed for protests about once a week, and everyone stops to look and see what the issue is, and claps or waves at the protesters. Nobody ever claps for the daily invasion of 905 SUV's !

I'll bet the people complaining about disruption are corporate types from the 905, living their high blood pressure lifestyle and blaming the world for their angst, which actually comes from unfulfilled greed.

leave your friggen car at the station, and take the subway, whiners!!

The rest of the time we have to put up with your pollution spewing commuter traffic in a city where that isn't really necessary. Protesters in the streets are a welcome clean air alternative to 905 SUV's !! :lol:

M.Dancer · May 15, 2009

Wente, Adler and their corporate-social climbing compadres do not speak for all Canadians as they presume to, and especially not for the people who live in downtown Toronto. Downtowners are very accepting of such disruption.

Bullshit

One thing to block traffic, quite another when we go to the pub and the kitchen is backed up cause Kumar and Shiva are skiving the day waving terrorist flags.

I say just have a nce big van turn up at the demo, with painted letter on the side...

"Immigration Violations Enfprcement"

The protests will break up peacefully.

Muddy · May 15, 2009

Wente, Adler and their corporate-social climbing compadres do not speak for all Canadians as they presume to, and especially not for the people who live in downtown Toronto. Downtowners are very accepting of such disruption. Yonge St and College are closed or delayed for protests about once a week, and everyone stops to look and see what the issue is, and claps or waves at the protesters. Nobody ever claps for the daily invasion of 905 SUV's !

I'll bet the people complaining about disruption are corporate types from the 905, living their high blood pressure lifestyle and blaming the world for their angst, which actually comes from unfulfilled greed.

leave your friggen car at the station, and take the subway, whiners!!

The rest of the time we have to put up with your pollution spewing commuter traffic in a city where that isn't really necessary. Protesters in the streets are a welcome clean air alternative to 905 SUV's !!

[/quote

Tango. This corporate guy from outside Toronto just wants to be able to get his Grandson into sick kids when needed. He has had eight operations in Sick kids and he is but eight years old. Do you have any idea the stress we all go through and then find ourselves blocked from the hospital by people breaking the law ? Do you not have empathy for all those stressed people trying to get through for therapy at Princess Margaret with death lurking on their shoulders? All Ontarions pay for these public institutions and those breaking our laws should not be tolerated just because they are a mob and votes.The law should always be applied evenly to all. If I stopped traffic on University Ave do you think Toronto`s finest would tolerate me for more than thirty seconds?