How Sri Lanka's Military Sees the Liberal Party of Canada

jdobbin · April 9, 2009

Dobbin, do "Canadians" exist?

You have made this argument before and not convincingly.

IOW, for Liberals, are "Canadians" and "foreigners" the same. For Liberals, are we all "humans'?

I know some Tories seem to categorize things as "us" versus "them." Makes many immigrants know exactly what a few in the party really think about them.

---

IOW, do Liberals pretend to be naive NDP when seeking votes and then revert to being pragmatists when they obtain power? I suspect that in this modern Internet world, the federal Liberal Party schtick won't work.

I suspect that in the modern Internet world, people in Canada will wonder why the Harper government is so out of step on a lot of issues.

I'll go further. The Internet questions not only the federal Liberal Party, but also modern government.

I'll go further: The Internet is not a person or a government.

normanchateau · April 10, 2009

Liberals have no principles whatsoever now, except the single principle of power. They will say anything, do anything to get power. And when they get power, they will do anything to keep it.

Stephen Harper a Liberal?

normanchateau · April 10, 2009

The federal Liberal Party has chosen a leader (Ignatieff) who will agree with any foreigner who has a reasonable argument.

Like Stephen Harper, you really don't have a clue, do you?

If you want to know exactly where Michael Ignatieff stands on the issue of the Tamil Tigers, read his 2006 book Lesser Evil where he makes his revulsion of the terrorist Tamil Tigers clear and suggests how Sri Lanka should deal with them.

If you have evidence that Ignatieff's position on the Tamil Tigers has changed, let's hear it.

And please don't use the Holocaust at Treblinka in a futile effort to score political points.

Argus · April 10, 2009

It doesn't?
I've asked what is new in why the Liberals are in the gunsights of the Sri Lankan military and the only thing I have seen in the ceasefire which quite a few nations support. The Tories do not support it so you can imagine that Sri Lankan military approves the Conservatives.

Well it might have something to do with this:

Typical hypocrisy, lack of concern for supporting terrorists, and gutter-crawling political weaseling on the part of Liberal MPs salivating at the prospect of ethnic votes

Liberal MP invites entire caucus to Tamil Terrorist Rally

jdobbin · April 10, 2009

Typical hypocrisy, lack of concern for supporting terrorists, and gutter-crawling political weaseling on the part of Liberal MPs salivating at the prospect of ethnic votes.

The Tories ran a Tamil Tiger supporting candidate in 2006. What do you think that was about?

capricorn · April 10, 2009

It's appalling that Malhi attended such a terrorist rally. It's appalling that Lee promoted it. But neither of them are important men.
But Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff is important, or wants to be. For him to countenance such associations is a troubling sign. Neither Malhi nor Lee have been disciplined. Not only does that show Ignatieff's unhealthy tolerance for criminal associations, but it casts into doubt his newfound support for Israel and his new criticism of its terrorist enemies.

Seriously: if Ignatieff won't bat an eyelash when his MPs promote and attend a rally in support of Tamil terrorists, how can we believe a word he says when he claims he's against Hamas and Hezbollah?

http://ezralevant.com/2009/03/liberal-mp-i...ntire-cauc.html

The Liberal party has long been too willing to ally itself to any interest group that promises votes, no matter how unappetizing its cause. Evidently Mr. Ignatieff’s caucus retains several survivors of that era.
For example, Toronto MP Jim Karygiannis lined up squarely behind the Canadian Arab Federation in a confrontation with Immigration Minister Jason Kenney. Once an advocate for Arab causes, the CAF has become a conduit for support of extremists, terrorist causes and virulent anti-Semitism. Yet when Mr. Kenney sought to cut off public funding, Mr. Karygiannis blithely filed a complaint with Canada’s ethics commissioner, putting cheap political gamesmanship ahead of both ethics and principle.

Similarly, Liberal MP Gurbax Singh Malhi thought nothing of appearing at a Parliament Hill rally in support of the Tamil Tigers, a banned terrorist organization. “I’d like you to know I’m helping you guys. I’m behind you because you are fighting for a right cause,” he declared.

Under fire for the remarks, Mr. Malhi maintains he had no idea the rally was for the Tamil Tigers (despite a prominent Tiger flag flying just behind his head in videos that caught the event.) He says he got off a bus, spotted a crowd, and spontaneously joined in. He hasn’t apologized, but did offer “deep regret” that anyone might have thought he actually meant what he said when he pledged: “I’m behind you because you’re fighting for a right cause.”

Hey, the man’s an MP ... why would anyone suspect he might actually stand behind his own words?

Mr. Ignatieff appears to have good intentions. But he has some work to do on his fellow Liberals.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/f...sean-avery.aspx

Ignatieff seems unconcerned about the questionable activities of some Liberal MPs. He should beware that tolerating such conduct may be interpreted as a sign of approval. Or, it could confirm in the minds of many observers that he is content to sit on the fence and let the chips fall where they may. Ignatieff's aristocratic and academic credentials can only take him so far. He'll have to do more to convince mainstream Canadians that he is a leader worthy to be Prime Minister.

Smallc · April 10, 2009

it could confirm in the minds of many observers that he is content to sit on the fence

When you don't have all of the facts, the fence is sometimes the best place to sit.

capricorn · April 10, 2009

Well he doesn't appear to have any difficulty jumping from one side to the other. :lol:

Edited April 10, 2009 by capricorn

Argus · April 10, 2009

The Tories ran a Tamil Tiger supporting candidate in 2006. What do you think that was about?

Probably simple ignorance, much lke your party running separatist supporters. But the Tories put the Tamil Tigers on the terrorist list against the violent opposition of the Liberal Party of Canada, which continues, to this day, apparently, to cravenly pursue Tamil votes at any cost.

jdobbin · April 10, 2009

Probably simple ignorance, much lke your party running separatist supporters.

What separatist supporters are those?

The Tories just appointed a Senator from Quebec who had separatist credentials.

As for the ignorance comment, the Tories fully knew who they had a candidate and where his support lay.

But the Tories put the Tamil Tigers on the terrorist list against the violent opposition of the Liberal Party of Canada, which continues, to this day, apparently, to cravenly pursue Tamil votes at any cost.

The Liberals banned fundraising for the Tamil Tigers in 2001 as part of their anti-terrorism laws. They didn't ban membership in the group.

Argus · April 10, 2009

The Liberals banned fundraising for the Tamil Tigers in 2001 as part of their anti-terrorism laws. They didn't ban membership in the group.

Small wonder given Paul Martin's craven courting of the terrorist vote.

I will always remember seeing Martin and Chretien in the House the day after it was revealed that Martin attended a fund raising dinner for the Tamil Tigers against the advice of Foreign Affairs, CSIS and the Americans. When the Alliance asked him why his response was, basically, to pompously accuse them of racism for insinuating that Tamils are terrorists. Then he sat down with a broad grin on his face, his jowls quivering with laughter. Chretien, next to him, had his ugly face drawn up in a twisted rictor of hilarity, his teeth showing like that of a death's head skull through his deformed mouth as the two laughed.

That, to me, represented the morality of Liberals.

jdobbin · April 11, 2009

Small wonder given Paul Martin's craven courting of the terrorist vote.

The Conservatives were not quick to go into further action themselves until they had more research.

Martin in had been asked not act prematurely when the situation was delicate. That was shortly after visiting Sri Lanka following the tsunami.

I will always remember seeing Martin and Chretien in the House the day after it was revealed that Martin attended a fund raising dinner for the Tamil Tigers against the advice of Foreign Affairs, CSIS and the Americans. When the Alliance asked him why his response was, basically, to pompously accuse them of racism for insinuating that Tamils are terrorists. Then he sat down with a broad grin on his face, his jowls quivering with laughter. Chretien, next to him, had his ugly face drawn up in a twisted rictor of hilarity, his teeth showing like that of a death's head skull through his deformed mouth as the two laughed.

It wouldn't have been my first choice to attend the dinner but the warnings were not specific enough even then. Human Rights Watch was still gathering information in late 2005 and the Tories themselves did not act until they had more solid information.

That, to me, represented the morality of Liberals.

And the morality of the Tories will be tested if they left the government enact a terrible wrath on all of the Tamils in 2009.

By the way, what separatists are you talking about?

Edited April 11, 2009 by jdobbin

Argus · April 11, 2009

The Conservatives were not quick to go into further action themselves until they had more research.
Martin in had been asked not act prematurely when the situation was delicate. That was shortly after visiting Sri Lanka following the tsunami.

I'm sorry but - what? Speak much English?

It wouldn't have been my first choice to attend the dinner but the warnings were not specific enough even then.

There was no question what the Tamil Tigers were up to. There was no question that the dinner was, in fact, a fund raiser for them. CSIS told him that. Foreign Affairs told him that. The US government told him that. He simply did not care. In the face of courting ethnics for votes and donations IT DID NOT MATTER. And then on top of that to snearingly claim that questioning him about it was evidence of racism - what blinding hypocrisy. What a contemptable little man Martin was and is.

And his party is no better. Its behaviour on middle eastern issues is identical - sucking up to dictators and terrorists while cravenly courting the Muslim vote in Canada. For years we abstained on those UN resolutions commonly brought forward by the likes of Iran and Libya, not standing up for principal because the Liberals wanted to court the Muslim vote. One of the few things Harper has done which I wholeheartedly approve of is putting a littel principal into our UN representation. I wonder how long that will last if the Liberals get back into power. I"m guessing not very bloody long given your party's craven history of sucking up to anyone with a buck to toss your way.

jdobbin · April 11, 2009

I'm sorry but - what? Speak much English?

Sorry you were not able to decipher my cold affected typing. I will try to write slower and use easier English for you.

The Tories did not act when they were elected. Stockwell Day waited until he received further information which was delivered after March of 2006. They had called for a membership ban but didn't do it until members of the Tamil community started coming out in that year to say they were been targeted for extortion.

Martin was told in 2005 to not act prematurely during his visit to Sri Lanka when talks were going on. At that time Human Rights Watch was collecting data about Tamil people being extorted.

Both the government and the Tamils used the ceasefire to gear up for their next fight.

There was no question what the Tamil Tigers were up to. There was no question that the dinner was, in fact, a fund raiser for them. CSIS told him that. Foreign Affairs told him that. The US government told him that. He simply did not care. In the face of courting ethnics for votes and donations IT DID NOT MATTER. And then on top of that to snearingly claim that questioning him about it was evidence of racism - what blinding hypocrisy. What a contemptable little man Martin was and is.

If that is true, why did the Harper government not act immediately? They didn't.

In fact, they recruited a Tamil to run for them who was supportive of the Tigers.

What sort of pathetic contemptible behaviour is that?

And his party is no better. Its behaviour on middle eastern issues is identical - sucking up to dictators and terrorists while cravenly courting the Muslim vote in Canada. For years we abstained on those UN resolutions commonly brought forward by the likes of Iran and Libya, not standing up for principal because the Liberals wanted to court the Muslim vote. One of the few things Harper has done which I wholeheartedly approve of is putting a littel principal into our UN representation. I wonder how long that will last if the Liberals get back into power. I"m guessing not very bloody long given your party's craven history of sucking up to anyone with a buck to toss your way.

I think you mean principle.

Which votes are you referring to?

And what separatists are you talking about? You keep avoiding that question.

Edited April 11, 2009 by jdobbin

Argus · April 11, 2009

Sorry you were not able to decipher my cold affected typing. I will try to write slower and use easier English for you.

Easier English? Try English itself. It's that thing with grammar and punctuation and complete sentences.

Did your cold erase your memory of primary school? Because I've had colds before - not many given my superior Scottish genetics, and I don't recall them sapping my ability to speak or write English.

The Tories did not act when they were elected. Stockwell Day waited until he received further information which was

Blah-blah-blah. The Tories promised they would be putting the Tamil Tigers on the terrorist list during their election campaign. The Liberal response was "Vote for us, you wonderful Tamil people and we'll protect your noble freedom fighter group!"

Martin was told in 2005 to not act prematurely during his visit to Sri Lanka when

That is nothing but disgusting excuse-making.

He was WARNED prior to attending this terrorist fund-raiser not to attend, warned it was a fund-raiser for the Tamil Tigers, warned by three separate organizations. His response was "Are you insane!? There are ethnic votes to court! I don't care if they kill babies and rape women! There's money to be had!"

And Jean Chretien's response was "BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You teenk we care about terrorists!?!? We want dere votes!"

Their behavior was disgusting.

jdobbin · April 11, 2009

Easier English? Try English itself. It's that thing with grammar and punctuation and complete sentences.
Did your cold erase your memory of primary school? Because I've had colds before - not many given my superior Scottish genetics, and I don't recall them sapping my ability to speak or write English.

It won't be a cold that takes you down, it will be a heart attack.

Blah-blah-blah. The Tories promised they would be putting the Tamil Tigers on the terrorist list during their election campaign. The Liberal response was "Vote for us, you wonderful Tamil people and we'll protect your noble freedom fighter group!"

Blah, blah, blah. The Tories played down what their intentions were in the campaign according to their own candidate who was interviewed after the Tories decided to ban memberships.

That is nothing but disgusting excuse-making.

You think? What was the excuse for the Tories not acting?

He was WARNED prior to attending this terrorist fund-raiser not to attend, warned it was a fund-raiser for the Tamil Tigers, warned by three separate organizations. His response was "Are you insane!? There are ethnic votes to court! I don't care if they kill babies and rape women! There's money to be had!"

And the Tories ran a candidate was supportive of the Tamil Tigers. You must be disgusted with Harper.

Their behavior was disgusting.

And your slavish support for the Tories who ran a Tamil Tiger supporting candidate with the excuse that they have must have been ignorant about it makes me think that this is a lot more to your bluster here.

Argus · April 11, 2009

It won't be a cold that takes you down, it will be a heart attack.

Unlikely. I'm a pretty laid-back guy.

And the Tories ran a candidate was supportive of the Tamil Tigers. You must be disgusted with Harper

.

I'm disgusted with the election system which allows groups of ethnics to rush riding associations and put up unqualified candidates. But the actions of the Tories on this issue speak much louder than words.

But what has that got to do with Paul Martin and Jean Chretien and Stephan Dion all supporting the Tamil Tigers right to raise money in Canada and support terrorism, suicide bombing, and child soldiers? What has that got to do with Liberal MPs speaking before rallies by Tamil Tiger supporters, and Ignatief trying to stop the Tigers from being bulldozed by the fortunes of war? What has that got to do with the previous Liberal government's craven, cowardly sucking up to terrorism supporters in Canada's Muslim community by abstaining on ludicrous, one-sided UN resolutions against Israel?

Do you really think all that can be weighed against the Tories once having had a Tamil candidate who supported the Tigers?

And your slavish support for the Tories

I've made my opinion of the Tory party fairly clear, and it's far from supportive on most issues.

You still don't seem to understand that the only real reason I continue to be supporting them is that there is no honest, ethical, or even competent opposition to turn to. All there is is - you people.

And quite frankly, your party, a party of morally and intellectually bankrupt, self-serving political weasels, disgusts me.

Wild Bill · April 11, 2009

But what has that got to do with Paul Martin and Jean Chretien and Stephan Dion all supporting the Tamil Tigers right to raise money in Canada and support terrorism, suicide bombing, and child soldiers? What has that got to do with Liberal MPs speaking before rallies by Tamil Tiger supporters, and Ignatief trying to stop the Tigers from being bulldozed by the fortunes of war? What has that got to do with the previous Liberal government's craven, cowardly sucking up to terrorism supporters in Canada's Muslim community by abstaining on ludicrous, one-sided UN resolutions against Israel?
Do you really think all that can be weighed against the Tories once having had a Tamil candidate who supported the Tigers?

We seem to be seeing a pattern here, Argus. Some folks will excuse Liberals of ANYTHING by pointing out the flaws in another party!

I used the same tactic when I was a kid. My mother would accuse me of something and I would distract her by pointing out something worse that one of my brothers had done. My own sin would then be conveniently forgotten.

Jdobbin seems to feel that two wrongs make an excuse and the other guy's wrong always trumps one from his own champions...

Smallc · April 11, 2009

Some folks will excuse Liberals of ANYTHING by pointing out the flaws in another party!

I have seen people do the same thing for Conservatives...but the Liberals.....

Edited April 11, 2009 by Smallc

capricorn · April 11, 2009

Tamil Tiger flags waved during a protest Monday in the city's downtown core were not illegal, Toronto Police have decided.
Tens of thousands of Tamils took to the streets to demonstrate against attacks by the Sri Lankan military in that country's bloody and prolonged civil war.

The red and gold flag of the Tamil Tigers -- officially known as the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam and outlawed in Canada as a terrorist group since 2006 -- was on prominent display during the protest and Toronto Police were looking into whether that breached Canada's anti-terrorism laws.

"Our legal advice is that it is not illegal," Toronto Police spokesman Mark Pugash said yesterday.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandg...817736-sun.html

One explanation why the Tamil Tiger flags were deemed legal in Toronto is that there are over 200,000 Tamils in the GTA. Votes that undoubtedly go to Toronto's leftist city council and to McGuinty's Liberals. I question whether the legal opinion obtained by the Toronto police was truly unbiased or influenced by political consideration.

Someone even argued that the LTTE flag is the future flag of an independant Tamil state and thus is legal.

Justifying the use of the flag, Canadian Tamil Congress spokesman David Poopalapillai said: “What we waved at the rally was the national flag of a future Tamil Eelam. It is not the flag of any organisation or the LTTE.”

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/arti...mp;parent_id=24

Sri Lanka said it would lodge strong protests with countries that have allowed demonstrations in support of the Tamil Tiger rebels.
Mahinda Samarasinghe, the Human Rights Minister, said that supporters of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam had staged protests, using Tamil Tiger symbols, in Australia, Belgium, Britain, Canada, New Zealand, the United States and Switzerland, right.

“The LTTE is a banned organisation in some of these countries. We are surprised these countries allow sympathisers to use the LTTE flags so openly in their protests against us,” he said.

Mr Samarasinghe said that Sri Lanka had asked its representatives in the countries to lodge protests over the demonstrations, which he described as “supporting terrorism”.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle5941602.ece

The Sri Lanka government has a point that countries where the LTTE is outlawed should not allow Tamil Tiger flags at protests. There is reason enough for that government to view Canada's Liberals in a bad light.

jdobbin · April 11, 2009

The Sri Lanka government has a point that countries where the LTTE is outlawed should not allow Tamil Tiger flags at protests. There is reason enough for that government to view Canada's Liberals in a bad light.

You do realize that the government in Canada is Conservative and it is the present government of Canada that Sri Lanka is complaining to.

jdobbin · April 11, 2009

I'm disgusted with the election system which allows groups of ethnics to rush riding associations and put up unqualified candidates. But the actions of the Tories on this issue speak much louder than words.

They do. They actually ran a Tamil candidate in the last election.

But what has that got to do with Paul Martin and Jean Chretien and Stephan Dion all supporting the Tamil Tigers right to raise money in Canada and support terrorism, suicide bombing, and child soldiers? What has that got to do with Liberal MPs speaking before rallies by Tamil Tiger supporters, and Ignatief trying to stop the Tigers from being bulldozed by the fortunes of war? What has that got to do with the previous Liberal government's craven, cowardly sucking up to terrorism supporters in Canada's Muslim community by abstaining on ludicrous, one-sided UN resolutions against Israel?

Once again, what resolutions?

You also keep avoiding the question of what separatists despite being asked a few times now.

The Liberals were the ones who banned money going to support terrorism in 2001.

Do you really think all that can be weighed against the Tories once having had a Tamil candidate who supported the Tigers?

Yes. Yes, I do. The Harper Tories were trying to win over the Tamils in the 2006 election and then decided that since their candidate didn't win to throw them under the bus.

You still don't seem to understand that the only real reason I continue to be supporting them is that there is no honest, ethical, or even competent opposition to turn to. All there is is - you people.

It must be getting harder to support the Tories as they abandon almost all of the ideals their party wishes to represent.

jdobbin · April 11, 2009

We seem to be seeing a pattern here, Argus. Some folks will excuse Liberals of ANYTHING by pointing out the flaws in another party!

The "but the Liberals" argument has been a time worn strategy used by Tories for years now.

Jdobbin seems to feel that two wrongs make an excuse and the other guy's wrong always trumps one from his own champions...

Think I have pointed out that Human Rights Watch and others were still gathering information late in 2005 about how Tamil Tiger groups were using money extorted in Canada to fight their war. The Liberals had banned direct fundraising in 2001 and in 2006, the Conservatives still had to wait until more information came in before they banned membership in the Tamil groups in Canada.

At the moment, you can't address any local issue with the Tamils in Canada (which number in the tens of thousands) without encountering outright support or sympathy for the Tamils in Sri Lanka. It is like going to into an Irish club in Boston or Toronto in the 1970s without someone passing the hat for money for Northern Ireland.

I disagree with the Liberal MP who went to the rally where it seemed he was sympathetic to the war. However, the Tories not advocating for the civilians caught up in this war looks like they are sympathetic to the Sri Lankan government's attempt to crush all Tamils.

capricorn · April 12, 2009

You do realize that the government in Canada is Conservative and it is the present government of Canada that Sri Lanka is complaining to.

The policing of protests on municipal lands is a municipal responsibility. I doubt the Conservatives would unilaterally intrude in municipal affairs. Somehow, I think the Conservatives would explain this issue of jurisdiction to Sri Lanka's ambassador to Canada.

If protests were held on federal property where the RCMP provide protective services, such as Parliament Hill, I would want the Conservatives to tell the RCMP to have LTTE flags banned from protests.

In the case of the Toronto protests, why don't the Toronto police issue a ban on the LTTE flag at protests and have them removed? I think the answer is that McGuinty wouldn't want to upset the 200,000+ Tamils and their supporters that reside in and around Toronto. Neither would Mayor David Miller.

Argus · April 12, 2009

They do. They actually ran a Tamil candidate in the last election.

Yes, so?

Once again, what resolutions?

Take your pick of any of the dozens of one-sided anti-Israeli resolutions the Muslim world pushes through the UN every year.

You also keep avoiding the question of what separatists despite being asked a few times now.

Yes, it's called not allowing you to play your favorite game of diversion.

Yes. Yes, I do.

Yes, the willful blindness and the utter lack of care about anything but vote-getting which marks you as a true hard-core Liberal. It's why I have so much respect for your posts.

The Harper Tories were trying to win over the Tamils in the 2006 election and then decided that since their candidate didn't win to throw them under the bus.

If they were trying to win over the Tamils they'd be supporting the Tamil Tigers like your party does.