Smallc Posted March 31, 2009 Report Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) Air Canada made another key move to avoid bankruptcy court Tuesday but the company's shares dropped more than 22 per cent amid investor fears.Air Canada B stock dropped 26 cents to 89 cents at close at the Toronto Stock Exchange on Tuesday, a decline of 22.6 per cent in trading of more than 560,000 shares. After announcing a new chief executive officer late Monday, the struggling airliner announced Duncan Dee will take over as the new chief operating officer. Dee will be replacing the retiring Bill Bredt, effective Friday. Air Canada shares fall as airliner names new execs Edited April 1, 2009 by Smallc Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 31, 2009 Report Posted March 31, 2009 In retrospect, shareholders wonder if perhaps the Onex plan wasn't a so bad an idea.... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Smallc Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Posted March 31, 2009 I don't think it will be allowed to fail...I hope not for the sake of my travel plans anyway. Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 31, 2009 Report Posted March 31, 2009 I don't think it will be allowed to fail...I hope not for the sake of my travel plans anyway. Go West Jet young man.... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Smallc Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) Go West Jet young man.... West Jet doesn't have enough flight choice. It takes two days to get to Cape Breton from Winnipeg...and it's more expensive than Air Canada. Air Canada won't be allowed to fail because West Jet doesn't have enough aircraft to serve the country...and I don't think West Jet would want to take over Air Canada. Edited March 31, 2009 by Smallc Quote
Alta4ever Posted March 31, 2009 Report Posted March 31, 2009 West Jet doesn't have enough flight choice. It takes two days to get to Cape Breton from Winnipeg...and it's more expensive than Air Canada. Air Canada won't be allowed to fail because West Jet doesn't have enough aircraft to serve the country...and I don't think West Jet would want to take over Air Canada. I not sure why you woul dhave troubles I frequently fly west jet from western Canada to nova scotia Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Smallc Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Posted March 31, 2009 I not sure why you would have troubles I frequently fly west jet from western Canada to nova scotia I can fly to Halifax quite easily (although even then the selection of flights just isn't there in comparison to Air Canada)....if I want to fly to Sydney (I do), it takes 2 days. Air Canada can get me there in 6 hours...if they're still running that is...but again, unless West Jet (or someone else) were to take Air Canada over, I can't see them being allowed to go bankrupt as they still have the vast majority of the Canadian market and air travel in Canada would grind to a virtual halt without them. Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 31, 2009 Report Posted March 31, 2009 I can fly to Halifax quite easily (although even then the selection of flights just isn't there in comparison to Air Canada)....if I want to fly to Sydney (I do), it takes 2 days. Air Canada can get me there in 6 hours...if they're still running that is...but again, unless West Jet (or someone else) were to take Air Canada over, I can't see them being allowed to go bankrupt as they still have the vast majority of the Canadian market and air travel in Canada would grind to a virtual halt without them. Your better off driving from Halifax...mainly for the opportunity of stopping in at Mother Webbs in Antigonowhere Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Smallc Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) Your better off driving from Halifax...mainly for the opportunity of stopping in at Mother Webbs in Antigonowhere We don't have a great deal of time so we decided to fly. It saves 2 -3 hours. Anyway, the tickets are already bought through American Express and with insurance, so we should be OK....I'd hate to have to rebook the flight...and I hope I don't have to...but only time will tell I suppose. If we did have more than the handful of days that we do, we would be visiting more than just the island and wouldn't be flying to Sydney but rather Halifax. Edited March 31, 2009 by Smallc Quote
Smallc Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Posted March 31, 2009 Anyway, Air Canada is in trouble and may need government help. Quote
Alta4ever Posted March 31, 2009 Report Posted March 31, 2009 Anyway, Air Canada is in trouble and may need government help. and should not receive one penny, I am tired of my taxes bailing out air Canada, the auto sector and ect. If West jet has been able to operate for as long as they have without corporate welfare so can air canada. If not the company should disappear, and new comany and business model will spring up in its place if the demand is there. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Smallc Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) If not the company should disappear, and new comany and business model will spring up in its place if the demand is there. And while we're waiting for that to happen, how are we supposed to fly? And by we I mean Canadians, not me. Edited March 31, 2009 by Smallc Quote
Alta4ever Posted March 31, 2009 Report Posted March 31, 2009 And while we're waiting for that to happen, how are we supposed to fly? And by we I mean Canadians, not me. West jet, saving Canadians tax dollars are worth the inconvience to a small segment of our society. I do a fair bit of flying per year and it I would be willing to deal with the inconvience. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Smallc Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Posted March 31, 2009 West jet, saving Canadians tax dollars are worth the inconvience to a small segment of our society. I do a fair bit of flying per year and it I would be willing to deal with the inconvience. The inconvenience of only having 75 planes available instead of over 400? Do you realize that Air Canada has the 8th largest aircraft fleet in the world? Do you realize that the majority of people (I've heard in the range of 80%) still fly Air Canada? It would be more than a simply inconvenience, it would be a disaster. Quote
Alta4ever Posted March 31, 2009 Report Posted March 31, 2009 The inconvenience of only having 75 planes available instead of over 400? Do you realize that Air Canada has the 8th largest aircraft fleet in the world? Do you realize that the majority of people (I've heard in the range of 80%) still fly Air Canada? It would be more than a simply inconvenience, it would be a disaster. It would not be a disaster and since when is the responsibilty of taxpayers to prop up businesses? The disaster is thinking that it is proper for taxpayers to forever bail out a company that can't get its sh-t together. Let it die mark my words within a month or two other providers would have moved into the market and new airlines will have sprung up. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Smallc Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Posted March 31, 2009 Let it die mark my words within a month or two other providers would have moved into the market and new airlines will have sprung up. I sincerely hope the people in government don't think like you when it comes to this. By spending what could be a relatively small amount of money we could be saving the economy a comparatively large amount of money. Quote
Smallc Posted April 1, 2009 Author Report Posted April 1, 2009 But, the major difference between then and now, is that in 2003 Air Canada was a poorly-run business with $14-billion in debt, and struggling through a messy merger with Canadian Airlines. The SARS epidemic finally sealed its fate, and on this day in 2003 it filed for bankruptcy protection.While Air Canada is a better run airline now with less debt, the credit crunch has made it harder for the carrier to access financing as its debt and pension obligations mount. The global economic collapse has reduced the demand for air travel and the resulting stock price tumble increased its pension deficit to $3.2-billion from $1.2-billion in the previous year. It is because of this that several analysts have warned that the airline is at risk of another bankruptcy due to dwindling cash flows. David Newman, National Bank Financial analyst, however, says Air Canada does have a fighting chance of survival this time around. In addition to dramatically lower fuel prices this year, the airline is aggressively lobbying Ottawa for relief on its pension obligations. Air Canada may survive bankruptcy this time Lets hope this article is right. Quote
Alta4ever Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 I sincerely hope the people in government don't think like you when it comes to this. By spending what could be a relatively small amount of money we could be saving the economy a comparatively large amount of money. Really saving us money, how mush has been sunk into air Canada over the years does it amount to a small amount? Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Smallc Posted April 1, 2009 Author Report Posted April 1, 2009 Really saving us money, how mush has been sunk into air Canada over the years does it amount to a small amount? How much do you think having a comprehensive airline benefits the economy? Fact is, Air Canada is now lower cost than West Jet in terms of flights. If it weren't for their pension obligations, they still wouldn't be doing all that bad. Quote
Alta4ever Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 How much do you think having a comprehensive airline benefits the economy? Fact is, Air Canada is now lower cost than West Jet in terms of flights. If it weren't for their pension obligations, they still wouldn't be doing all that bad. I just went to expedia Clagary to winnipeg picked the cheapest dates on the calender (without knowing which carrier it was offering) out with west jet $328, return 328. Air Canada $428 out, $428 return. Lower cost huh? We can have other comprehesive companies, we don't need to bail out the bad ones. Better companies will spring up in their place. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Riverwind Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 How much do you think having a comprehensive airline benefits the economy? Fact is, Air Canada is now lower cost than West Jet in terms of flights. If it weren't for their pension obligations, they still wouldn't be doing all that bad.It is worth noting that pension funds are the biggest albatross for these older companies and it is time the government stepped an severed the pensions from the companies. i.e. if the employees want a group pension fund they can set one up, negotiate employer contributions but the market risk/reward must be fully assumed by the employees - not the company. Companies like Air Canada are not in business to provide retirement plans to former employees and unions should not be allowed to pressure them into becoming one. Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
Smallc Posted April 1, 2009 Author Report Posted April 1, 2009 (edited) I just went to expedia Clagary to winnipeg picked the cheapest dates on the calender (without knowing which carrier it was offering) out with west jet $328, return 328. Air Canada $428 out, $428 return. Lower cost huh?We can have other comprehesive companies, we don't need to bail out the bad ones. Better companies will spring up in their place. I just picked out the exact same flights for the same dates in April (April 14, return 23) as an example. In this case, Air Canada was $20 more. For our trip (in August) Air Canada is about $140 per person less no matter if the destination is Halifax of Sydney...and Air Canada has far more convenient times. West Jet doesn't have a big enough fleet to serve demand right now. Air Canada is quite necessary and unless someone can immediately step in and take their place, they can't be allowed to fail. Edited April 1, 2009 by Smallc Quote
M.Dancer Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 Please lord, don't bail out scare canada....use the money to improve rail service....hovercraft...monorails...anything but.... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Smallc Posted April 1, 2009 Author Report Posted April 1, 2009 Please lord, don't bail out scare canada I think your praying to the wrong thing in this case Quote
Riverwind Posted April 1, 2009 Report Posted April 1, 2009 Please lord, don't bail out scare canada....use the money to improve rail service....hovercraft...monorails...anything but....We need two viable air carriers in canada. if all air canada needs is a break on its pension obligations then it should get it. Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
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