tango Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 (edited) Water doesn't get any better than this! So why would Simcoe County put a landfill on top of it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4AiFq4SC5c Edited August 25, 2009 by tango Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Water doesn't get any better than this!So why would Simcoe County put a landfill on top of it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4AiFq4SC5c Our area tried to fight BFI but they had more money than the citizens and they won. Why not ship all the garage out to Alberta over to the oil sands after the oil companies are done with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Water doesn't get any better than this!So why would Simcoe County put a landfill on top of it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4AiFq4SC5c Well, I'm sure George Smitherman will just accuse all of Simcoe County as NIMBY's and tell you all to get stuffed! I realize that there hasn't been much of an alternative the past few elections but still, any Ontarioan who is oblivious to the McGuinty standard approach to government deserves what he or she gets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted March 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) Well, I'm sure George Smitherman will just accuse all of Simcoe County as NIMBY's and tell you all to get stuffed!I realize that there hasn't been much of an alternative the past few elections but still, any Ontarioan who is oblivious to the McGuinty standard approach to government deserves what he or she gets! Oh ya ... and Tory would have been sooooo much better! right Edited March 16, 2009 by tango Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Oh ya ... and Tory would have been sooooo much better! right We don't know. John Tory lost and now is gone. However, please note that I did say there hadn't been much choice. My point still stands. This dump is going in under McGuinty's reign, so he and his party are responsible. Or do you give him a pass because he's a Liberal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_viera Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) Well, I'm sure George Smitherman will just accuse all of Simcoe County as NIMBY's and tell you all to get stuffed!I realize that there hasn't been much of an alternative the past few elections but still, any Ontarioan who is oblivious to the McGuinty standard approach to government deserves what he or she gets! Didn't the head of Simcoe County council, Tony Guergis, vote in favour of going ahead with Site 41 after he had promised to fight it while campaigning? Seems to me if you're looking for an electoral alternative, he's the one you should be looking to replace. http://www.simcoe.com/article/41509 Edited March 17, 2009 by robert_viera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted March 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Didn't the head of Simcoe County council, Tony Guergis, vote in favour of going ahead with Site 41 after he had promised to fight it while campaigning? Seems to me if you're looking for an electoral alternative, he's the one you should be looking to replace.http://www.simcoe.com/article/41509 You Lib-Con propagandists are too much! Enough already! It's about the DUMP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 You Lib-Con propagandists are too much!Enough already! It's about the DUMP! And it's the politicians who say yea or nay to the DUMP! That's how this sort of thing keeps happening! To many protesters can only think like a poor chess player, no more than one move ahead at a time! So they make a lot of futile noise and then complain. If they get really riled up they might get violent! Crude thinking breeds crude tactics breeds crude results. We get what we deserve, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) And it's the politicians who say yea or nay to the DUMP!That's how this sort of thing keeps happening! To many protesters can only think like a poor chess player, no more than one move ahead at a time! So they make a lot of futile noise and then complain. If they get really riled up they might get violent! Crude thinking breeds crude tactics breeds crude results. We get what we deserve, I guess. It would be nice if people had something intelligent to say about the topic, instead of making up partisan drivel. Pretty obvious what they're paid to surf the net for, and by whom. Edited March 19, 2009 by tango Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 It would be nice if people had something intelligent to say about the topic, instead of making up partisan drivel. Pretty obvious what they're paid to surf the net for, and by whom. Paid? Are you serious? I wish! I have good news and bad news for you. First, you're not paranoid. However, there is someone after you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Paid? Are you serious? I wish!I have good news and bad news for you. First, you're not paranoid. However, there is someone after you! Yes ... of course there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 For pity sake, Bill-- it was on the table long before McGuinty! It's an asinine place to put a dump regardless of who is backing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) For pity sake, Bill-- it was on the table long before McGuinty! It's an asinine place to put a dump regardless of who is backing it. I realize that, Molly. It's just that McGuinty is the only one who can stop it! If it was Harris in charge nobody would be saying "...it was on the table long before Harris!" I'm just saying that you can't ignore politicians and you can't be partisan about them if you want to get anything changed. McGuinty has been very public lately about telling people not to bother protesting about wind farms in their backyard or pretty well anything to do with the environment, which includes dumps. His boy Smitherman has told any protesters that his government will not abide any NIMBYism. With that attitude, if those are your crucial issues then simple logic says that any other choice is at least unknown and thus possibly a positive one. McGuinty has proven that he is a BAD one! Yet many still support him, apparently failing to see the contradictions out of some knee-jerk anti-conservatism. I find it quite ironic. Edited March 19, 2009 by Wild Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 (edited) Just one more way that McGuinty fails to win my heart... However, partisan-ing it wins no points anyway. Does one threaten to go Conservative (the ones who first planned it, leaderless and for the time being, completely knackered), or NDP (Right. In Simcoe County- or even in post-Rae Ontario. Credible threat that is, eh?) or what? If not aiming for broad, general public objection- crossing partisan lines-, and recognition that while NIMBY-ism applies to most protests, this one has much more for legs, then one may as well give up. Edited March 19, 2009 by Molly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_viera Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Landfill's waste is tainting water, report warns Facility leaking harmful chemicals 180 years ahead of schedule http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted March 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 A massive landfill near Cache Creek where Metro Vancouver has dumped nearly eight million tonnes of waste is leaching toxic pollutants into the surrounding environment, tainting local wells and raising health concerns about drinking water, according to a new study. Although the Cache Creek landfill was designed to contain leachate for 200 years or more, it is leaking heavy metals, hydrocarbons, phenols and an array of chemicals after only 20 years, said Michael Easton, president and CEO of International EcoGen Inc. "I was quite floored by it," said Dr. Easton, whose company investigated the site for the Nlaka'pamux Nation Tribal Council, with funding from Health Canada. "We were trying to establish baseline data. We hadn't thought we'd find anything like this." Built in an arid climatic zone, in a natural depression and sealed with a liner, the dump was supposed to be secure from leaks. But the researchers found traces of leachate almost everywhere they looked outside the dump site, including in the Bonaparte River, in a coyote's liver and in rainbow trout, as well as in groundwater. holy crap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKMarkham Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 It's for sure money is passing under the table somewheres. This Site 41 landfill going ahead in the face of total local opposition & common sense, i.e. floating garbage on top of huge aquifer is a good idea? smells real bad. Betcha Miller Waste and T Guergis are getting set to accept Toronto garbage once the dirty deed is done. We can have our very own Cache Creek, right here in Ontario. JK Water doesn't get any better than this!So why would Simcoe County put a landfill on top of it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4AiFq4SC5c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdepelteau Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 This is insanity.... and the conservative mp is just as nuts as the rest of the nutcases in the nuthouse. When words no longer suffice, what then...? When you piss people off, bad things happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdepelteau Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Why...? They are insane, that's why. You can talk to a criminal any way you want, it's not going to do anything. The only way to deal with criminals is with the rod. As long as you don't apply the rod to the seat of stupidity, they will continue to kidnap, murder, lie, cheat, and laugh at you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Long fight over Midland-area dump heating up BILL SANDFORD FOR THE TORONTO STAR Aboriginal residents of Christian Island have set up a camp to protest the dump being built across the road. They want the premier to halt construction. Protesters argue water in aquifer near Midland is threatened by planned waste disposal site May 30, 2009 Moira Welsh ENVIRONMENT REPORTER ELMVALE, Ont. – At the roadside well where cottagers stop to fill bottles with cold, clear water, a sparkling white sign bears the indignation of a community. "Purest Water in the World," bellow bold letters. "The dump will fix that! Stop Site 41." One of dozens planted across Tiny Township, near Midland, the sign is the handiwork of Stephen Ogden, volunteer citizen leader of the long fight against Simcoe County's plan to build a waste disposal facility over lush farmland that bubbles with pure water flowing into Georgian Bay. More than two decades since it was first proposed, the county's newest garbage dump – approved by the Ontario Environment Ministry – is now under construction, with plans to open in the fall. Twenty hectares in size, it has the capacity to hold 1.6 million cubic metres of garbage from Simcoe County residents, enough space to last roughly 40 to 50 years. Maude Barlow, named the United Nations' senior adviser on water issues and chair of the Council of Canadians, has thrown her energy into the fight, vowing to lead protests at the site throughout the summer. "This dump will not open," Barlow vowed. As trucks with giant wheels roll down the site's gravel roads, Ogden watches outside the locked gates, under the No Trespassing sign. On the farm across the road is a growing collection of tents and trailers, a vigil manned by aboriginal residents of nearby Christian Island, on Georgian Bay, who say the clarity of the water that flows underground cannot be put at risk. Leaders like Vicki Monague say they will stay, keeping their sacred fire burning, until Premier Dalton McGuinty stops construction on the site. Monague said the site is on native treaty land, but there has been no consultation from the federal government. "The federal government has a duty to consult First Nations people when something like this is going on with treaty land," Monague said. "We are here to make our presence known." Ogden says the protesters have given up on the Ministry of the Environment, which has backed the project for years despite questions about potential for leachate in the water, whether there is a need for a new dump in a province that is leading a charge toward zero waste and why the county's two dormant dumpsites are not being used instead. If protesters like Monague, Ogden and Barlow claim it is a water and land issue, the chief administrative officer of Simcoe County says they have it all wrong. "They are trying to make the issue political," Mark Aitken said in a phone interview. "And they are trying to make it all about water. And frankly, the issue is not about water. The issue is about waste. Garbage." Aitken questioned claims that the water is the "purest in the world," but said that issue is not relevant. "This site has been designed to be protective of the water resources...." Ontario's environment commissioner, Gordon Miller, says the battle over Dump Site 41 is a political mystery – a site being built on an aquifer in 2009, using an engineering concept proposed in the early 1990s. "If we were to start this process today, we would not build this site," Miller said. "Is it going to fail? Not likely. There will be so much money and engineering spent on it." But protesters across the road from the dump site are taking no chances. "We are responsible for the water, for the future generations, and we are not going to leave until the site is closed," said Monague. Locals are donating fresh food to the protesters and clean drinking water is coming from a tap behind the farmer's hill, all under the watchful eye of an OPP officer. "We're going to let the premier watch. We don't have to do anything," Ogden said. "You can be sure that the police are calling him to let him know if things are going to heat up and interfere with his summer holidays." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Apparently it's safer to build a landfill upon an aquifier, since the positive pressure doesn't allow leakage (water leaks INTO the dump, not out). No big deal. I'm convinced with the environmental scientists saying that. If some hippie doesn't understand the science, that's ok, but doesn't stop progress or a safer dumping solution. Science before emotion children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radsickle Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Apparently it's safer to build a landfill upon an aquifier, since the positive pressure doesn't allow leakage (water leaks INTO the dump, not out).Science before emotion children. Hey, kiddo. You haven't heard of the dump's that are already leaking? There are some very stupid people trying to put a dump on this water source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted June 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Apparently it's safer to build a landfill upon an aquifier, since the positive pressure doesn't allow leakage (water leaks INTO the dump, not out).No big deal. I'm convinced with the environmental scientists saying that. If some hippie doesn't understand the science, that's ok, but doesn't stop progress or a safer dumping solution. Science before emotion children. Dump science isn't doing so well. Another dump using similar technology is leaking 200 years early. The dump located near Ashcroft is sealed with a liner and supposed to be secure from leaks for at least 200 years. But environmental consultants found traces of leachate almost everywhere they looked outside the site, as well as in groundwater. http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/C...0Victims%20Unit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted August 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) Well, I haven't kept this thread up to date very well, but there are serious developments. Simcoe County Council - aka Town of Springwater - has an interim injunction against the protesters to prevent them from blocking access to the site, which they have been doing. 10 people have been arrested, even some who have never blocked the entrance but are leaders of the protest, 2 of them relatives of mine. The OPP has a hit list. Why did the OPP arrest people based on the interim injunction and not wait for the permanent one, in court today? I don't know, but it was a decision of 'the Crown', ie, the Attorney General [email protected] http://www.midlandfreepress.com/ArticleDis....aspx?e=1692347 Simcoe County workers – accompanied by a contingent of Ontario Provincial Police – arrived in the late afternoon to clear chairs, tents and other items from in front of the gates and re-enter the landfill. By Saturday morning, 10 people had been charged with mischief (blocking access to property). Three of them face an additional charge of intimidation (blocking or obstructing a highway). The count is expected to get much higher as police target those on a list complied since the blockade began in early July. The first arrests came Thursday when Keith Wood, 82, and his wife, Ina, 76, went to the Southern Georgian Bay OPP detachment and were each charged with mischief. They were released after signing an undertaking to stay away from the dump on the 2nd concession of Tiny Township. Also charged Thursday were Barbara Hunt, 69; Bob Ritchie, 67, and his daughter, Anne Ritchie Nahuis, 39. Hunt was released after signing an undertaking to stay a kilometer away from the site, but Ritchie and Nahuis were both placed in jail cells when they refused to sign. Ritchie was released a short while later because of his health, but Nahuis was held overnight and appeared at a bail hearing in a Barrie court Friday morning. She was remanded to Sept. 17, released and ordered not to be in front of the Site 41 entrances. However, she is allowed to be on the 2nd concession. Mohawk environmentalist Danny Beaton, 54 – who last winter walked from Site 41 to Toronto to protest against the dump – was arrested Thursday night at one of the entrances. He was also taken to Barrie court for a bail hearing Friday. He was remanded until Monday and sent to the Super Jail in Penetanguishene for the weekend. Gavin Jamieson, 20, was also arrested Thursday night at the home of a relative. He was charged with mischief and released after signing an undertaking not to be near the site. Vicki Monague, 28, of Christian Island, surrendered to the OPP on Friday and was charged with mischief for protesting at Site 41. She, too, signed an undertaking. Early Saturday, OPP arrested Beth Elson, 50, of Christian Island and charged her with one count of mischief and one count of intimidation. She was released and is prohibited from returning to the site. John Hawk, 35, of Christian Island was charged a week ago in connection with the blockade. Monague is one of the women from the Beausoleil First Nation that established the protest campsite in a farmer's field opposite the main gates of Site 41 in May. She is expected to appear in Barrie Superior Court tomorrow [today] with her lawyers to argue that the construction of the landfill must stop until First Nations have been consulted about the impacts to their traditional lands as required under Canadian law. The county’s application for a permanent injunction is also scheduled to be heard tomorrow [today] in Barrie. I'm waiting for the outcome of today's court, and will post when I can. Recent legal precedents relevant to this case: Environmental Group Granted Leave to Appeal to Supreme Court of Canada Re: Red Chris mine in BC, but relevant to all industries and all of Canada, when it is in the Supreme Court “The Supreme Court has recognized the importance of environmental protection, and specifically the importance of public participation in the environmental assessment process, in deciding to hear this case,” said Jamie Kneen, Communications Coordinator for MiningWatch Canada. “Huge projects like this, with significant environmental impacts, are not supposed to proceed without public involvement.” He's referring to the Red Chris mine in BC, not dump site 41 in Ontario, but the implication for case law is already there in the Supreme Court. Dump site 41 in Ontario threatens not just the immediately surrounding farmers. It affects southern Ontario from Georgian Bay through the cleansing of the Oak Ridge Moraine to Lake Ontario, because it is on the Alliston aquifer where we all get our clean water. And ... Frontenac Ventures v Ardoch Algonquins http://www.ontariocourts.on.ca/decisions/2...008ONCA0534.pdf July 7, 2008 [48] Where a requested injunction is intended to create “a protest-free zone” for contentious private activity that affects asserted aboriginal or treaty rights, the court must be very careful to ensure that, in the context of the dispute before it, the Crown has fully and faithfully discharged its duty to consult with the affected First Nations: see Julia E. Lawn, “The John Doe Injunction in Mass Protest Cases” (1998) 56 U.T. Fac. L. Rev. 101. The court must further be satisfied that every effort has been exhausted to obtain a negotiated or legislated solution to the dispute before it. Good faith on both sides is required in this process: Haida Nation, p. 532. And in Brantford, the City seeks a permanent injunction against Six Nations. However, the judge did not yet grant the injunction but ordered consultation: Brantford v. Montour, etc. CV-08-334 March 20, 2009 "[4] This court further orders that Ontario ... initiate, arrange and commence meaningful consultation, negotiation, accommodation and reconciliation among the competing rights and interests of the City of Brantford, the Haudenosaunee people and itself." www.ontariocourts.on.ca Tony Guergis, turncoat Warden of Springwater ... well, he won't survive next year's elections so a moratorium on construction of the dump until after the municipal elections is definitely in order. The Council of Canadians has a lawsuit to that effect ready, but the Council of Springwater/Simcoe County has chosen to take a vote on a moratorium itself Aug 25. You can email them your opinions: [email protected],[email protected],[email protected], [email protected],[email protected],[email protected], [email protected],[email protected],[email protected], [email protected],[email protected],[email protected], [email protected], [email protected],[email protected],[email protected], [email protected],[email protected], [email protected], [email protected],[email protected], [email protected], [email protected],[email protected],[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] Edited August 10, 2009 by tango Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted August 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 (edited) Simcoe North MPP Garfield Dunlop is demanding to know who authorized a legal action aimed at opponents of a controversial dump. “What I am questioning is, who gave county council, county staff and the county warden permission or the authority to move ahead with court action against the protestors?” Dunlop said this week. “Anyone I have spoken with on county council tells me they were never asked to make a decision to take the protestors to court.” Looks like the Warden pulled a fast one on Council and got the injunction and caused the arrests without their input. http://www.simcoe.com/article/142555 Two protestors have been named in a lawsuit mounted by the county, which is said to be seeking at least $160,000 in connection with a blockade at the site. That, too, has raised questions in Dunlop’s mind. “The county council has that authority, if in fact they know about (the decision to sue), but it was a surprise to everyone,” he added. “I asked a number of them and none of them knew anything about it. Who is running the show? “Site 41 is a mistake,” he added. “At some point, the county and the ministry have to wake up to that fact. Our job (as politicians) is to listen to the people. They aren’t doing that despite the growing opposition to the impact this landfill will have on a vital water supply.” Dunlop noted the protestors have called for a one-year moratorium on work at the site, saying the group is urging county council to vote on their request at its Aug. 25 meeting. “I hope county council members also raise the question at their meeting about who authorized court action against Site 41 protestors,” he added. Edited August 10, 2009 by tango Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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