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Posted

In tough economic times there has been a lot of discussion about China and the potential for trade. Even retired David Emerson is speaking out, suggesting that we're missing the boat.

"Canada has "fallen short of the vast potential for mutually beneficial trade, investment, and broader bilateral opportunities," said former Trade Minister David Emerson...Prime Minister Stephen Harper has never made an official visit to China."

http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics...html?id=1310906

I heard a radio interview with Lawrence Cannon, where he was being criticized for this oversight, suggesting that Conservative ideology was costing Canadians. He tried the usual rhetoric but the interviewer wasn't buying it. I thought Cannon was going to blow a fuse.

Canada must beef up official trade relations with China

"China is certainly hurting from the global economic slowdown, but any country that would not urgently seek better trade relations with the world's second-largest economy should take a look at where some of the smart money is headed."

Canadian gov't mismanagement of relations with China hurting economy

Hasty Trade Deals and BadDiplomacy are Undermining Canada'sRelations with Asia

"The Canada-China story offers a unique insight into this practice because there were measurable achievements in business and human rights directly linked to our efforts. A souring of relations since the Conservatives came to power has changed all of that"

Should we now try to forge a better relationship with China? Paul Martin suggested this about five years ago and while I never liked Paul Martin as Prime Minister, he was an excellent money manager.

"For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And

then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff

"I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.

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Posted

Lets just put aside the 16000 executions per year. Trade vigorously and creat prosperity - comfortable people are less likely to get their jollies the easy way. Prosperity does breed better human rights. I have said the same thing about the Palistinian situation and all other nations in the middle east..put food on the table and a bit of healthy recreational diversion and all will be well..............................come to think of it - Saudi Arabia are rich and they still kill for kicks...oooops.

Posted
- Saudi Arabia are rich and they still kill for kicks...oooops.

Saudi Arabia makes China look like Mother Theresa.

Hillary Clinton: Chinese human rights secondary to economic survival

"Washington has been left with little choice but to improve ties in the wake of the financial crisis, which has seen the huge trade imbalances between the two explode in a debt crisis in the US and an export crisis in China."

Should we do the same?

"For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And

then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff

"I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.

Posted
In tough economic times there has been a lot of discussion about China and the potential for trade. Even retired David Emerson is speaking out, suggesting that we're missing the boat.

"Canada has "fallen short of the vast potential for mutually beneficial trade, investment, and broader bilateral opportunities," said former Trade Minister David Emerson...Prime Minister Stephen Harper has never made an official visit to China."

http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics...html?id=1310906

I heard a radio interview with Lawrence Cannon, where he was being criticized for this oversight, suggesting that Conservative ideology was costing Canadians. He tried the usual rhetoric but the interviewer wasn't buying it. I thought Cannon was going to blow a fuse.

Canada must beef up official trade relations with China

"China is certainly hurting from the global economic slowdown, but any country that would not urgently seek better trade relations with the world's second-largest economy should take a look at where some of the smart money is headed."

Canadian gov't mismanagement of relations with China hurting economy

Hasty Trade Deals and BadDiplomacy are Undermining Canada'sRelations with Asia

"The Canada-China story offers a unique insight into this practice because there were measurable achievements in business and human rights directly linked to our efforts. A souring of relations since the Conservatives came to power has changed all of that"

Should we now try to forge a better relationship with China? Paul Martin suggested this about five years ago and while I never liked Paul Martin as Prime Minister, he was an excellent money manager.

Our trade relationship is fine, they ordered a boatload (literally) of Canola during february. Then there is all of our other goodies they like. Just wait until that pipeline to the west coast is built.

The Harper gov't has been aggressively negotiating with the EU and has worked out free trade agreements in some countries in Latin America. Then there our friends to the south. If China wants our goodies, then they will have to play nice or it's hello Europe.

Alberta is one of the most conservative places on Earth, and China seems to have its eye fixed there.

"Stop the Madness!!!" - Kevin O'Leary

"Money is the ultimate scorecard of life!". - Kevin O'Leary

Economic Left/Right: 4.00

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77

Posted
Saudi Arabia makes China look like Mother Theresa.

Hillary Clinton: Chinese human rights secondary to economic survival

"Washington has been left with little choice but to improve ties in the wake of the financial crisis, which has seen the huge trade imbalances between the two explode in a debt crisis in the US and an export crisis in China."

Should we do the same?

It like Madame Albright who stated after the first set of economic sanctions were put in place against Iraq - causing almost 30 children to slowly parish because of the lack of medical supplies said "it was worth it" - Hillary Clinton was always interested in power more than real human and public service. Economic health to be more important than the health and welfare of people is saying - Us rich folks have to live in the style we are entitled and accustomed to and if the poor perish so what. Mean while the horrible record she has personally when managing money and the legal acquistion of funds convicts her of reckless disregard for herself and others ---- she had to borrow the money to get a residence in New York state to qualify for her seat. China is not some super power nor is it the new champion of economy for the new century---they make junk..that the world could do without - yet we are willing to build up a debt to this backward nation, in the hope of some sort of pie in the sky financial growth and stablity. Dellusional - besides they want us all dead if they could......would someone like a lead coated baby soother? :lol:

Posted
It like Madame Albright who stated after the first set of economic sanctions were put in place against Iraq - causing almost 30 children to slowly parish because of the lack of medical supplies said "it was worth it" - Hillary Clinton was always interested in power more than real human and public service. Economic health to be more important than the health and welfare of people is saying - Us rich folks have to live in the style we are entitled and accustomed to and if the poor perish so what. Mean while the horrible record she has personally when managing money and the legal acquistion of funds convicts her of reckless disregard for herself and others ---- she had to borrow the money to get a residence in New York state to qualify for her seat. China is not some super power nor is it the new champion of economy for the new century---they make junk..that the world could do without - yet we are willing to build up a debt to this backward nation, in the hope of some sort of pie in the sky financial growth and stablity. Dellusional - besides they want us all dead if they could......would someone like a lead coated baby soother? :lol:

Correction - 30 thousand children.

Posted
Hillary Clinton: Chinese human rights secondary to economic survival

"Washington has been left with little choice but to improve ties in the wake of the financial crisis, which has seen the huge trade imbalances between the two explode in a debt crisis in the US and an export crisis in China."

Should we do the same?

Why not? Now that Obama is in the White House, it's fashionable to emulate the US. ;)

Seriously, I disagree that we should adopt a foreign policy vis-a-vis China which is formulated by Washington to address the US's economic challenges. The stakes in Canada are different in nature.

"We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers

Posted

America was once dependent on slave labour - and they abolished it because it was not good in the long run. Now they have re-embraced slavery - except the leadership in China are the surrogate slave handlers. Any nation that become dependent on slaves in any form fails ---- part of the reason for the finacial collapse was what America re-embraced this vile trade - and betrayed their own slaves and people for cheaper ones abroad - do we really want to follow that example?

Posted
Saudi Arabia makes China look like Mother Theresa.

No, actually they don't. They are just more honest about things. China only reports a fraction of its executions.

\

"A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley

Posted
No, actually they don't. They are just more honest about things. China only reports a fraction of its executions.

\

Makes me wonder once you have achieved total tyranical power - you have luxury - you have the finest women - the best food ...fassst cars - status ----and boredom....so you have to get your kicks and thrills somewhere - they always resort to killing - it illeviates the strain of rulership..can you blame them - being a tyrant is stressful.....I could see the Saudi spoiled boys--- Hey Abba - I'm bored - lets go get some head ---- human heads --- dreadful.. :rolleyes:

Posted
In tough economic times there has been a lot of discussion about China and the potential for trade. Even retired David Emerson is speaking out, suggesting that we're missing the boat.

"Canada has "fallen short of the vast potential for mutually beneficial trade, investment, and broader bilateral opportunities," said former Trade Minister David Emerson...Prime Minister Stephen Harper has never made an official visit to China."

How exactly is trade with China mutually beneficial? They cheat at every turn. And on the rare occasions when a corporation can bribe enough officials to win a major contract, the Chinese insist that all the product be constructed there. So the Canram Corporation, for example, will send over a few specialists, and invest a lot of money in building a factory in China. They'll teach that workforce how to make their Acme widgets, make a profit on it, and then, if they want to have any hopes of continuing to do business with China, they'll reinvest that profit in China. Their bottom lines look better, but the money itself doesn't get to Canada, and doesn't really employ any Canadians.

In return, our stores are absolutely chock full of every conceivable product made in China by Chinese workers, some of it mislabeled, pretending to be from elsewhere, lots of it of inferior quality, with dangerous and unknown ingredients.

Btw, those widget factories the Canram corp set up in China are now turning out replica widgets and shipping them back here at 1/3rd the price, and so the local factory will soon close.

That's what trade with China brings us. And you want more of it?

"A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley

Posted
Hasty Trade Deals and BadDiplomacy are Undermining Canada'sRelations with Asia

"The Canada-China story offers a unique insight into this practice because there were measurable achievements in business and human rights directly linked to our efforts. A souring of relations since the Conservatives came to power has changed all of that"

Not surprising that Navdeep Bains (Liberal MP, Mississauga-Brampton South) and Raymond Chan (defeated Liberal MP, Richmond) would write a partisan anti-Conservative piece.

Meanwhile we have Warren Kinsella, a close aide to Ignatieff, insulting the Chinese community.

A Richmond Conservative MP called on Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff to apologize to China's ambassador for 'hurtful' comments by Ignatieff's aide Warren Kinsella.

Alice Wong said Monday that Kinsella's joke that Chinese restaurants serve “barbecue cat" is quickly becoming an international embarrassment for Canada.

"During these economic times, we cannot afford to needlessly offend a billion potential customers," she told the House of Commons. "We do not need to offend the world's most populous country.

"The Liberal leader should immediately write the Chinese ambassador to apologize and affirm that Canada respects China, and the Leader of the Opposition must finally act and fire his top political strategist, Mr. Warren Kinsella."

http://www.vancouversun.com/Life/Richmond+...0989/story.html

Of course, Ignatieff had no comment.

A google search of the China news site shows these English articles appeared in that country.

Liberal Bag Man Warren Kinsella Does it Again

http://blogs.mississauga.com/blogs/common-...a-does-it-again!

Hello kitty: Grit aide grilled for BBQ cat comment

http://www.canada.com/Life/story.html?id=1236554

etc.

It is a well know fact that the Chinese don't like to lose face. Insults will not endear us to them.

"We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers

Posted
In tough economic times there has been a lot of discussion about China and the potential for trade. Even retired David Emerson is speaking out, suggesting that we're missing the boat.

"Canada has "fallen short of the vast potential for mutually beneficial trade, investment, and broader bilateral opportunities," said former Trade Minister David Emerson...Prime Minister Stephen Harper has never made an official visit to China."

http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics...html?id=1310906

I heard a radio interview with Lawrence Cannon, where he was being criticized for this oversight, suggesting that Conservative ideology was costing Canadians. He tried the usual rhetoric but the interviewer wasn't buying it. I thought Cannon was going to blow a fuse.

Canada must beef up official trade relations with China

"China is certainly hurting from the global economic slowdown, but any country that would not urgently seek better trade relations with the world's second-largest economy should take a look at where some of the smart money is headed."

Canadian gov't mismanagement of relations with China hurting economy

Hasty Trade Deals and BadDiplomacy are Undermining Canada'sRelations with Asia

"The Canada-China story offers a unique insight into this practice because there were measurable achievements in business and human rights directly linked to our efforts. A souring of relations since the Conservatives came to power has changed all of that"

Should we now try to forge a better relationship with China? Paul Martin suggested this about five years ago and while I never liked Paul Martin as Prime Minister, he was an excellent money manager.

Real old school conservatives are not short sighted as far as human rights are concerned - they built their wealth on such violations. The justification is based in the notion of human nature - they like to believe humanity is bad and base and deserve what they get. They do not want to look for the goodness in mankind - so I guess not looking is ignorant self induced short sightedness.

Posted
China is not some super power nor is it the new champion of economy for the new century---

China is a super power, whether we like it or not. Second in the world. What have sanctions done so far? They are still a Communist country and when we try to block trade, we only hurt ourselves.

They may send us cheap crap but we like cheap crap. Look at the lineups at Dollarama.

Besides, not all recalls of products for safety issues are made in China.

"For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And

then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff

"I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.

Posted
Why not? Now that Obama is in the White House, it's fashionable to emulate the US. ;)

Seriously, I disagree that we should adopt a foreign policy vis-a-vis China which is formulated by Washington to address the US's economic challenges. The stakes in Canada are different in nature.

According to Lawrence Cannon, the Tories are now trying like a hell to get their foot in the door. It could be too little too late, but I think more ties with China could encourage human rights, where sanctions failed.

"For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And

then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff

"I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.

Posted
No, actually they don't. They are just more honest about things. China only reports a fraction of its executions.

\

And you know this, how? The Saudi Royal Family control everything, including family member Bin Laden, who still draws a huge salary. There is one religion, a monarchy and dissidents are executed.

Do they send us a list of names?

We can't posture with one and not the other.

"For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And

then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff

"I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.

Posted
No, actually they don't. They are just more honest about things. China only reports a fraction of its executions.

\

And you know this, how? The Saudi Royal Family control everything, including family member Bin Laden, who still draws a huge salary. There is one religion, a monarchy and dissidents are executed.

Do they send us a list of names?

We can't posture with one and not the other.

"For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And

then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff

"I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.

Posted
That's what trade with China brings us. And you want more of it?

And yet Peter Mackay allowed them to 'copy' one of our Canadian knives and bought a boatload of the knockoffs for our military. Now the soldiers they claim to love are complaining that the handles are falling off.

We do need China but our military should be supplied with our goods whenever possible. We ask them to make the ultimate sacrifice, and yet their safety is driven by profit.

More Conservative Hypopcrisy.

"For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And

then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff

"I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.

Posted
Meanwhile we have Warren Kinsella, a close aide to Ignatieff, insulting the Chinese community.

We already went through that whole eating cats thing and even Mark Steyn said it was blown out of proportion. I posted 'The best ways to eat a dead cat' and we discussed it at length.

A bunch of Cons showed up at the restaurant and only drew attention to the fact that this has been an old belief, as they were tring to prove (?) that they weren't eating a feline. I was hoping one of them would start to choke and we could have said he was coughing up a hairball.

It's nonsense and has nothing to do with trade.

"For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And

then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff

"I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.

Posted (edited)
We already went through that whole eating cats thing and even Mark Steyn said it was blown out of proportion. I posted 'The best ways to eat a dead cat' and we discussed it at length.

A bunch of Cons showed up at the restaurant and only drew attention to the fact that this has been an old belief, as they were tring to prove (?) that they weren't eating a feline. I was hoping one of them would start to choke and we could have said he was coughing up a hairball.

It's nonsense and has nothing to do with trade.

I try to avoid Chinese products. Sometimes it's almost impossible to avoid but I do what I can. It's not so much that I want to champion Canadian products, although I do but not to an extreme. Or that I'm worried about poisonous additives, although I am. Having my kids suck on small toys coated in lead paint or losing my cat and dog to poisoned food does concern me. My pets are part of our family.

I know that other countries have occasionally had problems with food quality but at least if I support our domestic food industry there's some control over the source. A Canadian inspector in China has no power whatsoever.

No, mostly it's that I just can't shake the image of that brave young fellow standing in front of a tank in Tiamenen Square. You know, the one that apparently afterwards was arrested and we've never seen again?

I don't believe that trade with China is in our interest when it is so overwhelmingly at a deficit in China's favour. Also, while I have nothing against China's people I have little to no respect for the morality of its leadership. We will never stamp out software, music and DVD piracy when it's China's leaders who own the factories.

Frankly, anyone who supports China seems to me to be a few bricks short of a load! Good hearted, maybe, but naive about the way trade is actually being done.

Wait till they start dumping cheap cars here! Tell your kids to try for a job in the Post Office. We can build our economy by mailing letters to each other.

Edited by Wild Bill

"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."

-- George Bernard Shaw

"There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."

Posted
In tough economic times there has been a lot of discussion about China and the potential for trade. Even retired David Emerson is speaking out, suggesting that we're missing the boat.

You are a sad political hack of the worst kind. Everything the Conservatives do is bad, anything a Liberal supports is good. However, both parties support trade with China. Emerson became a happy Conservative and turncoat Liberal.

Here is what we help in China with our desire for unconditional Trade.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BBC NEWS | World | Asia-Pacific | Workplace deaths rise in China23 Oct 2003 ... The number of deaths caused by industrial accidents in China continues to rise, official figures show.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3206645.stm - 37k - Cached - Similar pages

More results from news.bbc.co.uk »

Workplace death toll set to soar in China14 Jul 2005 ... Workplace deaths and injuries are expected to continue rising in China for years to come amidst an already-grave work safety record. ...

China Reports 41000 Workplace Deaths16 Jun 2004

China's State Administration of Work Safety is reporting 41000 workplace deaths during the first four months of 2004,

Despite New Safety Regulations, China Workplace Deaths Are High ...The deaths reflect that workplace safety is a relatively low priority for China’s government, which puts heavy emphasis on raising production and forbids ...

Workplace deaths rise in China. | Goliath Business NewsA 9 per cent increase in work-related deaths has been reported by China's Work Safety Administration. Despite a nationwide safety campaign, and the setting.

Workplace deaths exposed | Article from China Daily | HighBeam ...Workplace deaths exposed ... find China Daily articles. Police arrested five owners of bag and suitcase workshops in North China's Hebei Province, ...

U.S. Workplace Deaths Hit Historic Low : Industrial Market Trends30 Sep 2008 ... Workplace deaths in the U.S. last year fell to the lowest level on record .... in an increase in manufacturing injuries and deaths in China. ...

20 Jan 2008 ... CHINA has systematically covered up the accidental deaths

Government blames poor workplace safety on local officials who fail to enforce regulations for fear of hurting business.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A funny thing happens. Workplace deaths on the rise, capital investment on the rise, bad publicity, China goes on to promote work safety and references to workplace deaths fade away......

These are just DEATHS, imagine the number of workplace injuries.

For someone a few short weeks ago, who seemed to care about our industrial job loss, perhaps you forget that one of the many reasons that Capital relocates industrial operations in China is to AVOID the HEALTH AND SAFETY of the EMPLOYEE and the CONSUMER PROTECTION LAWS that we have here.

Canadian EXPORT LAWS are stricter then our IMPORT LAWS.

Thank you LIBERAL GOVERNMENTS!!!

So you dare challenge the Conservatives for doing the same thing with trade???

Maybe you should start listening to the people of Canada, and STOP listening to the corporate lobbyists who want our government to kowtow to all their corporate wishes.

It is already NEAR impossible to find anything made here. It is near impossible NOT to pick up an item and it comes from China.

What more do you want???

Let China worry about China.

We need to focus on getting NORTH AMERICAN CAPITAL invested in NORTH AMERICA.

NOT CHINA !!!

I have no reason to make it easier for CHina and harder for us.

I have no reason to help kill another Chinese Worker for the profits of your dollar store and Walmart suppliers.

:)

Posted
Saudi Arabia makes China look like Mother Theresa.

Hillary Clinton: Chinese human rights secondary to economic survival [/url]

Why Not Ignatieff is the Human Rights Activist. He had no guts or courage to stand up for human rights as an intellectual, why would he stand up for them as a politician.

And since Ignatieff supports the LESSOR EVIL mentality, it makes perfect sense that he would find Human Rights Abuses a non factor.

:)

Posted
It is a well know fact that the Chinese don't like to lose face. Insults will not endear us to them.

I think Harper's comments in 2001 would be far more offensive:

“West of Winnipeg the ridings the Liberals hold are dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from Eastern Canada: people who live in ghettoes and who are not integrated into Western Canadian society.” Stephen Harper 2001 election campaign.

"For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And

then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff

"I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.

Posted
You are a sad political hack of the worst kind. Everything the Conservatives do is bad, anything a Liberal supports is good. However, both parties support trade with China. Emerson became a happy Conservative and turncoat Liberal... Let China worry about China.

OK. First of all Emerson's recent comments are found in a report by the Fraser Institute, a 'think tank' funded by the oil companies who prop up the Conservatives.

"Canadian trade with China represents just a miniscule portion of Canada's overall international trade and the country has a long way to go to fully take advantage of the opportunities presented by one of the world's fastest growing markets, concludes a new study released today by independent research organization the Fraser Institute."

Secondly, we are talking about EXPORT REVENUE, not IMPORTS. Cheap goods arrive here from all over the world and have a ready market. Child labour and employee safety is always a concern, but we buy the junk anyway.

Obviously the Canadian energy sector is worried about Obama's focus on the environment so are looking for alternate markets. Hence, the Fraser Institute getting involved. China may not care if our oil is dirty.

Now that they have spoken, Harper will have to listen. You can't assume that any criticism of Canadian policy automatically means prejudice against the Conservatives. It's a cop out.

"For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And

then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff

"I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.

Posted
Secondly, we are talking about EXPORT REVENUE, not IMPORTS.

We are exporting our Jobs to China. We are importing Chinese Labourers to work for Placement Agencies at Chinese wages in Canada.

China has been Trading Goods long before Marco Polo.

Canada has been an exporter of natural resources since the arrival of the Hudson Bay Company etc.

Canada has an open door to foreign investment in resources, except for China.

After an abortive attempt by Minmetals to buy Canadian mining icon Noranda Inc. in 2004 (Minmetals was advised by US investment bank Citigroup Inc.), China has returned to the table with offers for junior firms....

Instead of assets in Canada or the US, China has bought properties in South America and Africa, where concerns about Chinese resource ownership are less prevalent

Should the Government open the door to Chinese ownership of Canadian Resources?

:)

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