Plains of Abraham re-enactment cancelled

Wilber · February 27, 2009

Whoa there Wilber, the order may not exist today. But that's not the same as saying it has no influence. Sure, the proportion of the population claiming a British origin has diminished, but the Orangist brand of exclusionary nationalism has gained adherents from non-British decedents.
Some of the strongest anti-Quebec language now comes from English speaking Canadians with Scandinavian, Polish, or Ukrainian last names. But the arguments are same as they were a hundred years ago: imperialist sentiments shrouding the intent to subjugate another group. You need look no further than this editorial for an example.

How the Plains of Abraham defines “our” history is not understood the same way in Quebec as it is in the rest of Canada. This is largely because that “history” has taken the shape of propaganda in both communities. Quebeckers are taught that the Conquest was rape, Canadians outside Quebec are told it was the first step towards a glorious democratic polity we now call Canada. Both interpretations are full of it.

As for how people in other country’s can look past re-enactments, you need to look at the specific circumstances. Waterloo commemorates Napoleon’s defeat in BELGIUM and, besides, Napoleon was a dictator that the French ultimately repudiated. The re-enactment of the Battle of Gettysburg has always been an exercise in reminding the South who won.

I can't help what Quebeckers are taught, that is their problem. I was taught that the Plains of Abraham was the battle that gave Britain control of North America, nothing more.

I don't know why you keep bringing up the Orangists. The only Orange king of England was William III who died in 1702, so you should be blaming those nasty Hanoverians.

Ah, now we have Scandinavian, Polish and Ukrainian imperialists. Well as they say, even paranoids have enemies. The Plains of Abraham was a major change in the direction of our country, if some people want to make something else out of it, that is their problem but it won't change that fact.

So if Napoleon had been defeated a few miles south in France, it would be completely different. Napoleon was a dictator and Louis XV was an absolute monarch. The French repudiated his son with extreme prejudice. He was also an absolute monarch, what's your point?

Among other American Civil War reenactments are Manassas, Chickamauga and Chancellorsville, all Confederate victories.

Wayne McQ. · February 27, 2009

I am going back to my <a href=http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?s=&showtopic=13462&view=findpost&p=394755>Post 132</a> on this topic. I recognize that there is a small group of Quebecois who have illusions of grandeur and who agitate for a separate Quebec at every opportunity. They do not represent anyone except themselves. They do not speak for Quebec or Quebecers. They have no elected office and no authority.
Much of the animosity generated in response to the Plains of Abraham issue has to do with the threats to use physical violence to disrupt activities if the reenactment proceeds. We are a peaceful people and do not react well to threats of violence whether from criminal gangs or separatist megalomaniacs. Threatening the peace and order of our society is not an acceptable tactic in political debate. We can never allow any group to win thir point by threatening peaceful citizens and visitors.

In return, we have to confine out vitriol to the people who issued threats to win a point and accept that they do not represent Quebec or Quebecers any more than a criminal gang represents anyone other than its members.

Maybe it's time to send the troops back into Quebec and arrest all separatists, try them for treason and put these idiots where they belong, behind a set of bars. These idiots hate everything English, and it started when Canadians were stupid enough to elect a Liberal government led by Trudeau. Trudeau who started this whole language issue and pitted one language against the other, and up until that time the English and the French seemed to get along fine.

We need to live in harmony otherwise the whole country of Canada will fail and we will wind up as part of the U.S.A., not that that would be a bad thing, since most corporations are partly or wholely owned by U.S. interests anyway, including our once proud Crown Corporation, CN Rail (if not majority owned by U.S. interests, the control of the oard is in U.S. hands.).

Now tell me, who was expected to pay for teh reenactment of the French gettting beaten on the Plains of Abraham, Heritage Canada? God know the government of Quebec doesn't have the money for it since they are continually crying poor-mouth, while Duceppe dumps on the Tar Sands in Ft. McMurray, Alberta, the very place Quebec's welfare cheque comes from through their transfer payments. Duceppe should at least be smart enough to keep his bis mouth shut and quit biting the hand that feeds him, because if Alberta falls, it will mean one thing for Quebec and the rest of Canada's 'Have-Not," Welfare Provinces, they will all fail with them.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Wayne McQ.

CANADIEN · February 27, 2009

Take Autoroute 15, which becomes Interstate 87 at th epoint where the signs go from gibberish to English.

And of course, Iam a whiner for pointing out to the stupidity of such a comment.

CANADIEN · February 27, 2009

Trudeau who started this whole language issue and pitted one language against the other, and up until that time the English and the French seemed to get along fine.

Or course. As long as the Frenchies understood that once they stepped outside of Quebec they and their Canadian language had second-class status.

CANADIEN · February 27, 2009

I can't help what Quebeckers are taught, that is their problem. I was taught that the Plains of Abraham was the battle that gave Britain control of North America, nothing more.

And it is the battle that resulted in the French colony getting other roeign control, nothing less.

I don't know why you keep bringing up the Orangists.

Because the attitude of the Orangist movement is still alive in this country today.

The Plains of Abraham was a major change in the direction of our country, if some people want to make something else out of it, that is their problem but it won't change that fact.

But when people point out that it was a major event that change the course of their society, and that they would rather forget it, the answer is "it was just a battle, get over it".

jbg · February 27, 2009

Among other American Civil War reenactments are Manassas, Chickamauga and Chancellorsville, all Confederate victories.

Maybe us Northerners should take a leaf from the Quebecois and disrupt those re-enactments.

jbg · February 27, 2009

And of course, Iam a whiner for pointing out to the stupidity of such a comment.

I should have put a </sarcasm> on the post. Sorry.

jbg · February 27, 2009

Or course. As long as the Frenchies understood that once they stepped outside of Quebec they and their Canadian language had second-class status.

Why should English-speaking Quebeckers and other majority Canadians have basically no recourse to English services in Quebec? Wouldn't the fair way be to allow private companies to transact business in any language they want anywhere in the country, free of divisive language laws?

WestViking · February 27, 2009

Or course. As long as the Frenchies understood that once they stepped outside of Quebec they and their Canadian language had second-class status.

Horsefethers. The Quebec Act gave the residents of what had been New France the right to retain their language, culture, religion and system of civil law. The Quebec Act did not impose the French language, Catholic religion or Civil Code on the whole of Canada. The pathetic bleating that we woe Quebecers the right to use the French language wherever they roam is a myth. The often repeated and untrue mantra that the privileges accorded to the residents of the former New France made them second class citizens outside of Quebec is also a sad, sorry myth perpetuated by sovereignists.

Wilber · February 27, 2009

And it is the battle that resulted in the French colony getting other roeign control, nothing less.

True but that was 250 years ago, what is it now, your excuse not to be a Canadian? Your excuse to claim that you are still under foreign control? Your excuse to behave like a whining victim?

Because the attitude of the Orangist movement is still alive in this country today.

Really, the only Orangists I have ever seen were on TV marching in the streets of Belfast.

But when people point out that it was a major event that change the course of their society, and that they would rather forget it, the answer is "it was just a battle, get over it".

If it is a major event that changed the course of their society, why would they want to forget it? Using your logic, the Jews would be the biggest Holocaust deniers of them all. It wasn't just a battle, that is why it is important to this country. Rather than moving on and recognizing it for what it did to form the country you now live in, you wish to continue fighting it. The purpose of reenactments is to educate present and future generations about their history, not relive that history or re-fight those battles.

CANADIEN · February 28, 2009

Why should English-speaking Quebeckers and other majority Canadians have basically no recourse to English services in Quebec?

They should not, and you know that's my opinion on the topic.

Now, why should French-speaking Canadians have to endure bigotry when they exercise their normal rights to federal government services in French?

Wouldn't the fair way be to allow private companies to transact business in any language they want anywhere in the country, free of divisive language laws?

Indeed. Let's keep that in mind next time some municipalities in BC try to force the use of English on business signs.

whowhere · February 28, 2009

Why should English-speaking Quebeckers and other majority Canadians have basically no recourse to English services in Quebec? Wouldn't the fair way be to allow private companies to transact business in any language they want anywhere in the country, free of divisive language laws?

You are killing me, buddy you have no effing language. Get your own effing alphabet

http://www.popamericana.com/!/Alphabet%20Evolution.gif

These letters are of Latin and has origins in Rome. Show me the English alphabet? Until then eff off with your offensive rude actions.

whowhere · February 28, 2009

Maybe it's time to send the troops back into Quebec and arrest all separatists, try them for treason and put these idiots where they belong, behind a set of bars. These idiots hate everything English, and it started when Canadians were stupid enough to elect a Liberal government led by Trudeau. Trudeau who started this whole language issue and pitted one language against the other, and up until that time the English and the French seemed to get along fine.
We need to live in harmony otherwise the whole country of Canada will fail and we will wind up as part of the U.S.A., not that that would be a bad thing, since most corporations are partly or wholely owned by U.S. interests anyway, including our once proud Crown Corporation, CN Rail (if not majority owned by U.S. interests, the control of the oard is in U.S. hands.).

Now tell me, who was expected to pay for teh reenactment of the French gettting beaten on the Plains of Abraham, Heritage Canada? God know the government of Quebec doesn't have the money for it since they are continually crying poor-mouth, while Duceppe dumps on the Tar Sands in Ft. McMurray, Alberta, the very place Quebec's welfare cheque comes from through their transfer payments. Duceppe should at least be smart enough to keep his bis mouth shut and quit biting the hand that feeds him, because if Alberta falls, it will mean one thing for Quebec and the rest of Canada's 'Have-Not," Welfare Provinces, they will all fail with them.

What part of occupation do you not understand? Quebec is an occupied colony. Sorry buddy but Canada still has the british monarch as Canada's sovereign and Quebec made a deal with the British Monarch in the Area of culture and autonomy. 1867 Canada has no International Law leg to stand on. So really, the rest of 1867 Canada should mind its own business and get its own history.

Wilber · February 28, 2009

Indeed. Let's keep that in mind next time some municipalities in BC try to force the use of English on business signs.

When did that happen? Not sure what you are talking about but unlike Quebec no government in BC has ever tried to force the use of English only on signs. Never work in Richmond either, the place is over 50% Chinese.

whowhere · February 28, 2009

I know that Quebec exists today and the fall of Quebec City in 1759 was a pivotal point in Quebec's history, only someone who was immature would ignore that because of some percieved insult. It happened, deal with it like an adult. As far as kings rulling by devine right, the Brits settled that issue 110 years before when they offed Charles I head in 1649. They managed to do it without lopping off the heads of the rest of their aristocracy however and after Cromwell croaked, Charlie's son actually made a better king than his old man. The French were just getting caught up with the times. No wonder they couldn't hang on to Canada.

Note To God, Jesus preached the Gates of heaven but Wilber has stated that Jesus's doctrine is crock of shit so they executed Charles I because the brits recognized this then. So in this moment I ask you to prep the furnace of hell described by jesus to obliterate them out of existence once and for all. Going forward we need a clean and unpolluted world. The world does not need this pollution in the book of Life.

CANADIEN · February 28, 2009

True but that was 250 years ago, what is it now, your excuse not to be a Canadian? Your excuse to claim that you are still under foreign control? Your excuse to behave like a whining victim?

You got me. I have no excuse for thinking something I actualy DO NOT think.

Oh BTW, I love the way you ignored half of what I was saying. Remind me of the way some say "it was an important event" in one posting and "it was just a battle" in the next.

Wilber · February 28, 2009

You got me. I have no excuse for thinking something I actualy DO NOT think.
Oh BTW, I love the way you ignored half of what I was saying. Remind me of the way some say "it was an important event" in one posting and "it was just a battle" in the next.

What did I ignore, I responded to every line in your post.

CANADIEN · February 28, 2009

What part of occupation do you not understand? Quebec is an occupied colony. Sorry buddy but Canada still has the british monarch as Canada's sovereign and Quebec made a deal with the British Monarch in the Area of culture and autonomy. 1867 Canada has no International Law leg to stand on. So really, the rest of 1867 Canada should mind its own business and get its own history.

Jupiter told you that in the Bible, right?

Griz · February 28, 2009

Now you know what the indians went through when all the boat people from Europe and the UK showed up, and then they have the nerve to celebrate Canada Day those damn boat people

CANADIEN · February 28, 2009

What did I ignore, I responded to every line in your post.

Here is exactly what it looked like:

The Plains of Abraham was a major change in the direction of our country, if some people want to make something else out of it, that is their problem but it won't change that fact.
But when people point out that it was a major event that change the course of their society, and that they would rather forget it, the answer is "it was just a battle, get over it".

So I stand (partly) corrected. You did not ignore what I was writing. You just ignored why I was writing. Which was to point out that the degree of importance given to that battle 250 years sometimes vary by the postings.

CANADIEN · February 28, 2009

When did that happen? Not sure what you are talking about but unlike Quebec no government in BC has ever tried to force the use of English only on signs. Never work in Richmond either, the place is over 50% Chinese.

Actually, about 10 years ago if my fainting memory of it serves me well. And in one of the northern suburbs of Toronto too in the early 1990's.. What was actually funny is that many of the people who scream "bad, bad Quebec, they want French to be mandatory of business signs" were strangely silent on that one.

jbg · February 28, 2009

They should not, and you know that's my opinion on the topic.
Now, why should French-speaking Canadians have to endure bigotry when they exercise their normal rights to federal government services in French?

They should not, and you know that's my opinion on the topic.

Indeed. Let's keep that in mind next time some municipalities in BC try to force the use of English on business signs.

I heartily agreed. Personally, I patronize many Spanish-only businesses in neighboring Port Chester, New York. My favorite place for ordering appetizer empanadas (my gut could use a break from them) is Inca y Gaucho. Call (914) 939-2100 and try placing an order in English. I have no opposition to that.

Where I do part company is that businesses selling necessities, such as 24 hour gasoline, should at least post giveaway offers or premiums bi-lingually. Basically we agree.

jbg · February 28, 2009

You are killing me, buddy you have no effing language. Get your own effing alphabet
http://www.popamericana.com/!/Alphabet%20Evolution.gif

These letters are of Latin and has origins in Rome. Show me the English alphabet? Until then eff off with your offensive rude actions.

Where did that outburst come from? Are you OK?

jbg · February 28, 2009

Note To God, Jesus preached the Gates of heaven but Wilber has stated that Jesus's doctrine is crock of shit so they executed Charles I because the brits recognized this then. So in this moment I ask you to prep the furnace of hell described by jesus to obliterate them out of existence once and for all. Going forward we need a clean and unpolluted world. The world does not need this pollution in the book of Life.

It'll be alright. The men in white coats will calm you down.

Then again, Travis was not calmed down (link).

Edited February 28, 2009 by jbg

Wilber · February 28, 2009

Actually, about 10 years ago if my fainting memory of it serves me well. And in one of the northern suburbs of Toronto too in the early 1990's.. What was actually funny is that many of the people who scream "bad, bad Quebec, they want French to be mandatory of business signs" were strangely silent on that one.

I don't think that anyone has a problem with any language on signs anywhere including BC. They have a problem when only one language is allowed.