Chris in KW Posted February 10, 2009 Report Posted February 10, 2009 I am sorry but I don't think we could possibly absord "everyone" into our society. ............. We need to have clearly defined rules and enforce them. And we can't get too teary eyed about everyone with a good sob story because it is *impossible* to help everyone who can come up with one. Yes, that's true. If throwing the doors wide open would actually "save" the world, that would be fine. But opening the doors too wide is dangerous. This is the problem in France and Germany, I think. It's much more important to allow the right number of immigrants, than it is to pretend that whatever rules we have in place will protect us from the bad ones. What's the right number? The number who we can absorb into our economy successfully (meaning that both they and our economy benefit). The problems in France are due to high unemployment and ghetto-ization, not inherent hatred between ethnic groups, or the inherent problems in the immigrant community. Quote The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed. (Carl Jung)
Progressive Tory Posted February 10, 2009 Report Posted February 10, 2009 Yes, that's true. If throwing the doors wide open would actually "save" the world, that would be fine. But opening the doors too wide is dangerous. Exactly. I think the problem for some people is that how wide the doors are open, depends on other things besides 'safety'. Skin colour, religion, etc. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Wilber Posted February 10, 2009 Report Posted February 10, 2009 Interesting ... but how do you tell the 'real' refugees from the drug dealers? When they start dealing drugs after they get here. The problem isn't that some of the wrong people get in, its that we can't get rid of them after they have. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Argus Posted February 10, 2009 Report Posted February 10, 2009 Refugee policy has VERY little to do with our safety from terrorists. The vast majority of refugees are fleeing violence, religious intolerance, etc etc. The vast majority of refugees are "fleeing" poverty, nothing more. They come here, largely without skills or education, and impoverish our country. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 10, 2009 Report Posted February 10, 2009 Exactly. I think the problem for some people is that how wide the doors are open, depends on other things besides 'safety'. Skin colour, religion, etc. Virtually every pimp, drug dealer and gang banger I've seen arrested over the past twenty years has been a "person of colour". Now since, aside from aborigines, we had almost no visible minorities prior to Trudeau "enlightening us" I have to suggest that most of our street crime can be atributable to our crappy immigration and refugee system. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Oleg Bach Posted February 10, 2009 Report Posted February 10, 2009 Virtually every pimp, drug dealer and gang banger I've seen arrested over the past twenty years has been a "person of colour". Now since, aside from aborigines, we had almost no visible minorities prior to Trudeau "enlightening us" I have to suggest that most of our street crime can be atributable to our crappy immigration and refugee system. True - and what is left of the white anglo grand children of the original labour that built the infrastructure and poured the foundations for our banks now behave themselves well - strung out on crack and prostituting themselves - they are the hidden shame and the abandoned ones that you do not see - that are not visable. Jamacians will shoot you - even a look of mutual co-operation and care is taken as an insult to their manhood...what do you expect of an abandoned colony that has out lived it's value - and the secondary attempt to import black labour from Jamica by greed old white guys that lobbied for more immigration seemingly did not work out. Then go into the court and the only control they have over the black gang bangers is the catch and release system - the courts know that they will go out and kill what should have been leadership if given the chance and the respect due. Quiet genoicde where they charge twice as much for protein at Jane and Finch - and feed them chips...protein starvation makes you stupid..and that is what they want of the blacks to slowly get rid of them ----they should be honest and just go shoot them and get it over with. Quote
guyser Posted February 10, 2009 Report Posted February 10, 2009 They come here, largely without skills or education, and impoverish our country. They do huh? Calgary-Fully three-quarters of men aged 25 to 44 who immigrated during the 1996-2001 period have a post-secondary diploma or degree, compared to three in five Canadian-born men. The shares of women with a post-secondary diploma or degree are similar. BC-Recent immigrants are relatively better educated than the overall B.C. resident population, as are inter-provincial migrants; Statistics from the 1991 Census show that recent immigrants who came to B.C. between 1986 and 1991 possess a relatively higher level of education when compared to the overall population of the province. For the entire B.C. population age 15 year and over in 1991, 8.7 per cent had less than grade 9 education and 25.3 per cent had up to grade 13 education without graduation, whereas for the recent immigrant population in the same category, 1991 Census figures show 7.0 per and 14.1 per cent,respectively http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/pubs/immig/imm932sf.pdf Across Canada-Among new immigrants aged 15 and over arriving in 2002, 46% held a university degree and a further 13% held some other form of post-secondary credential such as a non-university diploma or trade certificate. Prarie Provinces-Compared with the Canadian-born population more immigrants have university degrees. For example, immigrants in Saskatchewan have a higher percentage of university degrees (25.7%) than do the Canadian-born population (15.8%). Similar differences are evident in Manitoba (immigrants, 22.5%; Canadian-born, 17.3%) and Alberta (immigrants, 24.8%; Canadian-born, 18.4%). Compared with other immigrant groups across the Prairie region, Middle Eastern immigrants in Saskatchewan have the highest proportion with a university degree (54.5%), followed closely by African immigrants (51.7%). In Alberta immigrants from the US have the highest proportion of individuals with degrees (44.1%). In contrast European immigrants have the lowest proportion with university degrees in Alberta (19.1%), Saskatchewan (16.9%), and Manitoba (15.7%). http://pcerii.metropolis.net/Virtual%20Lib...ium/chap05.html Somebody farted? I think Im done now. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted February 10, 2009 Report Posted February 10, 2009 Credentials do not guarentee a good citizen of fine moral fibre...sometimes acedemic conditioning just makes for smarter crooks. I would rather have an immigrant with a kind and loving disposition that was illiterate than some cut throat opportunist careerist with a huge string of letters after his or here name ---- Just like the Asian kid interviewed a while back that I saw --- "I want to be a doctor because the money is real good" - that doctor I don't want touching me...He's the type who will prosper and hire "real good" lawyers to twart all malpractice suits...don't need this type of immigrant! We all talk about the economy being of utmost importance - that's because we are all prostituing ourselves or pimping out others...more money has not helped - look at our present state as far as what is to come? Moral neutrality and greed destroy nations. Quote
Chris in KW Posted February 10, 2009 Report Posted February 10, 2009 The vast majority of refugees are "fleeing" poverty, nothing more.They come here, largely without skills or education, and impoverish our country. Wow Argus, this *sounds* like skinhead/white supremacist rhetoric. Virtually every pimp, drug dealer and gang banger I've seen arrested over the past twenty years has been a "person of colour". Now you're sounding like a disgruntled racist cop. How many arrests have you seen over the past 20 years? Were the people arrested recent immigrants? Were they refugees? At what point do immigrants stop being "immigrants" and become Canadian? Now since, aside from aborigines, we had almost no visible minorities prior to Trudeau "enlightening us" I have to suggest that most of our street crime can be atributable to our crappy immigration and refugee system. Right, of course. Trudeau created street crime by letting in the immigrants. Quote The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed. (Carl Jung)
tango Posted February 18, 2009 Report Posted February 18, 2009 In 2005, over 43000 "private US citizens" were killed in traffic accidents. Where is the "war on traffic"? We would do more for the safety of our society by imposing driver training on immigrants than we would by investing that money in futile guessing games about which refugees might be terrorists. Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
Oleg Bach Posted February 18, 2009 Report Posted February 18, 2009 Yah! And where is the war on those that are not terrified by terror...? You would think they would be working on some sort of super terror thing to terrorize the fearless? What....there are limitations to controling the people though fear?....my....or my.... what will they think of next? Let's see if I can give the "evil doers" some ideas.....hummmmmm....okay...how about this..spread the rumor that floride makes you stupid and everyone will stop brushing their teeth ...or maybe that water has additives that actually dehydrate you and dehydrate the people into submission? OKay...how about this - that Jesus has come and left and wants no part of the mess - that would de-hope the fundies....nope...not that....Okay....I got it - this should destroy the Luciferian luminated ones --- That the pudgey Carl Rove was actually the anti-christ but blew it and got called back to hell to report to Satan...who was so upset that he had a heart attack and died and that there is now offically a power vacume in hell - and no one wants the job...yeh - that's the ticket - not only is God dead - so is Satan.......That should neutralize the empire> Quote
Argus Posted February 21, 2009 Report Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) They do huh? Of course, the remainder of the quote which you deliberately chose not to include since it makes all of what you respond with utterly irrelevant, was The vast majority of refugees are "fleeing" poverty, nothing more. Calgary-Fully three-quarters of men aged 25 to 44 who immigrated during the 1996-2001 period have a post-secondary diploma or degree, compared to three in five Canadian-born men. Who gives a crap? Unless you find some cite which says vast numbers of refugees have post-secondary diplomas or degrees you have responded with nothing of interest, value or relevance. Again. Edited February 21, 2009 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted February 21, 2009 Report Posted February 21, 2009 Wow Argus, this *sounds* like skinhead/white supremacist rhetoric. Actually, no, I sound more like someone familiar with the refugee problem. Now you're sounding like a disgruntled racist cop. How many arrests have you seen over the past 20 years? Were the people arrested recent immigrants? Were they refugees? At what point do immigrants stop being "immigrants" and become Canadian? To my mind, virtually never. If you're born and raised in Pakistan or England, or wherever, that sets the tone for your cultural value system and beliefs which is unlikely to change a lot just because you move somehwere new. The fact the statisticians don't count immigrants who are convicted of crime 3 years after they get here - because now they're citizens - is a scandal, imho. Right, of course. Trudeau created street crime by letting in the immigrants. I don't know for an absolute fact that street crime would be far lower now without the liberalization of immigration - but we had no street gangs to speak of prior to that liberalization, no drive-bys, no swarmings, the vast majority of the people involved now appear to be immigrants. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
guyser Posted February 21, 2009 Report Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) Of course, the remainder of the quote which you deliberately chose not to include since it makes all of what you respond with utterly irrelevant, was The vast majority of refugees are "fleeing" poverty, nothing more. Oh boy. You said, (that means you argus, your words) "They come here, largely without skills or education, and impoverish our country" Sadly, as was shown, they dont. An education generally means they have skills, but they could be fleeing an impovershed region. Hell, even a rich guy in Haiti leaving his country could be said to be fleeing poverty. Want me to post those stats again ? So anyway, I said "Calgary-Fully three-quarters of men aged 25 to 44 who immigrated during the 1996-2001 period have a post-secondary diploma or degree, compared to three in five Canadian-born men." That means 75% of the men who immigrated have a post secondary diploma or degree vs 60% of Cdn born men. Pretty cut and dry for most of us. And of course here is your reply.... Who gives a crap? Unless you find some cite which says vast numbers of refugees have post-secondary diplomas or degrees you have responded with nothing of interest, value or relevance.Again. Um....I beleive 75% having is better than 60% having an education diploma or degree. It is nothing of interest value or relevance only when you have been spanked as a one trick pony immigrant hater. (and they have an education , or better, that rivals yours) Hows that traffic in Ottawa today ? I hope you didnt catch a red light Edited February 21, 2009 by guyser Quote
guyser Posted February 21, 2009 Report Posted February 21, 2009 Actually, no, I sound more like someone familiar with the refugee problem. What , like education accomplishments? See above but we had no street gangs to speak of prior to that liberalization, no drive-bys, no swarmings, the vast majority of the people involved now appear to be immigrants. Please provide a cite for 'this vast majority' Thanks Quote
Argus Posted February 22, 2009 Report Posted February 22, 2009 Oh boy. You said, (that means you argus, your words) "They come here, largely without skills or education, and impoverish our country" Uh, yes, refugees. Sadly, as was shown, they dont. I'm really sorry that your genetics passed on so little intelligence you are incapable of understanding the difference between refugees and immigrants. But that's really YOUR problem, not mine. Want me to post those stats again ? You don't think you looked silly enough posting them once? So anyway, I said "Calgary-Fully three-quarters of men aged 25 to 44 who immigrated during the 1996-2001 period have a post-secondary diploma or degree, compared to three in five Canadian-born men." Sooo, you're saying that all the immigrants in Calgary are refugees? Got anything to back that up? That means 75% of the men who immigrated have a post secondary diploma or degree vs 60% of Cdn born men. Pretty cut and dry for most of us. If you say so. Um....I beleive 75% having is better than 60% having an education diploma or degree. Depends on what kind of education and what other skills exist with it. Given the rate of immigrant poverty, which is high and rising, I'd say not very much. But we were talking about refugees. It is nothing of interest value or relevance only when you have been spanked as a one trick pony immigrant hater. (and they have an education , or better, that rivals yours) Evidently their English comprehension is better than yours. Then again not much of a bar to rise above there. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Oleg Bach Posted February 22, 2009 Report Posted February 22, 2009 The bond between American money power guys and the Canadian ones is strong - it is a pact. Don't expect the Supreme Court to go against the will of money and power - they do as instructed - surpise surprise - as if that body of elitist sitting in that fancey building actually have power - what a joke. Those in America who want to wage war for excietment and profit will continue to do so and they expect us to keep in line - The historic connection between Canadian big buisness and Ameican was fused over 60 years ago and the great pact is passed down - after all money and control over the people is paramount and of couse they know what is best.. ----- I too at one time believed that the Supreme Court was just and all powerful - after all they do have the title os SUPREME..but they are not. It is a very mature and practical approach to except these facts of life. Deal with it. Quote
Argus Posted February 22, 2009 Report Posted February 22, 2009 What , like education accomplishments? See above Clearly, refugees aren't the only people who lack an eduation and are incapable of reading English. Please provide a cite for 'this vast majority'Thanks Provide a cite for saying the great majority appear to be visible minority members? I don't require a cite to support an opinion. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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