Argus Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 Canada is totally more than a strip of geography.. But yes, everyone from anywhere is welcome here, and everyone is equal. It doesn't matter where you came from. As long as you are willing to respect our country and our laws. Canadian pride is not merely based on the fact that you were just born here, but if you believe in our institutions, laws and are proud of our history and heritage. Do you have a problem with ethnic groups and their restaurants? How come people from around the world are not welcome in Canada? People are not comfortable anywhere else in the world , that is why they choose to move to the greatest country on Earth. If you think that only those who were born in Canada are able to appreciate Canada, then you could elicit the same joy out of any country; as long as you were born there.. Of course, we cannot choose where you were born, why would you be so proud of it? Instead, use your own conscientious thought and decide which country is the best for you. Yes... Everyone is equal.. How could you say otherwise ? I must've misunderstood you and I am sorry if I have.. Otherwise, I suppose philosophical thought has retrograded about 200 years... Do you lock your door at night or leave it open so anyone who wants to can come in and enjoy the place? Is everyone equal in your house as long as they don't crap on the rug? No matter who they are, what language they speak, how much they smell, or how crowded they make the place? Do you say that the guy who just wandered in off the street is entirely equal to your son, and neither should get any favoritism from you? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
LesterDC Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 I think I will quote Truman on this one."I don’t give a damn about “The Missouri Waltz” but I can’t say it out loud because it’s the song of Missouri. It’s as bad as “The Star-Spangled Banner” so far as music is concerned. " He must have been a real country hater saying that right? You don't get it. Yes, they aren't very brilliant pieces of music... But it is more about what the songs represent. Quote
roof_top_eagle Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 Not so sure about that, but anyhow, good for them. We have a flag flying outside of every school.Good enough for me. If we have to put a flag in front of kids daily to remind them what it looks like, we are screwed. I don't think the flag is there to remind them of what it looks like. It's more symbolic. I don't think we need a flag in the classrooms but I'd settle for schools getting a new $20 flag once a year instead of those old warn out faded ugly ones you see outside schools. So, they say the Pledge of Socialism in the US, I imagine you didnt want to say 'elegance' , unless they cite that one 'should never wear white after labour day, dont mix your plaids,and there are 3 forks set for a proper dinner setting'. Three forks at a dinner setting? yes your right, my proofreading is flawed, I meant Allegiance The pledge of allegiance was penned by a socialist, and they changed it in the 50's IIRC to include "god" . Why they do that is beyond me. I have always thought is was false pride. What I was driving at was that Canadian pride seems so false, I go south of the border and I see flags everywhere, "God bless America" is all over the place. I'm hard pressed to find anyone wearing a Canadian flag their shoulder much less the Canadian Flag on one and a support the troops patch on the other like myself. Good luck finding anyone but a soldier sporting a Canadian Flag. I mean in the USA every cop has one either on a shoulder or on their chest. It took me months prior to Christmas to find a belt buckle of the Canadian flag for my grandfather, they are common place in the USA. Canadians fall short when it comes to showing love for their country and this measure seems to take it all that much farther. This is altogether something different. Do we need more taught about Canadian history? Yes I think so. But I do not agree that this countries people do not have pride about it. If anything there is more pride shown about this country than there ever was. I only agree about the Canadian history, I find it hard to find true love for Canada out there. Quote The great themes of Canadian history are as follows: Keeping the Americans out, keeping the French in, and trying to get the Natives to somehow disappear. - Will Ferguson *roof_top_eagle*
Smallc Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 What I was driving at was that Canadian pride seems so false, I go south of the border and I see flags everywhere, "God bless America" is all over the place. I'm hard pressed to find anyone wearing a Canadian flag their shoulder much less the Canadian Flag on one and a support the troops patch on the other like myself. Good luck finding anyone but a soldier sporting a Canadian Flag. This isn't the US. Canadians have a different kind of pride in their country (well, not me...I have a flag on most of my coats...and in my yard). Canadians have an underlying satisfaction with their country overall. Thy aren't going to should it from the roof tops for the most part, but they are still very fond of it. Quote
roof_top_eagle Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 I think I will quote Truman on this one."I don’t give a damn about “The Missouri Waltz” but I can’t say it out loud because it’s the song of Missouri. It’s as bad as “The Star-Spangled Banner” so far as music is concerned. " He must have been a real country hater saying that right? You don't get it. Look at my Signature The great themes of Canadian history are as follows: Keeping the Americans out, keeping the French in, and trying to get the Natives to somehow disappear.- Will Ferguson the sad thing is it is all too true. We've done so much more but no one knows it. Quote The great themes of Canadian history are as follows: Keeping the Americans out, keeping the French in, and trying to get the Natives to somehow disappear. - Will Ferguson *roof_top_eagle*
LesterDC Posted January 29, 2009 Report Posted January 29, 2009 Do you lock your door at night or leave it open so anyone who wants to can come in and enjoy the place? Is everyone equal in your house as long as they don't crap on the rug? No matter who they are, what language they speak, how much they smell, or how crowded they make the place? Do you say that the guy who just wandered in off the street is entirely equal to your son, and neither should get any favoritism from you? The Government is not supposed to play favourites.. A citizen comes to this country, strips a few of their natural rights and accepts the government as the source of their security. This is what every citizen does, it is the social contract; therefore, there should be no distinction. Nationalism is not mandatory; however, if you lived in such a great country, you would inevitably feel nationalistic. Are you saying that a naturalized citizen could not love this country as much as somebody who was born here? Quote
cybercoma Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 Do you lock your door at night or leave it open so anyone who wants to can come in and enjoy the place? Is everyone equal in your house as long as they don't crap on the rug? No matter who they are, what language they speak, how much they smell, or how crowded they make the place? Do you say that the guy who just wandered in off the street is entirely equal to your son, and neither should get any favoritism from you?The state as the parents of society went out of style in the 16th century. Quote
Argus Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 The Government is not supposed to play favourites.. Between Canadians and foreigners? The government is damned sure supposed to play favourites there. A citizen comes to this country, strips a few of their natural rights and accepts the government as the source of their security. This is what every citizen does, it is the social contract; therefore, there should be no distinction. Oh I don't disagree that new citizens ought to be equal before the law and treated equally by government. However, I don't really think of them as Canadians. And I don't think they should be legally sworn in as citizens until they've been here at least ten years. It used to be seven, then it was lowered to three. That is way too old to even begin to shrug off old habits, cultural beliefs and traditions. What we have are all sorts of "Canadians" who are Canadian in name only (see the Khadres), voting and campaigning for changes in our laws and traditions based on their beliefs - from their countries. however, if you lived in such a great country, you would inevitably feel nationalistic. Are you saying that a naturalized citizen could not love this country as much as somebody who was born here? If I move to China tomorrow, and they give me a piece of paper that says I'm a Chinese citizen - realistically am I really Chinese? I know nothing about its history or culture, and don't speak Chinese. I'm a Canadian. I have that as my culture, and probably always will. It might be that in ten or twenty or thirty years I'd have been assimilated, to some degree, into China's culture, but I damned sure wouldn't be Chinese within a couple of years, and probably I never would be. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 The state as the parents of society went out of style in the 16th century. How so? They are more the parents now than they were in the 16th century. Back then, they pretty much ignored you. If you were cold, you froze. If you couldn't find enough food to eat, you starved. If you were sick, you got better, or you died. If you beat your wife or children - or raped them - the state couldn't care less. If you didn't want to educate your kids, the state didn't care, nor would it do it for you one way or another. In fact, it really didn't give a damn about you. Nowadays, it will feed and clothe and house you, and your family, and it will take care of you when you're ill. It will tell you how to act, including within your own family, how to behave, and even punish you if you offend the other children ... er, other citizens. How can you possibly make the case the state is less of a parent now than it used to be? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Drea Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 In the USA they have a flag at the front of every classroom, they state the pledge of elegance every day and have actual pride in their country. Canada however can't seem to get any pride into a day heck we teach 'American history in school, the USA couldn't give a rats tail about Canadian history so why do we bother?....Pathetic Every day? Why every single day? When something is repeated over and over and over and over again, it becomes rote and means nothing. Saving it for special occasions makes more sense and gives it more meaning. I still get goosebumps and sometimes even tear up when I stand and sing O Canada... but I would grow weary of it very quickly if I had to sing it every day. Quote ...jealous much? Booga Booga! Hee Hee Hee
guyser Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 No surprise there. To you, Canada is nothing more than a strip of geography. Everyone from anywhere is welcome, and all are equal, no matter where they came from. Nothing whatsoever special about being born and raised here. Nothing special about any of our institutions and nothing worth noting about our shared history. You'd be just as comfortable anywhere else on Earth, and couldn't possibly care less, so long as you get your ethnic restaurants and can feel all mooshy about how liberal and unbiased you are. Well I see you are introducing a whole lot of claptrap that, at least in your mind, seems relevant. One can only get from your post is... 1) sing a song=canada is more than a strip of geography 2)everyone is not welcome, nor are they equal even if born here, =equals singing an anthem? 3)knowing the anthem = knowing history 4)if one wants the anthem saved for special occasions = theyd feel more confortable elsewhere 5)if one doesnt want to sing every day they must love ethnic restaurants. Whew....such logic. Quote
LesterDC Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 Between Canadians and foreigners? The government is damned sure supposed to play favourites there. Between Canadian citizens? No... Oh I don't disagree that new citizens ought to be equal before the law and treated equally by government. However, I don't really think of them as Canadians. And I don't think they should be legally sworn in as citizens until they've been here at least ten years. It used to be seven, then it was lowered to three. That is way too old to even begin to shrug off old habits, cultural beliefs and traditions. What we have are all sorts of "Canadians" who are Canadian in name only (see the Khadres), voting and campaigning for changes in our laws and traditions based on their beliefs - from their countries. So what constitutes a "Canadian" to you? Quote
LesterDC Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 5)if one doesnt want to sing every day they must love ethnic restaurants.Whew....such logic. What is the matter with ethnic restaurants anyhow? Does that even imply ANYTHING? Damnnit , I love Japanese food and you ain't going to stop me Quote
Smallc Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 The New Brunswick government will be examining rules that allow schools to independently decide whether they will play the national anthem on a daily basis, says Education Minister Kelly Lamrock.Lamrock made the announcement on Thursday after it was revealed on Wednesday that an elementary school in southern New Brunswick had stopped playing O Canada at the start of each school day about a year ago. Schools should have to play O Canada: N.B. Education Minister Thank God. I was afraid this would be allowed to continue unopposed. Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 Based on my post, how did you come to the following conclusions: If the nation building efforts are artificial to begin with, how can they ever be successful at creating national unity? Furthermore, if this country is so united by such nation building efforts, then why are we still dealing with secessionists and native rights? Do you believe it's possible to achieve a single homogeneous national identity? And in doing so, do you think it's ethical to subjugate cultural identity for national unity? There are much bigger questions here to be considered than the over-simplistic, "shut up and take two minutes to respect history". Do you even know, or more accurately understand, the history of "O Canada"? If playing that song everyday in school is the glue keeping this country together, then I hope there is a God to help us because we're screwed. We are still dealling with sovergntists, and seperatist, (I was informed by a Quebecer their is appearently a difference, not quite sure what that is since they both have the same goal) because no one has delt with the issue head on and we allow them to have political credibilty in Federal government. A song on its own will do nothing, but it with other symbolism do provide a national idenity and gives citizens something in common to gather around they remind us of the greatness of our country and that we can't take it for granted. Our national anthem is one of these symbols that does this and needs to played over and over to keep the ideals of Canada fresh in our minds. As is said out of sight out of mind. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
punked Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 We are still dealling with sovergntists, and seperatist, (I was informed by a Quebecer their is appearently a difference, not quite sure what that is since they both have the same goal) because no one has delt with the issue head on and we allow them to have political credibilty in Federal government. A song on its own will do nothing, but it with other symbolism do provide a national idenity and gives citizens something in common to gather around they remind us of the greatness of our country and that we can't take it for granted. Our national anthem is one of these symbols that does this and needs to played over and over to keep the ideals of Canada fresh in our minds. As is said out of sight out of mind. Know what might keep this country together instead of song? Maybe our PM not telling over half the people of Quebec their elected MP's are horrible and should never have a say in anything the government does unless it is what the PM wants. That might be a way to deal with the sovergntists over song just an idea. Quote
Alta4ever Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 Know what might keep this country together instead of song? Maybe our PM not telling over half the people of Quebec their elected MP's are horrible and should never have a say in anything the government does unless it is what the PM wants. That might be a way to deal with the sovergntists over song just an idea. Not likely. They exist for one purpose, and seem to be doing what ever they can to march towards those ends. Mulrooney tried Trudeau tried Chretien tried, Martin tried, and Harper has tried. Did you know the that French Translation of our National Anthem is different from the english version. Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
Progressive Tory Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 Are you confusing our National Anthem with the Americans, because our is not about war. It is not a story of war. I know the words to the National Anthem. However, I read the article again and realize that it was the school's decision. I thought it had stopped because of complaints from parents. "Julia said the national anthem is one way that she feels closer to the Canadian soldiers who are serving overseas" If it has that personal meaning for her that's great. However, singing it everyday can also make it mundane, when it should be reverent. The principal mentions that children are getting off buses, etc. while it's playing. For many students it may be just a bit of soundtrack from their life, and for kids like Julia, it could be more upsetting watching the hustle and bustle during something that has such a profound meaning to them. "Now, Millett said it's more special for students to have the anthem sung at the new "celebrate assemblies," where they can all stand together and sing O Canada" If reserved for special assemblies it would have more meaning, since everyone is standing at attention. If there is concern that the words will be forgotten, download it to their MP3 player. But of course, if more students and parents want it to remain, then maybe play it at a different time, then when there's hub bub. I'm sure they'll sort it out. I'm glad that my grandson's school only plays it when it means the same to all of them. BTW. I hate war but do support the troops. Just want them to come home. I have two friends with sons over there and they're nervous wrecks. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Alta4ever Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) It was played everyday at school at the start of class, not before. So you wouldn't be getting off buses or getting books. If you happened to be late you were to stand still and listen or sing. If you were caught not adhering to the rule you usually got an essay or some other extra assignment to do reaserching this or that about Canada. I know I wrote one. Worked well when I was a child I never quite undstood the significance, now it means something to me. Edited January 30, 2009 by Alta4ever Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
cybercoma Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 Argus, you do realize this whole issue isn't necessarily about immigrants, right? It was never stated what ethnicity the families were or what their specific qualms were about the anthem. To be sure, the Acadien French and the First Nations in NB also have reason to take exception to the anthem. So, your rant against immigration--par for the course with you--is beside the point. That's not to mention the myopic-mindedness those rants entail, considering this is a nation constructed of immigrants. Of course, if history repeats itself, you'll just put up a strawman that insists I'm advocating unmitigated immigration, and argue against that. So, I don't know why I even bother replying to your ultra-nationalist delusions. Quote
cybercoma Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 Also, the national anthem is not an expression of military support, nor should it be. Quote
Progressive Tory Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 If you were caught not adhering to the rule you usually got an essay or some other extra assignment to do reaserching this or that about Canada. I know I wrote one. Worked well when I was a child I never quite undstood the significance, now it means something to me. Forcing kids to listen to it will only make it a negative experience. If you want to inspire and make it positive, reserve it for special occasions. But like I say, if the majority want it back, it should be brought back. They should be able to work around bus schedules. I'd like to see a video of those classes though if they do play it every morning, to see if the kids really are listening or just hoping the teacher doesn't ask them for their homework. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
CANADIEN Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 Are you confusing our National Anthem with the Americans, because our is not about war. It is not a story of war. Oh Canada O Canada! Our home and native land! True patriot love in all thy sons command. With glowing hearts we see thee rise, The True North strong and free! From far and wide, O Canada, We stand on guard for thee. God keep our land glorious and free! O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. O Canada, we stand on guard for thee. I f you look at the original text, there is a very evident military reference: Ô Canada! Terre de nos aïeux, Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux. Car ton bras sait porter l'épée, Il sait porter la croix; Ton histoire est une épopée Des plus brillants exploits Et ta valeur de foi trempée, Protégera nos foyers et nos droits, Protégera nos foyers et nos droits. Quote
Progressive Tory Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 I f you look at the original text, there is a very evident military reference: It's definitely about standing on guard, and any national anthem inspires patriotism and that always means war at some time or other. When I was in school, we never sang the anthem everyday, but did have to sing "God Save the Queen." I once asked my mom what the queen did that God had to keep saving her from. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
CANADIEN Posted January 30, 2009 Report Posted January 30, 2009 Canada is totally more than a strip of geography.. But yes, everyone from anywhere is welcome here, and everyone is equal. It doesn't matter where you came from. As long as you are willing to respect our country and our laws. Canadian pride is not merely based on the fact that you were just born here, but if you believe in our institutions, laws and are proud of our history and heritage. Do you have a problem with ethnic groups and their restaurants? How come people from around the world are not welcome in Canada? People are not comfortable anywhere else in the world , that is why they choose to move to the greatest country on Earth. If you think that only those who were born in Canada are able to appreciate Canada, then you could elicit the same joy out of any country; as long as you were born there.. Of course, we cannot choose where you were born, why would you be so proud of it? Instead, use your own conscientious thought and decide which country is the best for you. Yes... Everyone is equal.. How could you say otherwise ? I must've misunderstood you and I am sorry if I have.. Otherwise, I suppose philosophical thought has retrograded about 200 years... Hear hear Quote
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