jbg Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 but it's okay to claim rights to a land that was already occupied because you say that it is your "promised land"? The Jewish people started fighting first when they wanted to be their own country.. Why does everyone think that every little Muslim tribe that leaches off the UN is entitled to a land of its own but the Jews aren't? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Why does everyone think that every little Muslim tribe that leaches off the UN is entitled to a land of its own but the Jews aren't? Beats me.....meanwhile we're still screwing the PalestIndians in Norte America...go figure? Israel knows what's best for Israel.....nobody else does. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 There will be no peace in the middle east. Unless of course there are no more Palestinians. Oh, yeah, that's really brilliant... now let's look at it this way: There will be no peace in the middle east. Unless of course there are no more Israels. How does that sound? Quote Some of us on here appreciate a view OTHER than the standard conservative crap. Keep up the good work and heck, they have not banned me yet so you are safe Cheers! Drea
BC_chick Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) I really doubt Israel cares what you think, there. They'll do what they have to do to stop the rockets from hitting Israeli citizens and property. So, how does it happen that a nice Canadian from Kitchener supports terrorists like HAMAS with pro-Nazi leanings? Don't worry. I don't want to hear the story. Yes, as we all know, any criticism of Israel automatically means support for terror. You might want to add the following to the list of Hamas supporters: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-rosenberg...g_b_154817.html http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052057.html http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull http://www.meretzusa.org/meretz-usa-calls-...srael-and-hamas http://www.jstreet.org/campaigns/gaza-stop-violence http://ijvcanada.blogspot.com/2008/12/inde...s-condemns.html Edited January 3, 2009 by BC_chick Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 It goes a lot further than that. There will be no peace in the Middle East in our time. Give it 50-100 years when we don't need oil anymore. Then Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia etc can sit on their sand and get laughed at. Maybe by then they'll also accept that Israel is there to stay, because it's not going anywhere. No, there's not going to be peace in the region because there's at least one group of people there who believe that they have a special right to exist there even though the Romans gave them the boot 2000 years ago... Quote Some of us on here appreciate a view OTHER than the standard conservative crap. Keep up the good work and heck, they have not banned me yet so you are safe Cheers! Drea
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 No, there's not going to be peace in the region because there's at least one group of people there who believe that they have a special right to exist there even though the Romans gave them the boot 2000 years ago... Perfect......since it's the biggest boot that counts, my money is on Israel! Nobody has the the right to land, but they do have the right to defend possession. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 If the US stopped sending Billions to Israel every year in cash and military equipment Israel would be gone in less than a year. Well, no because if you walk past any synogogue in this country every once and awhile you'll see large placards with appeals for money to support the state of Israel, and all that money would then go to buying arms from whomever is willing to sell, and there will always be people (countries) willing to sell weapons. Always. Quote Some of us on here appreciate a view OTHER than the standard conservative crap. Keep up the good work and heck, they have not banned me yet so you are safe Cheers! Drea
jbg Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Oh, yeah, that's really brilliant... now let's look at it this way:There will be no peace in the middle east. Unless of course there are no more Israels. How does that sound? I sincerely believe that if Israel lived up to your wishes and simply vanished, that the Arabs would be at each other's throats in no time. Look at Pakistan's illustrious history. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Why does everyone think that every little Muslim tribe that leaches off the UN is entitled to a land of its own but the Jews aren't? Why do you think that they are less entitled to land than Israel is. Israel was, after all, created in 1948... Quote Some of us on here appreciate a view OTHER than the standard conservative crap. Keep up the good work and heck, they have not banned me yet so you are safe Cheers! Drea
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Why do you think that they are less entitled to land than Israel is. Israel was, after all, created in 1948... Right...Israel has more international legitimacy than Canada or the United States. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Why do you think that they are less entitled to land than Israel is. Israel was, after all, created in 1948... The Jewish people were created far earlier. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
BC_chick Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Inanely hysterical much? Report him Kitchener, silencing through intimidation is wrong, not to mention against the rules of this forum. Criticism of Israel is not pro terror and nobody should be called a Nazi for speaking out against Israel. Heck, many Jews are doing the same thing. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 I sincerely believe that if Israel lived up to your wishes and simply vanished, that the Arabs would be at each other's throats in no time. Look at Pakistan's illustrious history. Well, I hope you're not equating Israel vanishing with the Jews being exterminated, which is what I think you are alluding to... simply put, the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 was a mistake, born out of issues resulting from WWII and with no real concern for the consequences--ie. the suffering of millions of people, both Arab and Jew. It's created tensions and conflicts that need not have happened had a more conciliatory approach been taken. So the Arabs would be at each others' throats, would they? Were they before 1948? It also seems a strange thing to say considering Israel was founded in part as a result of a war... Quote Some of us on here appreciate a view OTHER than the standard conservative crap. Keep up the good work and heck, they have not banned me yet so you are safe Cheers! Drea
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 The Jewish people were created far earlier. Well, I don't give a flying fuck... when a people "were created" doesn't entitle them to land that they LOST over 2000 years ago... Quote Some of us on here appreciate a view OTHER than the standard conservative crap. Keep up the good work and heck, they have not banned me yet so you are safe Cheers! Drea
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Right...Israel has more international legitimacy than Canada or the United States. Er, wrong... btw, the moon's not made out of cheese either... Quote Some of us on here appreciate a view OTHER than the standard conservative crap. Keep up the good work and heck, they have not banned me yet so you are safe Cheers! Drea
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Er, wrong... btw, the moon's not made out of cheese either... So you do support naked imperialism and aggression.....even on the Moon! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Well, I hope you're not equating Israel vanishing with the Jews being exterminated, which is what I think you are alluding to...Basically you nailed it.simply put, the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 was a mistake, born out of issues resulting from WWII and with no real concern for the consequences--ie. the suffering of millions of people, both Arab and Jew. It's created tensions and conflicts that need not have happened had a more conciliatory approach been taken.Put simply the area was almost uninhabited until the Zionists injected capital and economic organization to the area. The land was owned by absentee Ottoman landlords who were more or less indifferent to it. The Zionists purchased the land from the landowners. Neighboring Arabs, attracted by the development, most significantly irrigation, flocked in. Why does every argument of yours deny the Israelis the right to self-determination but grant it to every other bloodthirsty entity?So the Arabs would be at each others' throats, would they? Were they before 1948? It also seems a strange thing to say considering Israel was founded in part as a result of a war...Look at the misery of the surrounding countries. And frequent fighting. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 It's created tensions and conflicts that need not have happened had a more conciliatory approach been taken. So what's your solution, genius? So the Arabs would be at each others' throats, would they? Were they before 1948? It also seems a strange thing to say considering Israel was founded in part as a result of a war... Yes, they were. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Any reader of the Old Testament knows that even pre-Islam, the local wildlife Amalakites, Jebusites, Phillistines et. al. were harassing the Hebrews. They were also engaged in some massive debauchery such as sodomy (read Sodom and Gomorrah), human sacrifice, torturing of animals etc. My reading of the OT leads me to believe that GOD alone was responsible for the Hebrews defeating their enemies, and often times the Hebrews became apathetic towards GOD and started adopting pagan practices and engaging in a whole bunch of debaucheries themselves... so it's really a stupid argument, and the fact that you would refer to the non-Hebrews of the time as little more than animals seems like you've been reading more of Mein Kampf than the OT... Quote Some of us on here appreciate a view OTHER than the standard conservative crap. Keep up the good work and heck, they have not banned me yet so you are safe Cheers! Drea
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 So what's your solution, genius? how insufferably inane... I wouldn't even expect something to half-baked from an American... Quote Some of us on here appreciate a view OTHER than the standard conservative crap. Keep up the good work and heck, they have not banned me yet so you are safe Cheers! Drea
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 how insufferably inane... I wouldn't even expect something to half-baked from an American... Just as I suspected.....another pretender. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 My reading of the OT leads me to believe that GOD alone was responsible for the Hebrews defeating their enemies, and often times the Hebrews became apathetic towards GOD and started adopting pagan practices and engaging in a whole bunch of debaucheries themselves... so it's really a stupid argument, and the fact that you would refer to the non-Hebrews of the time as little more than animals seems like you've been reading more of Mein Kampf than the OT...I struck out "local wildlife" to emphasize the humanity of those people. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 So you do support naked imperialism and aggression.....even on the Moon! No, I like my imperialism to be clothed and civilized... Quote Some of us on here appreciate a view OTHER than the standard conservative crap. Keep up the good work and heck, they have not banned me yet so you are safe Cheers! Drea
BC_chick Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) So what's your solution, genius? I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I think Rosenberg nails the answer to this one: Some of Israel's most vocal supporters want us to forget that. They cling to the idea that "the world has always hated Israel" (and the Jews), rejecting as irrelevant the idea that Palestinian statelessness is at the root of the problem.They reject that fact because it suggests that Israel is in charge of its own destiny. It can determine where it stands in the eyes of the world, and especially the Arab world, by changing its relationship with the Palestinians. How do I know that? Because it happened once before. Following Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin's decision to recognize both the PLO and the Palestinians' right to a state in the West Bank and Gaza, nine non-Arab Muslim states and 32 of the 43 Sub-Saharan African states established relations with Israel. India and China, the two largest markets in the world, opened trade relations. Jordan signed a peace treaty and several of the emirates began quiet dealings with Israel. The Arab boycott ended. Foreign investment soared. Israel's isolation appeared to be over. The most graphic demonstration of Israel's changed international standing occurred at Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin's funeral in 1995, which rivaled President Kennedy's in terms of international representation. Leaders from virtually every nation on earth came to pay homage to Rabin. From President Clinton and Prince Charles to President Hosni Mubarak, King Hussein, and the leaders of every country in Europe, most of Africa and Asia (including India and China), Latin America, Turkey, Morocco, Mauritania, Oman, Qatar, and Tunisia. Yasir Arafat wept at Leah Rabin's apartment in Tel Aviv. The world mourned Rabin because under him, Israel had embraced the cause of peace with the Palestinians. The homage to Rabin was a clear demonstration--as was the opening of trade and diplomatic relations with formerly hostile states--that Israel was not being isolated because it is a Jewish state, but because of its conflict with the Palestinians. Once Rabin moved to end the conflict, he ended Israel's isolation as well. (If the problem was undying Jew-hatred, Rabin's opening to the Palestinians would not have affected Israel's standing). We need to remember this as the hard-liners insist that anti-Israel sentiment is unconnected with anything Israel does. That is simply not true. Even Ariel Sharon, hated more than any Israeli by most Arabs and Muslims, saw his image transformed overnight when he moved to relinquish Gaza. He actually received an ovation at the United Nations, leaving the old man in shock. According to Rosenberg, it all goes back to the 1967 borders. link I agree 100%. Edited January 3, 2009 by BC_chick Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Look at the misery of the surrounding countries. And frequent fighting. Yeah, it's the result of the same post-colonial mentality that gave rise to Israel, so... Quote Some of us on here appreciate a view OTHER than the standard conservative crap. Keep up the good work and heck, they have not banned me yet so you are safe Cheers! Drea
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