Are We Witnessing The Demise Of The Liberals?

[maplesyrup]

Martin is in a jam.

If the Liberals had their way they would call an election tomorrow, but can they, with the polling numbers showing the Bloc with such a large lead in Quebec?

Sometimes change takes place gradually, and sometimes not. I'm getting the feeling that we are not witnessing a gradual change here.

Look at the results in 1980 when Mulroney took power.

Progressive Conservative 211 seats, 50.03% of vote

Liberal 40 seats, 28.02% of vote

New Democratic Party 30 seats, 18.81% of vote

Other 1 seat, 3.12% of vote

The difference between the Liberals and the NDP was only 10 seats and 9% of the vote.

So monumental change is very possible.

Chantal Hebert said on RDI this afternoon that Harper's greatest asset in Ontario is the NDP"s Jack Layton, which confirms that the NDP is no longer going to be a minor player.

I am wondering if the results for the federalist parties in the next election is going to be:

First: Conservatives

Second: NDP

Third: Liberals

While they still lead in the latest opinion polls Across Canada as a whole, does anyone else here think that the Liberals may crash and burn in the next election?

[MapleLeafMerc]

I am wondering if the results for the federalist parties in the next election is going to be:

First: Conservatives

Second: NDP

Third: Liberals

While they still lead in the latest opinion polls Across Canada as a whole, does anyone else here think that the Liberals may crash and burn in the next election?

Yes, I think the Liberals just may crash in the next election. Paul Martin can blame Liberal corruption on the House of Commons janitor if he wants to, but this time I think the s**t is going to stick.

[August1991]

There is core Liberal support in Quebec, the Maritimes and Ontario. This will ensure the Liberals win more than the NDP.

Don't count the Liberals out just yet.

[joseph13]

If you think that look at your alternatives-The conservaties-They are even worse-They only look after there own Period-They do nothing for the People at all whatsoever __But tear down what we have built thus far in our Society-Look at the Damage they did in ONtario-When they were in office-We are still reeling from the effects-There influence is very real in the federal Conservaties Now-All the bad actors are there --Look at who was lined up for the Leadership Convention-Old Ontario hacks--They want to do it all over again-No Thanks-We seen what there all about.--At least with Liberals your going to get policies and Programs for the People and I'm not Loyal to any Political Stripe! Just look at your history and when Societies Cause were advanced and under what Parties was it all done_LIberals-Lets keep at least moving forward -We don't need the Conservatries taking us backwards again like they did in Ontario.------Joseph13---Thanks

[cgarrett]

more important for martin is how tied in with the current ruling class he is...

chretien was a close personal friend of isreal asper (who recently died). the billionaire asper family own every major news paper in the country, southam papers (of note, the national post) and most television stations (canwest global). in b.c. they own every major newspaper! they are responsible for a huge rise in conservative support in this country over the last decade especially, by dictating what/how news is covered in every media outlet that they control.

if you'd like more information on this corporate 'evil empire' do a search for canwest global at the canadian association of journalists:

www.caj.ca

here is a very informative article on how news events are manipulated by the media using language:

http://zena.secureforum.com/Znet/zmag/zart...97herman.htm%20

[maplesyrup]

cgarrett.......thanks for the media reference.

I was kind of hoping that this election would finally be the beginning of joe/jane Canadian taking their country back from the elites, the multinationals, etc.

I agree in some ways with Jack demanding PR referendum to prop up any government, but we need more, such as severe spending controls at election time.

[NDP Newbie]

cgarrett.......thanks for the media reference.

I was kind of hoping that this election would finally be the beginning of joe/jane Canadian taking their country back from the elites, the multinationals, etc.

I agree in some ways with Jack demanding PR referendum to prop up any government, but we need more, such as severe spending controls at election time.

Hasn't the election spending powers of both corporations and unions been significantly curtailed already?

[August1991]

here is a very informative article on how news events are manipulated by the media using language:

http://zena.secureforum.com/Znet/zmag/zart...97herman.htm%20

Thanks cgarret, I found the site amusing!

But the article is entirely premised on the assumption that people who read about the Guatemalan civil war are ninnies, or decide how to vote based on what they read.

You give far too little credit to the intelligence of the people you espouse to defend. But more important, most people (Canada or US) don't know where Guatemala is and few (if any) will cast their vote based on what happens there.

Ordinary people have a tendency of deciding in their own way what they think is important. They decide on their own how to vote. To say they are manipulated is demeaning, and wrong.

IMO, Americans have a strong tendency to vote according to whether they think their own life is good or not. Canadians vote more traditionally.

Sometimes I wish it were as easy as you suggest to manipulate people.

[maplesyrup]

Auust1991......wrong link

I agree very much in particular with the first paragraph, and these ideas certainly apply in Canada:

The mainstream media carry out their propaganda service on behalf of the corporate and political establishment in many ways: by choice of topics addressed (government rather than corporate abuses, welfare rather than Pentagon waste, Kadaffi rather than Guatemalan state terrorism), by their framing of issues (GDP growth rather than distribution, Fed policy effects on inflation and security prices rather than on unemployment), by their choice of sources of information (heavily depending on officials and think tank flacks), and by their use of language, among other practices.

http://zena.secureforum.com/Znet/zmag/zart...97herman.htm%20