Un-Canadian?

[Progressive Tory]

Just a while back there was one political party that went public with some pretty severe name calling. They accused an entire province of being 'Separatists' and un-Canadian and the 2,516,935 Canadians who voted NDP were 'Socialists' and 'undemocratic'. I have an email from one of their MPs who called Gilles Duceppe 'a Citizen of France.' Hmmm.

However, despite the fact that I voted Conservative most of my life, but am a Red Tory, I've been called a 'Leftie' so many times I'm thinking of taking up baseball. I'm voting for Michael Ignatieff because he is not a 'socialist' but is more in the centre, which is where I currently stand.

Also, I found out that CPC is actually the official acronym for the Communist Party of Canada. The new Reform/Alliance/Conservatives simply use CP. I made that mistake a lot until someone corrected me so I looked it up.

[reasonoverpassion]

Going back to the point of thread...

I think we need more civility in politics in general and scoiety in particular. The idea of inclusion needs to become a part of discourse in in order to move forward. A couple of non Canadian examples I think will suffice.

(1) Nicholas Sarkozy

Part of his success was to move away from the politics of ideology. He appointed a well known socialist as foreign minister Bernard Kouchner, the left-wing founder of Médecins Sans Frontières, who has proven to be very capable. Two other cabinet members are prominent socialists. Building coalition which transcend ideology and partisanship has been responsible for his success.

(2) Barrack Obama

"Not Red States, Not Blue States, but the United States of America" Obama's coaltion building skills have yet to be proven, but he is talking the talk. Look at who he has chosen to lead his inaugural invocation (a small but symbolic position)-- Rick Warren, one of the most prominent evangelicals in the USA.

Many liberals in the USA disapprove because Rev. Warren has been a very vocal supporter of "upholding the traditional definition of marriage" This is a sign that there will be much pressure from liberals on Obama to "do to them what they did to us for the past 8 years". We'll see how this plays out.

What needs to end is the idea that some people just don't matter. For those on this forum, people who live in downtown Toronto matter, people who live in Melrose SK matter, 90 year old and 19 year olds matter. We need to have politicans who want to represent the whole country and not just parts of it. The idea that if we just get 154 seats, or a majority of the seats in parliament, or a majority of the popular vote and we can do whatever we want, needs to go the way of the dodo.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Going back to the point of thread...

I think we need more civility in politics in general and scoiety in particular. The idea of inclusion needs to become a part of discourse in in order to move forward. A couple of non Canadian examples I think will suffice.

(1) Nicholas Sarkozy

Part of his success was to move away from the politics of ideology. He appointed a well known socialist as foreign minister Bernard Kouchner, the left-wing founder of Médecins Sans Frontières, who has proven to be very capable. Two other cabinet members are prominent socialists. Building coalition which transcend ideology and partisanship has been responsible for his success.

(2) Barrack Obama

"Not Red States, Not Blue States, but the United States of America" Obama's coaltion building skills have yet to be proven, but he is talking the talk. Look at who he has chosen to lead his inaugural invocation (a small but symbolic position)-- Rick Warren, one of the most prominent evangelicals in the USA.

Many liberals in the USA disapprove because Rev. Warren has been a very vocal supporter of "upholding the traditional definition of marriage" This is a sign that there will be much pressure from liberals on Obama to "do to them what they did to us for the past 8 years". We'll see how this plays out.

What needs to end is the idea that some people just don't matter. For those on this forum, people who live in downtown Toronto matter, people who live in Melrose SK matter, 90 year old and 19 year olds matter. We need to have politicans who want to represent the whole country and not just parts of it. The idea that if we just get 154 seats, or a majority of the seats in parliament, or a majority of the popular vote and we can do whatever we want, needs to go the way of the dodo.

I must say that I agree completely.

[Cameron]

Here in Halifax, we had our windows smashed by "people" that didn't agree with the CP during the election. The Liberals also had theirs smashed. The NDP went unscathed .

The NDP here gave us all their "sympathy" but didn't look at the fact that their HQ was fine and the group that most likely did it is very pro NDP and will probably be seen with them in the future when they have rallies or send their agenda up to Ottawa.

We run an election with dignity and debate other candidates. We hold our tongue when the hippies (for a better lack of a word) open their mouths and start yelling at us. It's always been a one-way street when it comes to being part of politics down here. We get our signs defaced, windows smashed, and cussed. We tell our members to be courteous and don't feed on their emotions.

EDIT - It may not be the same around Canada but this type of attitude makes me despise the NDP because "the crazy-left-wing-nut-bag group" tends to gravitate towards them.

Edited December 30, 2008 by Cameron

[Progressive Tory]

Here in Halifax, we had our windows smashed by "people" that didn't agree with the CP during the election. The Liberals also had theirs smashed. The NDP went unscathed .

The NDP here gave us all their "sympathy" but didn't look at the fact that their HQ was fine and the group that most likely did it is very pro NDP and will probably be seen with them in the future when they have rallies or send their agenda up to Ottawa.

We run an election with dignity and debate other candidates. We hold our tongue when the hippies (for a better lack of a word) open their mouths and start yelling at us. It's always been a one-way street when it comes to being part of politics down here. We get our signs defaced, windows smashed, and cussed. We tell our members to be courteous and don't feed on their emotions.

EDIT - It may not be the same around Canada but this type of attitude makes me despise the NDP because "the crazy-left-wing-nut-bag group" tends to gravitate towards them.

See again with the name calling. I like Obama's 'not red states, not blue states, but the United States'. Much of Harper's success came about by polarizing Canadians on hot button issues. During the recent Parliamentary crisis he once again polarized Canadians by defining all non-Conservatives as Separatists and Socialists, empowering radicals from all political stripes. Someone suggested to me that the Coalition should have included the Conservatives. However, that was the Prime Minister's job, to earn the right to govern by including the 62% of Canadians who did not vote for him. He failed. He is not a leader and must be replaced.

To the original topic, the political climate has been set by a PM determined to divide and conquer. Passions have been ignited and sometimes it gets out of hand. However, name calling is not unique to the right or the left. I've learned to ignore it and sometimes even relish it because it means I've hit a nerve and hopefully, provoked thought.

[Argus]

EDIT - It may not be the same around Canada but this type of attitude makes me despise the NDP because "the crazy-left-wing-nut-bag group" tends to gravitate towards them.

There is a significant portion of the Left which is very shrill in its contempt for "conservatives" et all, and most especially the evil Stephen Harper. Jack Layton is said to absolutely despise Harper with a hatred that knows no logic. He can't even say his name without adding a variety of pejorative terms, and winds up practically frothing at the mouth if he goes on very long.

If no cameras are present, of course.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

There are nutbars everywhere, I call then extremists. They don't come from any single direction, they just seem to appear our of nowhere. Its a partisan political disease often used in covert manner just to stir up trouble.

[Cameron]

I noticed the negativity in 2003 when the CP ran in their first election. So it wasn't something new.

[Black Dog]

There is a significant portion of the Left which is very shrill in its contempt for "conservatives" et all, and most especially the evil Stephen Harper.

And this is in no way a two-way street, eh wot?

Jack Layton is said to absolutely despise Harper with a hatred that knows no logic. He can't even say his name without adding a variety of pejorative terms, and winds up practically frothing at the mouth if he goes on very long.

If no cameras are present, of course.

That's interesting. I heard Harper smacks Laureen in the gob and kicks the family dog whenever he sees Dion on TV.

If no cameras are present, of course.

[reasonoverpassion]

Within the CPC sadly there are tendencies toward the type of divide and conquer politics that were first started in the USA by Lee Atwater and later perfected by Karl Rove.

If you want to to watch a facinating documentary on Atwater watch "Boogie Man: The Lee Atwater Story" if you can. Its a part of PBS Frontline series, and is a facinating look into Realpolitik practiced by a master of the art. It is also a fasicnating biography.

The CPC has unquestionably borrowed some of these tactics from Republicans as well as the Australian Liberals

[ToadBrother]

There is a significant portion of the Left which is very shrill in its contempt for "conservatives" et all, and most especially the evil Stephen Harper. Jack Layton is said to absolutely despise Harper with a hatred that knows no logic. He can't even say his name without adding a variety of pejorative terms, and winds up practically frothing at the mouth if he goes on very long.

If no cameras are present, of course.

That may be true, but political rivalries that turn into deep hatred are nothing new. Look at Paul Martin and Jean Chretien, or for a real all-out battle of political titans, Disraeli and Gladstone. Disraeli is said to have regarded Gladstone as a foaming fanatic, and Gladstone in turn loathed Disraeli.

[Progressive Tory]

Within the CPC sadly there are tendencies toward the type of divide and conquer politics that were first started in the USA by Lee Atwater and later perfected by Karl Rove.

If you want to to watch a facinating documentary on Atwater watch "Boogie Man: The Lee Atwater Story" if you can. Its a part of PBS Frontline series, and is a facinating look into Realpolitik practiced by a master of the art. It is also a fasicnating biography.

The CPC has unquestionably borrowed some of these tactics from Republicans as well as the Australian Liberals

I'll have to watch for that. My library has some good documentaries on DVD that they loan out. Maybe they'll have a copy. Thanks.

[Progressive Tory]

There is a significant portion of the Left which is very shrill in its contempt for "conservatives" et all, and most especially the evil Stephen Harper. Jack Layton is said to absolutely despise Harper with a hatred that knows no logic. He can't even say his name without adding a variety of pejorative terms, and winds up practically frothing at the mouth if he goes on very long.

If no cameras are present, of course.

And Stephen Harper said that the NDP are proof that the Devil exists, so go figure. Oh, and let's not forget the 'Poopin' Puffin'. Doesn't get more personal or ugly than that.