Nursing groups decry Ontario decision

[jdobbin]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/200...ont-nurses.html

Two nursing groups are critical of the province's decision to delay the hiring of 9,000 nurses.

The hiring announcement was made Wednesday as part of Ontario's restraint initiative. In his economic statement, Finance Minister Dwight Duncan said the province will run a deficit of $500 million this year.

The province earlier promised to hire the nurses over four years. Now it says it will spread it over five years, saving $50 million this year.

Catherine Mayers, who sits on the board of the Registered Nurses' Association of Ontario, says the move may have a disastrous effect.

And so it begins.

I can't disagree that the delay is going to hurt the healthcare system in Ontario. Many nurses are nearing retirement and there are going to be growing gaps.

And still Ontario will run a deficit. We are going to see more of these type of cuts.

Edited October 23, 2008 by jdobbin

[drewski]

maybe there would have been more money for those new nurses if the union hadn't demanded a lump sum payment (~3.7% of salary) on top of the average 3.18%/year pay raises in the last contract

[jdobbin]

maybe there would have been more money for those new nurses if the union hadn't demanded a lump sum payment (~3.7% of salary) on top of the average 3.18%/year pay raises in the last contract

Think that is what the government felt was necessary to keep the nurses that were working to stay in the job. Skills such as nursing are easily transferable. If you want to see a steady stream of nursing leaving, retiring or just leaving the workplace, do what was done in the 1990s.

Provinces are fighting over nurses and doctors as demand rises. Most of the shortages started in the 1990s with cuts.

Now, the government can cut again if they wish but everyone should remember there is a price. It is hallway medicine.

Edited October 24, 2008 by jdobbin

[Mr.Canada]

Think that is what the government felt was necessary to keep the nurses that were working to stay in the job. Skills such as nursing as easily transferable. If you want to see a steady stream of nursing leaving, retiring or just leaving the workplace, do what was done in the 1990s.

Provinces are fighting over nurses and doctors as demand rises. Most of the shortages started in the 1990s with cuts.

Now, the government can cut again if they wish but everyone should remember there is a price. It is hallway medicine.

We need more nurses and doctors for our system to succeed. I'd also like to see more hospitals, or clinics with nurses and doctors that can the strain off our hospitals and the ER.

[jdobbin]

We need more nurses and doctors for our system to succeed. I'd also like to see more hospitals, or clinics with nurses and doctors that can the strain off our hospitals and the ER.

I doubt you'll see more hospitals built that haven't been announced already. They are generally too expensive already.

Most provinces have increased the amount of doctors and nurses. We are now seeing the first announcements of slowing down.

[Argus]

I can't disagree that the delay is going to hurt the healthcare system in Ontario. Many nurses are nearing retirement and there are going to be growing gaps.

And still Ontario will run a deficit. We are going to see more of these type of cuts.

Why? You have often decried the free spending ways of the federal tories. The provincial liberals have been far more profligate. Program spending is up over 50% in the last four years. As are taxes, clearly, to pay for all that new spending. Could it not be said that if the Mcguinty Liberals had not been spending like drunken sailors for the last four years they wouldn't need to run deficits now?

[Topaz]

Does anyone realize how many nurses travel across the border and work in the US?? I asked one nurse that did that and she said for the money? Outside of the truckers I think its safe to say the nurses are the next largest group acrossing the border especially in Windsor.

[jdobbin]

Why? You have often decried the free spending ways of the federal tories. The provincial liberals have been far more profligate. Program spending is up over 50% in the last four years. As are taxes, clearly, to pay for all that new spending. Could it not be said that if the Mcguinty Liberals had not been spending like drunken sailors for the last four years they wouldn't need to run deficits now?

I don't live in Ontario but from what I've heard they have spent pretty freely and should be cutting.

They never should have let the situation reach the the point where spending rose above the increase in population and rate of inflation.

[Argus]

I don't live in Ontario but from what I've heard they have spent pretty freely and should be cutting.

They never should have let the situation reach the the point where spending rose above the increase in population and rate of inflation.

Well they don't intend any cutting. McGuinty was at pains to reassure his people of that and is quoted this morning thusly:

"The truth is, we're not going to grow our expenditures as quickly as we have in the past. I call that restraint; some other folks might call it a cut."

[Argus]

Does anyone realize how many nurses travel across the border and work in the US?? I asked one nurse that did that and she said for the money? Outside of the truckers I think its safe to say the nurses are the next largest group acrossing the border especially in Windsor.

It's a combination of things with nurses, including insanely stupid work hours without the security of full time work, and a lack of nursing spaces in local coleges and universities.

[jdobbin]

Well they don't intend any cutting. McGuinty was at pains to reassure his people of that and is quoted this morning thusly:

"The truth is, we're not going to grow our expenditures as quickly as we have in the past. I call that restraint; some other folks might call it a cut."

Sounds like the deficit is going to be a lot higher if they don't cut back more.

[madmax]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/200...ont-nurses.html

And so it begins.

I can't disagree that the delay is going to hurt the healthcare system in Ontario. Many nurses are nearing retirement and there are going to be growing gaps.

And still Ontario will run a deficit. We are going to see more of these type of cuts.

The Ontario Liberals increased spending from 67billion to 97Billion IIRC. There is nothing to show for it in terms of Health Care and nursing. However, there are lots of people on the government payroll clearing $100,000 since the OLP took office that both the PC and NDP believe need this salaries are in need of review.

[madmax]

Why? You have often decried the free spending ways of the federal tories. The provincial liberals have been far more profligate. Program spending is up over 50% in the last four years. As are taxes, clearly, to pay for all that new spending. Could it not be said that if the Mcguinty Liberals had not been spending like drunken sailors for the last four years they wouldn't need to run deficits now?

The Liberals have spent alot of money in these good times. I do not believe they are prepared for what is coming down the pipes.

However, it is clear to me the CPC have wasted huge surpluses. While the Liberals spent like drunken sailors, you shouldn't bring up the Federal Tories.

They have frittered away huge surpluses.

[jdobbin]

The Ontario Liberals increased spending from 67billion to 97Billion IIRC. There is nothing to show for it in terms of Health Care and nursing. However, there are lots of people on the government payroll clearing $100,000 since the OLP took office that both the PC and NDP believe need this salaries are in need of review.

Cut them.

[Argus]

The Liberals have spent alot of money in these good times. I do not believe they are prepared for what is coming down the pipes.

However, it is clear to me the CPC have wasted huge surpluses. While the Liberals spent like drunken sailors, you shouldn't bring up the Federal Tories.

They have frittered away huge surpluses.

The difference is, the Tories "frittered away" their surpluses by cutting taxes. Ultimately, that leaves them room to raise taxes again if necessary. The Liberals have been raising taxes steadily all along, while steadily increasing spending. There isn't much room left now to raise taxes in Ontario They're already too high.

Plus, a lot of what the Tories have been buying are one-time items for the military, for example, or for infrastructure. The Provincial Liberals have been spending their big increases in bigger salaries for public servants, health care workers and teachers, and in enlarging and enriching various programs. That makes it far harder to cut back or delay spending.

And for all the Liberals have increased program spending by more than 50%, there has been no noticeable improvement in health care, or in the quality of our roads, or in policing. Nor has there been any apparent improvement in the numbers of those in poverty or the homeless.

Edited October 25, 2008 by Argus

[Brunopolis]

It's so easy to solve our health care problems. Just open the doors to medical schools and reduce the requirements severely to enter. If someone can pass the exam requirements then they deserve to be in that position. Plain and simple. Completely ignore those complaining about too much medical staff being around. We have an excess of lawyers, teachers, and many many other professions. Why not doctors and nurses?

In Uruguay(where I am from originally) anybody that graduates High School can attempt to become a doctor or nurse. Some can make it and some can't. Uruguay has a surplus of medical staff and doesn't have to pay them obscene salaries. Those that don't like it leave to other countries and the quality of the professionals here is pretty much the same. I've been to hospitals in Uruguay and the wait time is even less than those in Canada.

[Argus]

Sounds like the deficit is going to be a lot higher if they don't cut back more.

Ontario is in talks with over half its public sector unions on wage increases at this moment. What the government has already offered just to public teachers alone - not counting Catholic and French teachers - would add $2.5 billion per year to its costs - and thus to its yearly deficit. That's without taking into account any reduction in expected taxation income due to a slowing economy. But the provincial Liberals seem to be without any plan, ideas, or even, honestly, any concerns about this.

Ontario's Labour Costs Soaring

[jdobbin]

Ontario is in talks with over half its public sector unions on wage increases at this moment. What the government has already offered just to public teachers alone - not counting Catholic and French teachers - would add $2.5 billion per year to its costs - and thus to its yearly deficit. That's without taking into account any reduction in expected taxation income due to a slowing economy. But the provincial Liberals seem to be without any plan, ideas, or even, honestly, any concerns about this.

It's too bad that the Opposition seemed determined to find new ways to spend money themselves rather than promoting fiscal conservatism.

Sadly, whatever government is in place will have to find ways to cut spending or risk watching the deficit spiral out of control.