Isn't it time to slow down immigration?

[wulf42]

I say Merry Christmas to everyone I deal with and call it a Christmas tree. I don't care who it offends, these people are guests in my country and I won't be made to feel guilty for favoring tradition to sanitized secularism.

Same here .....imagine if we went to other countries and told them we are offended by Islam and they should stop practicing it..they would likely behead you on the spot................the way i look at it if you come to Canada you live by our traditions...............otherwise GET OUT and STAY OUT!

[Sir Bandelot]

Same here .....imagine if we went to other countries and told them we are offended by Islam and they should stop practicing it..they would likely behead you on the spot................the way i look at it if you come to Canada you live by our traditions...............otherwise GET OUT and STAY OUT!

Or else what... you will behead them on the spot? Same old same old

[Smallc]

Or else what... you will behead them on the spot? Same old same old

Exactly. Often people don't understand the irony of their statements.

[Mr.Canada]

Or else what... you will behead them on the spot? Same old same old

That is absurd. I can see you support Sharia LAw but we real Canadians do not.

[Sir Bandelot]

That is absurd. I can see you support Sharia LAw but we real Canadians do not.

No I don't, and I don't bite your baited hooks.

But its a typical response of the small-minded: "You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists".

Sorry, neither.

[Sir Bandelot]

That is absurd. I can see you support Sharia LAw but we real Canadians do not.

No I don't, and I don't bite your baited hooks.

But its a typical response of the small-minded: "You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists".

Sorry, neither.

[Mr.Canada]

Same here .....imagine if we went to other countries and told them we are offended by Islam and they should stop practicing it..they would likely behead you on the spot................the way i look at it if you come to Canada you live by our traditions...............otherwise GET OUT and STAY OUT!

Well said. We bend over backwards to be tolerant yet it's never enough. I and many Canadians agree. Their countries wouldn't change to tolerate us so why should we? Because of white liberal guilt stick we are constantly beaten with. We are handing our country over and the foreigners are laughing at our laws and laughing at the free health care and medicine we give them. They are laughing at the way we treat traditional Canadians as second class citizens while we give the foreigners everything while inciting self hatred in traditional Canadians.

[Sir Bandelot]

Well said. We bend over backwards to be tolerant yet it's never enough. I and many Canadians agree. Their countries wouldn't change to tolerate us so why should we?

"Their countries wouldn't change to tolerate us so why should we?"

Exactly, two wrongs make a right. This statement and the earlier one show exactly why, intolerant factions in Canada are really no different than the ones in islamic countries, only by varying degrees. In thruth its you who support sharia law, or some parts of it anyway.

Right is always right, not copying the errors of those who oppose us!

You guys remind me of that BBC documentary,"The Power of Nightmares", the one that shows the similarity between fundamental islamic ideology and the ideology of the Straussian neocons.

"We treat traditional Canadians as second class citizens while we give the foreigners everything while inciting self hatred in traditional Canadians."

Not true! I and many others will always defend freedom and tolerance, whether it is threatened by radical islamicists or back woods red necks. Because in many ways they are one and the same, and we who defend ARE the real traditional Canadians.

Edited November 3, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

[Mr.Canada]

"Their countries wouldn't change to tolerate us so why should we?"

Exactly, two wrongs make a right. This statement and the earlier one show exactly why, intolerant factions in Canada are really no different than the ones in islamic countries, only by varying degrees. In thruth its you who support sharia law, or some parts of it anyway.

Right is always right, not copying the errors of those who oppose us!

You guys remind me of that BBC documentary,"The Power of Nightmares", the one that shows the similarity between fundamental islamic ideology and the ideology of the Straussian neocons.

"We treat traditional Canadians as second class citizens while we give the foreigners everything while inciting self hatred in traditional Canadians."

Not true! I and many others will always defend freedom and tolerance, whether it is threatened by radical islamicists or back woods red necks. Because in many ways they are one and the same, and we who defend ARE the real traditional Canadians.

Sorry I have yet to hear of a traditional Canadian burying another Canadian up to the neck then throwing stones at their head until they die. Islamic nations do this for such great criminal acts as being raped, being a homosexual, being in a sexual relationship out of wedlock or being of another religion other than Islam, speaking ones mind against Islam(Salman Rushdie), converting from Islam to another religion.

If we are doing this across the backwoods of Canada I'd like a cite of that please.

[Griz]

You still haven't defined what Canadian Culture is? How can you make the argument that one has to assimilate if the whole notion of what they are assimilating into is an abstract thought from some self-centered enthnocentric. I was serious when I asked that you to "try" and define what Canada is in a paragraph (The elevator ride example) I'II Bet Mr Canada can't do it

[Mr.Canada]

You still haven't defined what Canadian Culture is? How can you make the argument that one has to assimilate if the whole notion of what they are assimilating into is an abstract thought from some self-centered enthnocentric. I was serious when I asked that you to "try" and define what Canada is in a paragraph (The elevator ride example) I'II Bet Mr Canada can't do it

When I speak of traditional Canadians I am speaking of Canadians of British or at least western European descent. It is these people better fit the idea of what Canada was meant to be when formed which cannot be argued as many countries were barred from entering Canada to live. That is the bar that new Canadians should be trying to live up to. So when I say assimilate, this is what is meant. Live, dress and act like Canadians of British descent to blend in. Forming ethnic ghettos remaining separate from traditional Canadians isn't helping them integrate into the social fabric.If the hell holes they escaped from were really that bad you'd figure they'd be willing to cast off their oppressive ways and embrace western life. However the second generation of ethnic Canadians are showing promise and the young ones are shunning their traditional dress which is encouraging.

Yeah I'm well aware you are baiting me as I'm sure you think this isn't pc and I don't really care much for that. I don't buy into white liberal guilt as many have been duped into believing.

Edited November 3, 2008 by Mr.Canada

[Griz]

When I speak of traditional Canadians I am speaking of Canadians of British or at least western European descent. It is these people better fit the idea of what Canada was meant to be when formed which cannot be argued as many countries were barred from entering Canada to live. That is the bar that new Canadians should be trying to live up to. So when I say assimilate, this is what is meant. Live, dress and act like Canadians of British descent to blend in. Forming ethnic ghettos remaining separate from traditional Canadians isn't helping them integrate into the social fabric.If the hell holes they escaped from were really that bad you'd figure they'd be willing to cast off their oppressive ways and embrace western life. However the second generation of ethnic Canadians are showing promise and the young ones are shunning their traditional dress which is encouraging.

Yeah I'm well aware you are baiting me as I'm sure you think this isn't pc and I don't really care much for that. I don't buy into white liberal guilt as many have been duped into believing.

Why SHould it be of British Descent? What about the French? The Aboriginal People? The NEwfies and all the others that make up the fabric of Canadian Society? If Mr Canda uses a kayak and hunts seals, does this mean that he is assimilated as an Inuit? :

[Hcheh]

lol.....your probably right......but i still miss the old days!!

ha, don't we all

[Hcheh]

Why SHould it be of British Descent? What about the French? The Aboriginal People? The NEwfies and all the others that make up the fabric of Canadian Society? If Mr Canda uses a kayak and hunts seals, does this mean that he is assimilated as an Inuit? :

I agree, "Canadian culture" should not be by British decent. It is an accumulation of various western and, in some parts of the country, native cultures. We are totally autonomous, politically, economically (well, it is hard to say that anybody is really..but you get it), and even socially. We are the Canadians, not the British. Ultimately, we value democracy, values of the Commonwealth (Harare principles) and Constitutional rights. When it comes to running a country, these ideals should be above all, above Islamic beliefs, Christian beliefs, Jewish beliefs.. or whatever. Of course, you can have complete freedom regarding what you want to believe in, that is the beauty of a westernized democratic and constitutional country. After all, the relationship between a man and his God lies within his own responsibility, let's keep it that way.

[Mr.Canada]

Why SHould it be of British Descent? What about the French? The Aboriginal People? The NEwfies and all the others that make up the fabric of Canadian Society? If Mr Canda uses a kayak and hunts seals, does this mean that he is assimilated as an Inuit? :

As it says western European which includes France. The Newfies are of British descent and was a colony of England up until 1949 when they joined the Confederation.

The Natives are assimilated as is obvious by the number of Native people in the Commons.

As the last question asks, yes it would. If I moved to the arctic why would I suggest that the Inuit need to be like southerners and not hunt seals and game, they need to hunt to live and feed their families. I would need to learn the Inuit ways or I would not be successful and wouldn't be accepted into the Inuit community. The same should apply to newcomers to Canada.

I for one am appalled at the conditions the First Nation peoples are forced to live in and the reserves need real attention. However the way we currently hand out cash isn't working and the money isn't getting to the people who most need it. This is for another thread.

[Hcheh]

I remember the flicker of sadness and anticipation at the smell of a chill autumn breeze at night which carried with it the certain coming of winter. I remember the foretelling of spring in the warm March sun which lit the winter landscape and the sight of ice melting along the edges of the sidewalks. I remember my delight at the first sight of trickling water, the first few bits of grass beginning to show. I remember the scent of wood smoke on a cool evening night, the smell and sounds of a neighborhood arena on a Saturday morning, the chill of the water during an early morning swimming lesson. I remember the sun rising over the trees at the cottage, and the absolute darkness of the night save for the moon glowing on the river.

I remember the feel of ice under my skates as I tried to keep my ankles steady, and the race down the sideline of a soccer field trying to keep up with the ball. I remember the magic and wonder of a shopping mall. I remember the anticipation of school, the anxiety on the first day, the discomfort and special smell of new clothes. I remember following parades in the summer, keeping up with the bands. I remember throwing my books away on the last day of school, and walking home, joyously knowing I had almost literally forever before school started again. I remember racing the clock, running from house to house on Halloween night. I remember fireworks on Victoria Day, and the lazy, sleepy Dominion Day holiday which was celebrated in typical Canadian fashion by doing not much of anything, and the way we quietly looked down on those loud, brash Americans for all their howling national bombast with face painting and flag waving and fairs and guns and super patriotism.

I remember half crippling myself carting a giant pumpkin home that was almost as big as me. I remember the joy of spotting the first Christmas decorations put out in the shopping mall - in very late November. I remember holding my hands together in church, feeling a bit awkward, and terribly bored. I remember being on the road with my parents, and the fascination of every new mile of grass and cows and run-down trailer parks. I remember the delight of hotels, with elevators you could ride up and down – and up and down – and up and down in. They had real ice, too, just down the hall, and it was FREE. I remember throwing up at the Exhibition after eating too much and going on a fast ride. I remember wandering along the river skipping stones. I remember building a tree house in the woods. I remember building a skating rink in the back yard, building snow men, snow forts, and a snow house, snowball fights. I remember the thrill of racing down a long hill on a toboggan, and jumping off a high fence to land in a deep snow bank.

I remember standing in line in the gymnasium in front of the number which represented my school bus, or at least, hoping it was my school bus. I remember school picture day. I remember freezing my ass off at recess in the winter when it was forty below, trying to shield from the wind in a narrow doorway. I remember the satisfaction of body checking someone and having them fall down. I remember summer nights and cars, and girls, and baseball analogies, if you take my meaning. I remember Jarry Park at night, with the Expos clobbering the Mets. I remember my first subway ride alone. I remember my father teaching me to drive, and being horrified at very lightly scraping the side of a car as I backed out of a parking space. I remember the theme music from Expo 67. I remember how the theme for the Stanley Cup Playoffs used to thrill me – every game. I remember the woods, the quiet, the heat, the bugs, the feel of water on my paddle. I remember taunting the dog, having it chase me, chasing it back. I remember contempt for those poor guys who only had cats. I remember the excitement of thanksgiving dinner, the awe and anticipation of Christmas eve, the joy of Christmas morning. I remember chocolate bunnies at Easter, and that funny old-people smell when visiting grandparents houses. I remember whole mornings and afternoons devoted to colouring and cutting out santas, and Christmas trees, and elves, and candy canes at school. I remember amazement that the band actually sounded pretty good at the Christmas concert, and the choir wasn’t half bad either. I remember the first sight of colour on a television.

I remember Saturday movies with my brother and friends. I remember amazement at all those tall buildings downtown. I remember hide and seek, pickup football, and long, lazy summer evenings wandering suburban streets with my friends, getting into very mild trouble, and thinking we were cool. I remember my first job, at a self service gas bar. I remember being fired from my first job at a self service gas bar. I remember my first television, twelve inchs, B&W, which I bought with my first and only cheque from my first job. I remember New years eve, babysitting, working at a club, partying. I remember seeing how high I could make my bike jump, and hot summer days when I drank an entire coke non-stop after riding a long distance. I remember school trips to upper Canada village, to a cottage resort, to museums and maple syrup runs and parliament hill. I remember seeing how late I could stay out without my parents yelling for me, how late I could stay up without my parents yelling at me, how late I could sleep in without my father overturning my bed. I remember waiting to be wakened on a school day – when it snowed – watching each minute tick by and hoping against hope nobody came in – which meant it was a snow day!

I remember the vast disappointment when my mother rushed in to say she’d slept in and demand I hurry up and get ready. I remember being very careful not to say anything that would tick off my father, who was very scary despite never, to my memory, hitting me, except maybe a very rare cuff to the back of the head. I remember firecrackers.

I remember eagerly waiting for Thursday, which was, coincidentally, allowance day and the day the new comics came out at the corner store. I remember camp fires, and the smell of burned hot dogs. I remember camp songs, and sleeping in a cottage or tent with a half dozen other boys. I remember the bad food in the mess hall. I remember getting to ride a horse. I remember riding in the back of my dad’s station wagon down the highway, staring at the cars behind us. I remember moving into a new house in a new city, with everything so – new. I remember building a hideout in the basement, and my delight when the basement flooded, stomping around in the water, and not caring that it smelled a little. I remember Dairy Queen ice cream cones in the summer, beaver tails in the winter. I remember Flintstones every day at lunch, Brady Bunch, Bewitched and Gilligans Island after school. I remember how great it was to be just too sick to go to school, but without pain or real discomfort.

I remember the mustiness and mystery of an old attic. I remember the library every Sunday, and taking out all those Hardy Boys and Famous Five books. I remember walking on train tracks as the train approached. I remember the thunder as it crossed a tiny bridge over an old creek – from underneath. I remember GI Joe dolls, and my sister’s Barbies, Tonka construction trucks, Matchbox cars with an entire case to carry them. I remember flipping baseball and hockey cards with my friends, winning more than I lost. I remember Crystal Beach, and La Ronde, Niagara Falls, and Frontier Town. I remember visiting family, staying in my cousins’ room on a cot, the pool his family had. I remember visiting the House of Commons and showing my pass to the guards. I remember how big and impressive everything was, and how green the House was, and how amazing it was to see all those people in person I’d seen on my TV for so long. I remember the guard confiscating the sheathed hunting knife on my belt with a genial smile, promising he’d look after it for me till I got out. I remember voting for the first time, at 18, and determining I would never be one of those people who didn’t bother to vote.

I remember all this and more, and all this and more is what makes me who I am. And all this and more and less is what I share with many, many, many Canadians who grew up in this country, living much the same lives, with some variation, in subtly different ways, learning the same lessons from family and school, experiencing the same experiences, feeling the same joys and fears and sorrows and hopes and dreams and thoughts. And in all of that we were alone but in all of that we were together, because while we were all different, we were pretty much the same, so that others joked about how polite we were, and how clean we were, and how we’d obediently, if a bit restless at times, stand at quiet street corners waiting for the light to turn green, even though there wasn’t a car in sight. We were solid, through and through, self reliant and proud, but quietly so. We knew there were other countries, because we were bored silly in Geography class every day, but we didn’t really care about them, or think about them. We were Canadians, with an amazing degree of confidence in ourselves and our country, and that was all the world that really mattered to us

"I remember waiting to be wakened on a school day – when it snowed – watching each minute tick by and hoping against hope nobody came in – which meant it was a snow day!"

LOL!! This post speaks the truth..

Seriously, great post.. Gotta love Canada.

Unfortunately however, maybe we are losing the overly polite and clean attitude.. but maybe and hopefully, that is just how it is in Toronto.

[Hcheh]

As it says western European which includes France. The Newfies are of British descent and was a colony of England up until 1949 when they joined the Confederation.

The Natives are assimilated as is obvious by the number of Native people in the Commons.

As the last question asks, yes it would. If I moved to the arctic why would I suggest that the Inuit need to be like southerners and not hunt seals and game, they need to hunt to live and feed their families. I would need to learn the Inuit ways or I would not be successful and wouldn't be accepted into the Inuit community. The same should apply to newcomers to Canada.

I for one am appalled at the conditions the First Nation peoples are forced to live in and the reserves need real attention. However the way we currently hand out cash isn't working and the money isn't getting to the people who most need it. This is for another thread.

With regards to the on-going conversation about the religious shpeel.. While I completely, wholeheartedly agree with you on the fact that the immigrants should successfully assimilate, I don't think that being "Christian" is something is in the criteria. We have values and such that transcend religious differences..etc.

[wulf42]

Or else what... you will behead them on the spot? Same old same old

Did i say anything about beheading?????????................we should deny them entry into the country............if your not going to live by our customs and traditions then you should stay in a country that does practice those customs and traditions.........not come to my country and try to change values and customs we Canadians hold so valuable.....the Liberals have destroyed this country, they created the enviroment that Mr Canada spoke of....self hatred...while promoting accepting values for other cultures while disgarding our own...............LIBERALS NEVER AGAIN!

Edited November 3, 2008 by wulf42

[craiger]

Did i say anything about beheading?????????................we should deny them entry into the country............if your not going to live by our customs and traditions then you should stay in a country that does practice those customs and traditions.........not come to my country and try to change values and customs we Canadians hold so valuable.....the Liberals have destroyed this country, they created the enviroment that Mr Canada spoke of....self hatred...while promoting accepting values for other cultures while disgarding our own...............LIBERALS NEVER AGAIN!

your wrong praise ALLA! I have more rights than you do and I can prove it. What you going to do about it! jack squat get in line with the rest of the sheep we own you!!

[Mr.Canada]

your wrong praise ALLA! I have more rights than you do and I can prove it. What you going to do about it! jack squat get in line with the rest of the sheep we own you!!

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]

You have been reported.

[Argus]

No I don't, and I don't bite your baited hooks.

But its a typical response of the small-minded: "You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists".

Sorry, neither.

Excuse me but.... neither? You're saying you refuse to support either us or ... terrorists?

[Argus]

"Their countries wouldn't change to tolerate us so why should we?"

Exactly, two wrongs make a right. This statement and the earlier one show exactly why, intolerant factions in Canada are really no different than the ones in islamic countries, only by varying degrees.

That's a pretty absurd and meaningless statement. Varying degrees? Uhm, yeah.

[Sir Bandelot]

Let me try to explain for you Argus, using a different example. If I see two bad guys and they are fighting each other, who should I cheer on?

Or in terms of the Bush doctrine vs. AlQaeda, who do I support. Certainly not the terrorists. But also not the ruthless ones who use war to prop up their corporations, who make deals with corrupt foreign governments while ordinary people gets screwed. They helped create AlQaeda, by their injustice. And their solution to the problem, is further injustice.

Canada is not exempt from that criticism, I might add.

I have read some world history, and it is a mountain of blood. And I know that will not change, or if it ever does, it wil not be not by these means as they continue the same for thousands of years. So I reject outright those who involve themselves in the same old forms of conflict. Such harsh intolerance as expressed by the poster is just another part of the problem.

Edited November 3, 2008 by Sir Bandelot

[Hcheh]

Such harsh intolerance as expressed by the poster is just another part of the problem.

Yes, we shouldn't fight this fire with another fire; we are better than that

[Argus]

Yes, we shouldn't fight this fire with another fire; we are better than that

I subscribe to the Kill-em-all-and-let-God-sort-em-out school of firefighting.