What the Liberal Party did to Canada

Argus · October 11, 2008

Economics is not rocket science. Governments require taxes from Incomes and taxes on purchasing and property.

You clearly don't understand what an economy is. You're talking about government budgets as if that was the economy.

The middleman is the jerkoff corporation/business. If governments slipp into recession or deficit it is because corporations/businesses have gotten over greedy and exploitative in their practices

.

Uhm, okay, comrade. That must be it. Except that as you have no idea what an economy is how do you expect us to accept your simplistic world view about what causes recessions - which is another term you don't seem to understand.

Argus · October 11, 2008

What argument is that?

The argument that things were fine and rosey in 2004 when the Liberals were in power and now they're not cause the Tories are in power.

Kitch · October 11, 2008

Life is all about choices. Life is an experience to be realized through those choices made. In our modern times those choices have been determined to belong to the individual not the group and certainly not the government. Governments, that is organized administration for groups are the root cause of nearly all of our problems. The only solution to those self created and imposed problems is to reform governments in order to provide the empowerment of citizens through the exercise of free choice.
If we desire to advance the social evolution of mankind we need to realize the significance of the individual. The individual is the paramount consideration for the advanced society. It is the individual that makes the difference and we need to recognize that through constitutional means and design a means of administering the public that promotes and protects the individual. This is not a matter of political-economical disposition as in some ideological struggle between capitalism and communism, it is simply a matter of the right of individual verses the right of the state.

Our society needs to be predicated upon the individual and all of the rights that relate to the individual.

I really can't disagree with you or eyeball... you make very good points. I don't know how strongly I feel about the idea of government... maybe how government has worked, at least in my lifetime, but not government as a whole. Anyway...

How do you define "advancement of society"? I mean, there are a few different directions that we could advance, none of which, to my knowledge, are mutually exclusive though. For example, advances in standard of living (and then how do you define that), advances in human interaction (meaning resolving conflicts in a way that doesn't lead to killing each other)... the list could go on. How does empowering the individual, or dis-empowering the government lead to these advancements... whatever your chosen direction(s) of advancement is/are?

Jerry J. Fortin · October 11, 2008

The advancement of society means the progression of freedom and peace to the advantage of the individual. Standards of living and costs of living are mere measures of the success of that society and the cost of doing so. The advancements that most citizens would agree with would be improvements to education and health care, reductions in taxation, increases in employment and enhanced democracy.

Kitch · October 11, 2008

The advancement of society means the progression of freedom and peace to the advantage of the individual. Standards of living and costs of living are mere measures of the success of that society and the cost of doing so. The advancements that most citizens would agree with would be improvements to education and health care, reductions in taxation, increases in employment and enhanced democracy.

From my viewpoint, some of those things you listed would be advanced by empowering the individual while others would be affected negatively.

Enhanced democracy... for sure! That includes all the 'accountability, secrecy-prevention' stuff that eyeball was talking about. I'm on board.

Education and health care? I don't know. I don't disagree... I really don't know. Could you explain?

Jerry J. Fortin · October 11, 2008

Improving our educational system would involve enhancing the existing system by altering the scholastic year providing less time off in the summer and instead rescheduling that time off throughout the year in a series of breaks. In other words schools open all year long. In addition the studies needs to reflect aptitude and provide alternatives. By this I mean that arts, sports, and trades need to be added in order to provide opportunity for those less able to take advantage of the regular studies. Schools represent the ideal place to base community recreational facilities and need to be accessible all year long.

In terms of health care, the system needs to be revised in order to provide accessible care within the community on a 24/7 basis, and once again the schools are the ideal place to place these kinds of facilities. Health care needs to be delivered outside of hospitals where far too many people go to see doctors. The cost of seeing a doctor at a hospital are many times more expense from an emergency room than they are in a community centre. There are two factors working against us with health care, that is cost and delivery. A way must be found to reduce costs and improve delivery. Having said this, delivery is more complicated than merely training doctors especially considering that the reality is such that nurses do more of the actual work than the doctors do. Training all of the professionals in the field is indeed a factor and must be carefully considered. There is another component hiding in the details and that is effective diagnosis. To that end there are many new types of equipment available that we have far to little of to accomplish the tasks at hand. So with regards to health care more is indeed better.

Radsickle · October 12, 2008

Economics is not rocket science. Governments require taxes from Incomes and taxes on purchasing and property.
In times of Economic strain, Business taxes have to go up to compensate for what these greedy business/corporations have done to the economy. You don't reward these pricks with lower taxes.

Hooeh. Although I would say all taxes could go down if a carbon tax were introduced instead.

Argus · October 12, 2008

Hooeh. Although I would say all taxes could go down if a carbon tax were introduced instead.

All taxes could go down if a carbon tax were introduced? Why? Will the carbon taxes you pay not count as taxes?

whowhere · October 12, 2008

Life is all about choices. Life is an experience to be realized through those choices made. In our modern times those choices have been determined to belong to the individual not the group and certainly not the government. Governments, that is organized administration for groups are the root cause of nearly all of our problems. The only solution to those self created and imposed problems is to reform governments in order to provide the empowerment of citizens through the exercise of free choice.
If we desire to advance the social evolution of mankind we need to realize the significance of the individual. The individual is the paramount consideration for the advanced society. It is the individual that makes the difference and we need to recognize that through constitutional means and design a means of administering the public that promotes and protects the individual. This is not a matter of political-economical disposition as in some ideological struggle between capitalism and communism, it is simply a matter of the right of individual verses the right of the state.

Our society needs to be predicated upon the individual and all of the rights that relate to the individual.

Actually, we have that now. It's called the Rule of Law. When the laws are understood they act as a platform of progession. The Charter grants freedom of speech. So, I have little concern of my door being kicked in by the police for what I say. As for individual freedoms that's where it ends. What we have is Government/Political Corruption. The government has an army of police officers which do more to harass people going about their lives than ensuring people's rights are protected under the law. The fact is Canada lack's integrity. All we have is trough feeding bureacrats and politicians that will put themselves first before ensuring things are getting done properely.

For Capitalism to work, requires the rule of Law. When the rule of law is broken the econonomies buckle under the ensueing corruption of the politicians and bureacrats. What you have is bureacrats/politicians pandering to greedy corporations and trampling on the individual. When this happen you have is a society of tyranny. That is the face of Canada. Corporations and businesses know they can abuse people and get away with it because the laws means shit to the bureacrats so long as they get their government handout.

whowhere · October 12, 2008

Life is all about choices. Life is an experience to be realized through those choices made. In our modern times those choices have been determined to belong to the individual not the group and certainly not the government. Governments, that is organized administration for groups are the root cause of nearly all of our problems. The only solution to those self created and imposed problems is to reform governments in order to provide the empowerment of citizens through the exercise of free choice.
If we desire to advance the social evolution of mankind we need to realize the significance of the individual. The individual is the paramount consideration for the advanced society. It is the individual that makes the difference and we need to recognize that through constitutional means and design a means of administering the public that promotes and protects the individual. This is not a matter of political-economical disposition as in some ideological struggle between capitalism and communism, it is simply a matter of the right of individual verses the right of the state.

Our society needs to be predicated upon the individual and all of the rights that relate to the individual.

Actually, we have that now. It's called the Rule of Law. When the laws are understood they act as a platform of progession. The Charter grants freedom of speech. So, I have little concern of my door being kicked in by the police for what I say. As for individual freedoms that's where it ends. What we have is Government/Political Corruption. The government has an army of police officers which do more to harass people going about their lives than ensuring people's rights are protected under the law. The fact is Canada lack's integrity. All we have is trough feeding bureacrats and politicians that will put themselves first before ensuring things are getting done properely.

For Capitalism to work, requires the rule of Law. When the rule of law is broken the econonomies buckle under the ensueing corruption of the politicians and bureacrats. What you have is bureacrats/politicians pandering to greedy corporations and trampling on the individual. When this happen you have is a society of tyranny. That is the face of Canada. Corporations and businesses know they can abuse people and get away with it because the laws means shit to the bureacrats so long as they get their government handout.

whowhere · October 12, 2008

You clearly don't understand what an economy is. You're talking about government budgets as if that was the economy.
.

Uhm, okay, comrade. That must be it. Except that as you have no idea what an economy is how do you expect us to accept your simplistic world view about what causes recessions - which is another term you don't seem to understand.

I can tell you are an idiot.

You drive to your job with a Car you paid GST AND PST on. You fill the Car up With Gas which you pay GST and fuel Taxes. At your job you pay Income Taxes. At your home you pay Property and Education Taxes. Away from After your Job you purchase things and you pay GST/PST on.

The Higher your Income the more taxes you pay.

The more income you make the more expensive your Car and the more GST/PST paid.

The more income you make the more expensive your house and the resulting Property and

Education Taxes you pay on it.

If businesses and corporations are engaging in actions to throw taxpayers out of their employment in turn driving income and consumption taxes down the government is to make up the short fall by increasing taxes on Businesses and corporation to such cripling levels they will get the message to not eff with the economy with their greed.

Jerry J. Fortin · October 12, 2008

Canada is a special case, one not well understood by its own citizens let alone the rest of the world.

Canada has become a vassal nation of the United States for a number of reasons, and yet our people still believe they are free. Foreign interests dominate our industries, and foreign interests dominate our policies. Our very culture is subject to the approval of organizations outside of Canada.

We stand at a crossroads, and the decisions made over the next few days will impact this nation for years to come.

Kitch · October 12, 2008

Canada is a special case, one not well understood by its own citizens let alone the rest of the world.
Canada has become a vassal nation of the United States for a number of reasons, and yet our people still believe they are free. Foreign interests dominate our industries, and foreign interests dominate our policies. Our very culture is subject to the approval of organizations outside of Canada.

We stand at a crossroads, and the decisions made over the next few days will impact this nation for years to come.

That sounds like NAFTA talk! And I, for one, knowing only a little bit about the agreement and it's consequences, would LOVE to see it go!

Did you know that an American corporation can sue the Canadian government for passing ANY... ANY legislation that prevents the corporation from making money? I read, not too long ago, about the Canadian government banning some substance because of some negative affects to people's health, and the American pharmaceutical company, sure enough, sued the Canadian government. I don't know the result, but it's just ridiculous that it can happen!

But I digress!

Argus · October 12, 2008

I can tell you are an idiot.

I'm surprised you can tell time without a talking Sesame Street watch to help you.

You drive to your job with a Car you paid GST AND PST on. You fill the Car up With Gas which you pay GST and fuel Taxes. At your job you pay Income Taxes. At your home you pay Property and Education Taxes. Away from After your Job you purchase things and you pay GST/PST on.
The Higher your Income the more taxes you pay.

The more income you make the more expensive your Car and the more GST/PST paid.

The more income you make the more expensive your house and the resulting Property and

Education Taxes you pay on it.

I pay taxes, yes. And this is relevant in some way to what?

If businesses and corporations are engaging in actions to throw taxpayers out of their employment in turn driving income and consumption taxes down the government is to make up the short fall by increasing taxes on Businesses and corporation to such cripling levels they will get the message to not eff with the economy with their greed.

So let me see if I've got this right: you think that we should punish our business and manufacturing industries with crippling taxes because the financial services industry in the US got greedy and made some really dumb investments and loans. Have I got that right, genius? Paranoid delusional at all? Taking meds maybe?

whowhere · October 12, 2008

I'm surprised you can tell time without a talking Sesame Street watch to help you.
I pay taxes, yes. And this is relevant in some way to what?

So let me see if I've got this right: you think that we should punish our business and manufacturing industries with crippling taxes because the financial services industry in the US got greedy and made some really dumb investments and loans. Have I got that right, genius? Paranoid delusional at all? Taking meds maybe?

Suffering From Dementia? Lose your job einstein and see how fast you start to slip behind on your mortgage, car payments, etc, etc. In todays North American economy it is very easy to lose a good job but immensly hard to replace that job given the challenges inflicted by the bureacratic and politically corrupt.

I worked for a multinational corporation where the office boasted it made 15 million profit on 50 million in Revenue. I was hired into a department that didn't make money but was a cost to the company. This company brought in a prick from another office on a work permit and he became responsible for the budget of my department. His solution to saving money was to outsource my work or reallocate it to other offices. This prick was there long enough to screw me out my employment. I know there are those on this forum who applaud this because they see it as getting rid of the "dead weight".

I went to not paying all the taxes I mentioned and in turn increasing this company's profit to 15 million and 50 thousand. So your logic is to reward this company with lower taxes???

You are indeed an effing idiot and dumbass tard. Harper Economics at its finest.

capricorn · October 12, 2008

You are indeed an effing idiot and dumbass tard. Harper Economics at its finest.

There is no need for such language here.

Argus · October 13, 2008

(whining about you losing your job deleted)
You are indeed an effing idiot and dumbass tard. Harper Economics at its finest.

And yet, I know what an economy is, and what the term "recession means.

And you don't.

You just want to punish business because you lost your job.

Edited October 13, 2008 by Argus

Oleg Bach · October 13, 2008

Money is a belief system - a religion..it is up to you to be positive. If you want to hear what I think the liberals did to Canada I will tell you now - Liberal appointed feminist eccentric hench person judges - have destroyed the family. The Family Service Act that was meant to protect the traditional family of man woman and child was trampled upon by the liberals. The redefined family as woman child and a husband called the state. Liberal lefties want control of your children and wives- but they do not love them and just use them to employ thousands of corrupt lawyers and social working agents that serve not the child or family - but themselves - I witnessed this nasty predisposition amongst liberals when I assisted my brother in the courts...Five years of diligent work and observation - form the lowest court to the Supreme court - All I saw was liberal policy and a refraining from judging what was right or wrong....My original family in old Russia was all but destroyed by the left...I was not about to stand by and watch the lefties in Canada destroy my brother and his children - so I fought them for five years and shamed them - all of them lied - And I embarassed them to the highest level.

Mad_Michael · October 13, 2008

I hear a lot of talk about the Liberal party of Canada being the cause of a lot of financial problems.

What problems? Can you be specific?

Did the nasty Liberals (from the opposition backbenches) cause the mortgage crisis in the USA? Did they cause Iceland's banks to collapse? Did the Liberals cause Fortis in Belgium to collapse or AIG to dabble in derivatives trading?

Wow.

Oleg Bach · October 13, 2008

When there is a healthy union between a man and woman - mini empires form. There is nothing or earth as powerful as that union and their offspring. Liberals bring about strife between the sexes which brings about social collapse. The sad part about it is the fact that rich conservatives are opportunist and thrive on using stupid liberals as henchmen and woman..both are to blame.

Mad_Michael · October 13, 2008

When there is a healthy union between a man and woman - mini empires form. There is nothing or earth as powerful as that union and their offspring. Liberals bring about strife between the sexes which brings about social collapse. The sad part about it is the fact that rich conservatives are opportunist and thrive on using stupid liberals as henchmen and woman..both are to blame.

So the support of the Liberal Party of Canada for official recognition of same-sex marriage caused IndyMac, Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, AIG, Fannie and Freddie Mac to collapse?

Am I missing something here?

Oleg Bach · October 13, 2008

So the support of the Liberal Party of Canada for official recognition of same-sex marriage caused IndyMac, Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, AIG, Fannie and Freddie Mac to collapse?
Am I missing something here?

Firstly same sex marriage has no sex envloved - the liberal re-definition of sex has not been helpful in maintaining the natural order..Give the liberals time and they will attempt to redifine poverty and life and death...as we see in the abortion provider scam...and "child poverty" - which is a silly term - there is no such thing as child poverty - only adult parental poverty...their apporach is dishonest and tears at realtiy - this avoidance of reality by the liberal mind has instilled a moral neutrality in the middle management set that is ambitions amoral lazy and greedy - YES - I would say that the moral climate and revisionism spear headed by liberals playing god is to blame to some degree - A man or woman is only as valuable as their word - and lieing is part of liberality - Liberalism was supposed to liberate not enslave - conservatism was by original design meant to conserve what works - frankly - liberals did the dirty work while the clever conservatives in America stood by and enriched themselves though the debasement of humanity.. <_<

Mad_Michael · October 13, 2008

Firstly same sex marriage has no sex envloved - the liberal re-definition of sex has not been helpful in maintaining the natural order..Give the liberals time and they will attempt to redifine poverty and life and death...as we see in the abortion provider scam...and "child poverty" - which is a silly term - there is no such thing as child poverty - only adult parental poverty...their apporach is dishonest and tears at realtiy - this avoidance of reality by the liberal mind has instilled a moral neutrality in the middle management set that is ambitions amoral lazy and greedy - YES - I would say that the moral climate and revisionism spear headed by liberals playing god is to blame to some degree - A man or woman is only as valuable as their word - and lieing is part of liberality - Liberalism was supposed to liberate not enslave - conservatism was by original design meant to conserve what works - frankly - liberals did the dirty work while the clever conservatives in America stood by and enriched themselves though the debasement of humanity..

It would appear I'm definitely missing something here. Thanks for the confirmation.

TCCK · October 14, 2008

As a owner of a Nationwide business (except Quebec) in Canada I am thrilled Harper is in charge during these rough economic times. Dion and the Liberals would spend us into the worst economic downturn in Canadian history. The NDP would also spoend us into a blackhole and scare away ALL foriegn investment and business. The Greens well lets just say the Stone Age would be a nicer time.

Harper has his head on straight, he is thinking not only of businesses, foriegn investment but also of the individual and he will keep the country on track as best possible with all the other nations around us going down the sh*tter.

Big Business making money means more jobs, more foriegn investment, more people working and paying into the National Tax pool, more money for the governmetn to do the things that the individuals wwant them to do for the country!

To believe anything else you must be drinking the crap the Liberals, NDP or Green Party are trying to pass off as Kool-Aid and it's gonna kill you and the country if you drink it!!

Kitch · October 14, 2008

What problems? Can you be specific?
Did the nasty Liberals (from the opposition backbenches) cause the mortgage crisis in the USA? Did they cause Iceland's banks to collapse? Did the Liberals cause Fortis in Belgium to collapse or AIG to dabble in derivatives trading?

Wow.

Did you actually read what I said? I don't think you did or else you wouldn't be saying what you just said to me.