Alberta Liberals consider name

[jdobbin]

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Edmonton/2...04/6979796.html

Alberta’s Liberals are talking about rebranding and even changing the party’s name in hopes of renewing voter interest after losing virtually half their seats to Premier Ed Stelmach’s Tory juggernaut in the March 3 election.

I doubt anything will work. The party should disband and the MLAs should ask to join the PC party.

[blueblood]

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Edmonton/2...04/6979796.html

I doubt anything will work. The party should disband and the MLAs should ask to join the PC party.

Should that happen in Manitoba then?

It might work, in Saskatchewan, it worked quite well.

[jdobbin]

Should that happen in Manitoba then?

It might work, in Saskatchewan, it worked quite well.

I think the PCs or NDP would simply want to win those seats rather than have the Liberals join them.

I'd not be comfortable with either the PCs or the NDP as the only two parties but I think it possible that is where things are headed. I probably just wouldn't vote at all.

[Smallc]

I probably just wouldn't vote at all.

You know, you don't have to be that partisan. If there were only two choices, I'm sure you could decide who you like more, or at the very least, who you dislike less.

[jdobbin]

You know, you don't have to be that partisan. If there were only two choices, I'm sure you could decide who you like more, or at the very least, who you dislike less.

It isn't am matter of being partisan as not wanting to endorse either choice. Choosing "none of the above" should be a democratic choice. It is in some countries. It isn't just a case of dislike as it is complete disagreement and lack of confidence in what choices are offered.

[Smallc]

It isn't am matter of being partisan as not wanting to endorse either choice. Choosing "none of the above" should be a democratic choice. It is in some countries. It isn't just a case of dislike as it is complete disagreement and lack of confidence in what choices are offered.

I find that hard to believe, because as a card carrying Liberal, the Manitoba NDP reflects the values of the Federal party that I supported up till recently almost to a T. The Manitoba Liberal party doesn't.

On your suggestion that we should be able to vote none of the above, we actually can in Manitoba elections. I think that right should be extended to the provinces that don't currently allow it and should be extended to Federal Elections also.

[jdobbin]

I find that hard to believe, because as a card carrying Liberal, the Manitoba NDP reflects the values of the Federal party that I supported up till recently almost to a T. The Manitoba Liberal party doesn't.

Yes, I've heard your suggestion that the Liberal platform was somehow more left than the NDP. That is a view I've not heard from too many other people. In fact, their platform was widely acknowledged to be far better than the Tory platform, much more fiscally responsible than the NDP and more innovative overall. The problem for the Liberals provincially was that Gerrard is just not as charismatic as Doer.

I find it hard to believe that someone with Liberal leanings thinks that Gerrard is left of Doer. He isn't. You would have to explain to me in detail why you think so. Your perception does not reflect the policies.

Doer is superstar. Watch him work a room and women swoon and men want to shake his hand and ask him how he thinks the Bombers will do this year. I've seen it many times.

Will the next NDP leader be able to do that? Hard to say. Some of the NDP governance like that of what led to the demise of Crocus leads me to believe that the party might not nearly be as popular.

I would not, will not vote for a party that let Crocus happen and have dragged their feet year after year over it. I've lost money and so have a lot of others because they were incompetent or didn't care. Private investment is still hard to get for start up businesses in the province.

Doer is a populist. His personal popularity carries the party in many ridings. The legislative agenda has been fairly light even when they have a majority. They depend on transfer payments to make budget decisions, they sit fewer days than almost any legislature, they have made disastrous investments in private businesses and they bleed Crown corporations for money to donate to pet projects or to fund government operations rather than to Crown investments.

I like Doer but the government is risk adverse. The economic performance has not directly been because of the superior governance. It has been driven by a recovery of resources and from large transfer payments.

I could point to a few areas of success. I was able to do the same thing with the PCs but I found both parties seem to hold a lot of contempt for the electorate. The Tories showed that by trying to fund a First Nations party that wreaked of corruption. The NDP have shown their contempt by not having committee meetings and by having the legislature meet few times in the year.

On your suggestion that we should be able to vote none of the above, we actually can in Manitoba elections. I think that right should be extended to the provinces that don't currently allow it and should be extended to Federal Elections also.

You cannot vote for none of the above. You can't. You can refuse your ballot which is ambiguous.

Like many Manitobans, I would probably just drop out of the political process. Many don't vote because they don't know or don't care. I'd not vote because I do know and do care and don't like the choices and would not endorse a party simply because it was the best of the worst.

[Smallc]

Yes, I've heard your suggestion that the Liberal platform was somehow more left than the NDP. That is a view I've not heard from too many other people. In fact, their platform was widely acknowledged to be far better than the Tory platform, much more fiscally responsible than the NDP and more innovative overall. The problem for the Liberals provincially was that Gerrard is just not as charismatic as Doer.

I find it hard to believe that someone with Liberal leanings thinks that Gerrard is left of Doer. He isn't. You would have to explain to me in detail why you think so. Your perception does not reflect the policies.

Doer is superstar. Watch him work a room and women swoon and men want to shake his hand and ask him how he thinks the Bombers will do this year. I've seen it many times.

Will the next NDP leader be able to do that? Hard to say. Some of the NDP governance like that of what led to the demise of Crocus leads me to believe that the party might not nearly be as popular.

I would not, will not vote for a party that let Crocus happen and have dragged their feet year after year over it. I've lost money and so have a lot of others because they were incompetent or didn't care. Private investment is still hard to get for start up businesses in the province.

Doer is a populist. His personal popularity carries the party in many ridings. The legislative agenda has been fairly light even when they have a majority. They depend on transfer payments to make budget decisions, they sit fewer days than almost any legislature, they have made disastrous investments in private businesses and they bleed Crown corporations for money to donate to pet projects or to fund government operations rather than to Crown investments.

I like Doer but the government is risk adverse. The economic performance has not directly been because of the superior governance. It has been driven by a recovery of resources and from large transfer payments.

I could point to a few areas of success. I was able to do the same thing with the PCs but I found both parties seem to hold a lot of contempt for the electorate. The Tories showed that by trying to fund a First Nations party that wreaked of corruption. The NDP have shown their contempt by not having committee meetings and by having the legislature meet few times in the year.

You cannot vote for none of the above. You can't. You can refuse your ballot which is ambiguous.

Like many Manitobans, I would probably just drop out of the political process. Many don't vote because they don't know or don't care. I'd not vote because I do know and do care and don't like the choices and would not endorse a party simply because it was the best of the worst.

Well, I suppose its your opinion, and in many ways, your loss. There is always a choice, as you can't really be completely happy or unhappy with any part, its almost impossible.

Also, I personally have heard many people talk about how the NDP and Liberals seem to be reversed in this province. Their populist ideas are something that most people can like or at least not dislike. That is an area that usually belongs to the Liberals, but because of the things they talk about during elections in this province (things that don't often matter to the middle class worker) they have almost no traction.

Edited October 5, 2008 by Smallc

[jdobbin]

Well, I suppose its your opinion, and in many ways, your loss. There is always a choice, as you can't really be completely happy or unhappy with any part, its almost impossible.

Not looking for complete happiness but I'm not looking to endorse two political positions that I don't accept just to say I voted.

Also, I personally have heard many people talk about how the NDP and Liberals seem to be reversed in this province. Their populist ideas are something that most people can like or at least not dislike. That is an area that usually belongs to the Liberals, but because of the things they talk about during elections in this province (things that don't often matter to the middle class worker) they have almost no traction.

If you are looking for a populist, vote for Doer. I take a look at the policies and they have consistently made some terrible ones. The investment in call centers, internet pharmacies and the hog industry have largely been a waste. Their lack of oversight over Crocus has choked liquidity for business start-ups. The dependence on transfer money to fund programs means that we are not ever looking to become a "have" province.

Many people who are liberal minded have voted for Doer the man rather than NDP policies. I certainly don't dispute his popularity. However, I don't ever make the mistake of thinking they are a Liberal based on what we have seen of their platform.

[blueblood]

Not looking for complete happiness but I'm not looking to endorse two political positions that I don't accept just to say I voted.

If you are looking for a populist, vote for Doer. I take a look at the policies and they have consistently made some terrible ones. The investment in call centers, internet pharmacies and the hog industry have largely been a waste. Their lack of oversight over Crocus has choked liquidity for business start-ups. The dependence on transfer money to fund programs means that we are not ever looking to become a "have" province.

Many people who are liberal minded have voted for Doer the man rather than NDP policies. I certainly don't dispute his popularity. However, I don't ever make the mistake of thinking they are a Liberal based on what we have seen of their platform.

I seriously think a name change might do some good. The Saskatchewan Party is an example, and the ADQ came to be a powerplayer in Quebec.

Doer's hog moratorium has really angered the rural community and the next election he could lose two prominent cabinet ministers. If there ever was a time for a new centrist MB party, the time is next election. I would consider voting for a centrist option if the tories mess up, if it didn't have the name Liberal attached to it.

[fellowtraveller]

The Liberals in AB need, first, a chaismatic leader.

They have had a series of blandoids and duds.

[jdobbin]

The Liberals in AB need, first, a chaismatic leader.

They have had a series of blandoids and duds.

It wouldn't matter who was leader in Alberta. It wouldn't matter how charismatic or qualified. It doesn't matter if there is a name change.

Alberta will have a Tory government now and long into the future.

[Hydraboss]

Exactly correct. It wouldn't matter if you called the Liberals the "Giving Away Free Money Party", they would simply be known as the "old Liberal party".

Alberta will be PC (unfortunately!) until it's people take their heads out of their asses and decide to finally endorse a right-wing party. Ed "the liberal/NPD'er" Stelmach is a massive disgrace to this province and should be booted out on his ear.

" The Liberals in AB need, first, a chaismatic leader.

They have had a series of blandoids and duds."

No, first they would need a platform that doesn't consist of "we're not them".

[fellowtraveller]

It wouldn't matter who was leader in Alberta. It wouldn't matter how charismatic or qualified. It doesn't matter if there is a name change.

Alberta will have a Tory government now and long into the future.

That would be true if it wasn't so wrong. But, you are used to that and so are we. The only fact in your post is that "Alberta will have a Tory government now ". You must have heard the last election results to make such a bold prediction.

The last decent leader the provincial Liberals had was Lawrence Decore, in the 90s. He won 32 seats and could well have won the next election if the party had not been intent on self destructing. Which they did, and Decore died a few years later. Could easily happen again, with a quality leader. For some reason, they keep electing utter muppets, one after another.

[jdobbin]

That would be true if it wasn't so wrong. But, you are used to that and so are we. The only fact in your post is that "Alberta will have a Tory government now ". You must have heard the last election results to make such a bold prediction.

The last decent leader the provincial Liberals had was Lawrence Decore, in the 90s. He won 32 seats and could well have won the next election if the party had not been intent on self destructing. Which they did, and Decore died a few years later. Could easily happen again, with a quality leader. For some reason, they keep electing utter muppets, one after another.

I remember Decore well. While popular, he still didn't have a chance.

Why would anyone run for any other party in Alberta? If you are smart, have good policies and a well run organization, it would still likely take decades to build. Not exactly attractive to a potential leader. No, I suspect we will see no change in the governing party of Alberta for decades to come yet.

[Mr.Canada]

Jdobbin, I think everyone should vote. I don't care who they vote for or if they vote for my guy or not. Supporting the process is what's important not who anyone votes for.