Tenant told to remove election sign or face eviction

[Renegade]

Campaigns signs OK for tenants: Elections Canada

A day after Elections Canada said landlords have the right to prevent tenants from putting up election signs in their apartment windows, the agency backtracked, saying tenants do have that right.

Elections Canada made the statements following a CBC News story about Marilyn Dumont, an Edmonton woman who said she received a letter from her landlord saying she would be evicted within 14 days if she didn't remove the sign from her apartment window by Wednesday.

"What I have is a signed letter from the landlord saying that I need to take the sign down and that we're not allowed to post signs inside or outside of the premises," she said.

CBC Story

This is an interesting case. On one hand doesn't the landlord have the right to assign to the tenant only a subset of his property rights (in this case the right to occupy, but not the right to use the property as a billboard)? On the other hand, the tenant is in no way damaging the property by posting the signs and if prohibited from posting is denied freedom of speech.

I am aware that it is illegal for a landlord to prohibit a tenant from posting political signs, but should it be?

[eyeball]

I am aware that it is illegal for a landlord to prohibit a tenant from posting political signs, but should it be?

No, it infringes on a person's right to free association and speech.

10$ says her landlord is voting for Harper and 20$ says a bunch of Conservative supporters will soon be in here supporting the landlord.

[guyser]

Put a frame around it and call it art. If one can hang a dogs playing poker and not be evicted then....

[capricorn]

We own a condo apartment and the only signs permitted on our window and patio doors are real estate for sale signs, as is stated in our by-laws. So, no political signs. If I wanted to sue over this I would have to take on the Condo Board of Directors. So in fact, I would be suing myself since the condo fees I pay would be used to pay the Board's legal fees.

Edited October 2, 2008 by capricorn

[guyser]

We own a condo apartment

Different kettle of fish. You agreed to those rules,which by the way are easily struck down, but they say nothing of hanging a sign inside the window an inch do they>

The tenant has a lease, assuming (uh oh) that it is a standard lease, nothing will prevent her from doing so.

[YEGmann]

I think that the most remarkable point here is Election Canada has no clue about the Canada Election Act.

That means we cannot trust them in their interpretation of "in and out scheme".

[Renegade]

No, it infringes on a person's right to free association and speech.

Doesn't prohibiting advertising also infringe on a person's freedom of speech? Why can a landlord prohibit advertising by not electoral signs?

The other point is that people give up their rights of freedom of speech all the time. For example many workplaces prohibit political signage as part of the conditions of employment. If the person willingly undertakes a contract which gives up their freedom of speech, why should the government intervene?

[eyeball]

I think I must have misread your original question Renegade.

I am aware that it is illegal for a landlord to prohibit a tenant from posting political signs, but should it be?

Yes, it should be illegal for a landlord to prohibit political or more specifically, election signs. Conversely it should be perfectly legal for tenants to put up an election sign.

Sure this is a form of advertising but not in the conventional sense. I'm quite certain a simple rule could be written that states election signs can go up on the date the election is called and that the signs must come down when the election is over. Reasonable size limits could also be put in place to ensure people on top floors for example don't unfurl 10 story banners.

Like I said, I'm betting this is a case of a landlord that doesn't share the views of his tenant and is enforcing a rule out of sheer pettiness and spite simply because he/she can. Its very easy to imagine some anal pinch-faced dweeb saying something like; "Its the rules. The rules are the rules and the rules must be followed". The reason we're being saddled with so many stupid rules is because we constantly have to account for and accomodate stupid people.

From what I've seen of the way some of my neighbours behave its clear that many people deliberately go out of their way to find whatever silly thing they can to make life miserable for others. Its really telling that these people seem to have no trouble finding a bureaucrat when they need one.

[Oleg Bach]

All a landlord is - is a tenant. The landlord in eccence rents from the bank (mortgage) ...then rents to the so-called lower tenant. This landlord should have absolutely no authority over his tenant politically. He can not tell you who to support and vote for nor can he tell you to observer public neutrality. He has no right to ask you to put up a sign nor take down a sign. Besides what the hell is it to this landlord whether he be a small private operator or a large corporate highrise type - It's simply not the idiots buisness what the tenants express! How is it effecting him if there is a political sign? I do not see the landlords point of view...it seems he is being intrusive. To say to a tenant "do what I say or I will make you homeless does show his choice of party - The Draconian party.

[Bryan]

I think that the most remarkable point here is Election Canada has no clue about the Canada Election Act.

That means we cannot trust them in their interpretation of "in and out scheme".

No matter which side of that issue you support, that's probably still true.

[Oleg Bach]

Much like a judge that has no clue about the Charter Of Rights. It is stunning how our bureaucrats are ignorant of proper proceedure and law.

[Renegade]

All a landlord is - is a tenant. The landlord in eccence rents from the bank (mortgage)

No quite incorrect. The landlord holds title to the property. The only thing the landlord rents from the bank is money. The bank can and does enforce stipulations which the landlord is forced to follow.

This landlord should have absolutely no authority over his tenant politically. He can not tell you who to support and vote for nor can he tell you to observer public neutrality. He has no right to ask you to put up a sign nor take down a sign. Besides what the hell is it to this landlord whether he be a small private operator or a large corporate highrise type - It's simply not the idiots buisness what the tenants express! How is it effecting him if there is a political sign? I do not see the landlords point of view...it seems he is being intrusive.

The landlord has property rights. He only assigns a subset of those property rights to the tenant. In this case the right to occupy the unit. Why should the landlord be forced to also assign the right of using his property as advertising space (because essentially isnt that what electon signs are)?

To say to a tenant "do what I say or I will make you homeless does show his choice of party - The Draconian party.

Actually perhaps what the landlord is saying is: "do what you agreed to do when you signed the lease or move out".

[eyeball]

Why should the landlord be forced to also assign the right of using his property as advertising space (because essentially isnt that what electon signs are)?

Essentially, yes, conventionally, no.

So it looks like we will need yet another law to control the landlords after all. Bring it on I guess.

[Renegade]

Yes, it should be illegal for a landlord to prohibit political or more specifically, election signs. Conversely it should be perfectly legal for tenants to put up an election sign.

In my view the government should avoid interfering in a private contract between individuals. It seems that landlords are subject to no end to rules about what they can or cannot do with their own property. Usually those rules are from provincial bodies, in this case it is from the Election Act.

Like I said, I'm betting this is a case of a landlord that doesn't share the views of his tenant and is enforcing a rule out of sheer pettiness and spite simply because he/she can. Its very easy to imagine some anal pinch-faced dweeb saying something like; "Its the rules. The rules are the rules and the rules must be followed". The reason we're being saddled with so many stupid rules is because we constantly have to account for and accomodate stupid people.

Pesonally I think it is irrelevant why the landlord wants the sign down. Would you feel any differnt if the tenant were hanging "white power" and Nazi signs?

[Renegade]

So it looks like we will need yet another law to control the landlords after all. Bring it on I guess.

eyeball, why do you think it is ok to force landlords to permit freedom of expression on their property but not employers. (or do you think that employees should also be allowed to post political signs?)

[eyeball]

eyeball, why do you think it is ok to force landlords to permit freedom of expression on their property but not employers.

Why are you dragging employers into this, are you deliberately trying to be anal? I think people should be allowed to express their political support with an election sign at their residence during an election, its that simple. My town has some pretty strict rules about what sort of signs people can post on their residences, especially in the case of people who run a home-based business. These rules however do not restrict temporary election signs. If someone like this landlord came along no doubt a bunch of people would have to roll their eyes and knuckle down and re-write the rules to account for this moron.

(or do you think that employees should also be allowed to post political signs?)

Only if the employer started posting their election signs all over the lunchroom and worksite.

Edited October 3, 2008 by eyeball

[eyeball]

Pesonally I think it is irrelevant why the landlord wants the sign down.

Me too.

Would you feel any differnt if the tenant were hanging "white power" and Nazi signs?

The only things I'd feel towards this ridiculous red herring are and

[Oleg Bach]

That herring certainly was red.

[Renegade]

Why are you dragging employers into this, are you deliberately trying to be anal? I think people should be allowed to express their political support with an election sign at their residence during an election, its that simple.

You seem to favour the right of freedom of expression. The reason I bring employers into it is to undestand why you would be favour of allowing freedom of expression in one case but not the other. Is your non-response an attempt to be deliberately obtuse?

[Renegade]

Only if the employer started posting their election signs all over the lunchroom and worksite.

You mean something like the landord who started postig signs all over his property? Hmm, there seems to be no indication that the landlord did that.

[Renegade]

That herring certainly was red.

Let me translate it for those obtuse enough not to understand the implication. Does the content of the sign make any difference whether free expression should be allowed? If it does, what content is permissable and what is not?

[Oleg Bach]

Looks like the landlord takes himself to seriously - perhaps the banks that hold his mortgage should step in and post THEIR political preference. After all like I said- there is no real land lord other than the bank in our feudal society.

[eyeball]

Let me translate it for those obtuse enough not to understand the implication.

What implications? The one's you're making up on the fly?

Does the content of the sign make any difference whether free expression should be allowed?

In the case of an election, yes.

If it does, what content is permissable and what is not?

Official party election content should be permissable, Good Eats at Joe's shouldn't.

[eyeball]

You mean something like the landord who started postig signs all over his property? Hmm, there seems to be no indication that the landlord did that.

So why go places where issues don't exist? This is about a temporary election sign in a window for crying out loud, not a scene out of Minority Report where holographic advertizing jumps into people's faces at every turn. You and your landlord really need to get a grip.

[Oleg Bach]

What it was in the window? I guess putting a flag up as a curtain would be a no no also. Put it this way - If the tenant stood on his balcony and yelled out to passer bys " Vote liberal" - would the land lord go get a gag order from the courts?...I don't get it.